The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

Original post by Hariex
Is it wrong and socially toxic to tell Christians that their beliefs are wrong and socially toxic?


There's an inherent difference between homosexuality and sexual orientation in general, and one's faith.
Original post by Hariex
There's such a thing as a wrong interpretation. It's easy to view the Bible as you would a text in English Literature - with the view that there is no right answer. Personally I disagree with this. Whenever formulating a doctrine it must be consistent with the Bible as a whole. So a fellow Christian might propose that we should adhere to the strict Levitical codes. He can't be wrong - he whips out Matthew 5:17 and is ready to fire cherry-picking allegations. All is well until we examine other parts of the Bible like Romans, Galatians and the OT prophecies which examine the law more closely and provide a bit more perspective.

Admittedly there will be passages which will remain cloudy for a long time, but I think a case can be made that all essential doctrines of Christianity are not 'open to interpretation'. Simply because there are many conspiracy theories surrounding the 9/11 attacks does not mean we can pick one of them and be assured that it is 'right'. Same goes for the Bible.


How can you disagree with the fact the Bible offers no right answer when it both contradicts itself across the text and is a collation of stories for metaphorical effect? Yes, there is such a thing as an incorrect interpretation but only in your opinion, is any one interpretation wrong.

I swear you have presented one argument in the first paragraph and completely contradicted it in the second. In the first you argue that the Bible is not open for interpretation and many things can be seen as an intrinsic truth whilst then going on to argue that not any one thing can be assured to be correct. What? :s-smilie:

The only bit I agree with you on is that fact that you must adhere to all if you want to use the Bible as a means of arguing a case at all.
Because they have been taught from a young age to hate and those in later life think their religion gives them immunity from ridicule, criticism or dislike. This wall of arrogance is reinforced by the disproportional level of favouritism afforded to Western Christianity, backed up through law, education, entertainment and social conventions. Some don't even realise that they are nothing but right wing social conservatives who just happen to believe in magic and non-political believers are granted special licences to commit gross bigotry (often rhetorical) because of bull****, AKA religious freedom laws and conventions, with little impunity. This is not helped due right wing politicians being obviously natural allies and the more left wing being soft Liberals ironically being themselves so PC in so much as they dare not challenge the disproportional level of favouritism afforded to Western Christianity, too worried about not tolerating the intolerant. Not realising that this is a weakness exploited by their enemies. This would doom the next generation if it was not for us millennials (15 - 30s) seeing Christianity and the major religion in general for what it really is, an antiquated form of regulating society. I am happy to be living in the era of it's steady decline in Europe and North America. Long may it continue, because it deserves as much respect as the Greek or Norse religion.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 63
Original post by 2ne1Aaron
Lol thank you,I got it from a k-pop girl group called 2ne1,I like there songs.

Aha I know ^^ I'm into Kpop as well
My ideal reply to anyone who argues that homosexuality is an abomination is that Jesus had two dads, yet he turned out alright...
Original post by Lulu24
If you're suggesting that the bible has changed, and the law of the bible does not apply to todays world. Surely you are no longer following the word of God, instead you are following the evolved version of the bible which has been changed by humans. So you're no longer following any devine revelation? What are you doing then? You might as well be reading a B&Q leaflet and calling it gospel.

It's also very interesting how christians love to be selective with the bible as opposed to taking things holistically, there's orthodox and then there's orthoprax. Orthodox is about your belief in Christianity, and then Orthoprax is about practicing the religion. Not doing homosexuality comes under orthroprax as does loving they neighbour, and loving God is a branch of Orthodox which is about beliefs. The two should not be conflated to say that one justifies sins.


Firstly "not doing homosexuality" what is that supposed to mean?
Secondly, is it so bad that I don't stone people to death but instead chose the option that would not involve killing but turning the other cheek? The bible contradicts itself. Is it so wrong that I chose to follow the side that is positive?
I'm not "picking and choosing" I hate that expression. There are different types of Christians (Catholics included) conservatives, fundamentalists and liberals. It's basically a giant spectrum of your belief of the bible. Fundamentalists and conservatives beliving that everything in the bible is pure truth if it says seven days it means seven days. Again, I reiterate, I'm a liberal and I feel that the bible is a collection of stories teaching us how to live our life through parables for example seven days are seven units of time and we just don't know the units.
And yes I would pick up a B&Q manual and call it gospel because gospel means truth. I think saying that their plank of wood is £7.99 per meter is quite truthful.
Finally I end on this. May faith is not perfect and I would never say it was. I eat pork and shellfish, wear fabrics sewn with two materials and engage in "homosexual acts" however I don't kill people,worship false gods or dishonour my mother and father. That may be classed as picking and choosing but can you compare not eating pork to murder?
Surely he who has not sinned can throw the first stone.
But I love all my neighbours and I understand (to an extent) where you are coming from. I can only hope instead of critiquing my faith you look to see all the good things I do with it.

I'm not proof reading this because you kind of worked me up a little, so please excuse any mistakes.
Reply 66
Original post by 2ne1Aaron
And yet even if it is a test,it doesn't explain why so many gay people try conversion therapies from churches, and in fact it ruins their lives,for most,and even if some said gay conversion therapies worked for them,they could be possibly covering it up to impress.


If God has deemed you to have this test, how can you get rid of it? At what point did God say Tests were temporary?
Reply 67
Original post by ivybridge
Most of this is okay because it's your opinion but that last line - I'm sorry NO. Do not downplay what it is like to be a closeted homosexual, just don't. And there are ALWAYS justifications for suicide - speaking from someone who made several attempts to kill himself beginning at the age of 11, I can tell you now that you have to be in one seriously dark place to contemplate ripping your life from your hands and any reason one has is good enough for them at that time.

This is where people like you go a bit too far - have your opinion but don't comment on things like that in such an ignorant manner. If you have had experience, fair enough but I'm judging simply on what you said and I highly doubt you have. You cannot judge things like that without having some experience in such situations - you can only hazard a guess but you come across way too assertive.



I understand. I'm sorry if i offended you, but this is about different perspective. As a religious person, there is always "a light at the end of the tunnel" Optimism, is a part of religion. Therefore, to us, there is never a justification for suicide. It is the most apparent show of ungreatfulness to God, because it's a waste of life. It's basically saying "Thanks for giving me life, but no thanks."
Reply 68
Original post by OliveMonty
Firstly "not doing homosexuality" what is that supposed to mean?
Secondly, is it so bad that I don't stone people to death but instead chose the option that would not involve killing but turning the other cheek? The bible contradicts itself. Is it so wrong that I chose to follow the side that is positive?
I'm not "picking and choosing" I hate that expression. There are different types of Christians (Catholics included) conservatives, fundamentalists and liberals. It's basically a giant spectrum of your belief of the bible. Fundamentalists and conservatives beliving that everything in the bible is pure truth if it says seven days it means seven days. Again, I reiterate, I'm a liberal and I feel that the bible is a collection of stories teaching us how to live our life through parables for example seven days are seven units of time and we just don't know the units.
And yes I would pick up a B&Q manual and call it gospel because gospel means truth. I think saying that their plank of wood is £7.99 per meter is quite truthful.
Finally I end on this. May faith is not perfect and I would never say it was. I eat pork and shellfish, wear fabrics sewn with two materials and engage in "homosexual acts" however I don't kill people,worship false gods or dishonour my mother and father. That may be classed as picking and choosing but can you compare not eating pork to murder?
Surely he who has not sinned can throw the first stone.
But I love all my neighbours and I understand (to an extent) where you are coming from. I can only hope instead of critiquing my faith you look to see all the good things I do with it.

I'm not proof reading this because you kind of worked me up a little, so please excuse any mistakes.


You're allright lol. I'm not one of those types to pick on peoples spelling and grammar lol, mine is far from perfect.

I see where you're coming from but in my opinion religion is hollistic, what's more there are different depths to different sins. I am not saying I do not sin, but what I don't do is advertise my sins. This is where the issue lies.

In regards to christianity, if you think about it logically, how will someone know you've lay with another man or another women? It's only if you go around telling it then they will know, under this circumstances, you will be punished for it.

Turning the other cheek is to let sin spread. It doesn't mean you should go around killing people. That's not what i'm saying, but i think you should condemn bad things when you see bad things. I also think one shouldn't air their dirty laundry. If you are pious, and you are ashamed of disobeying God, you wouldnt air your sins in front of the world.
Reply 69
Original post by Lulu24
If God has deemed you to have this test, how can you get rid of it? At what point did God say Tests were temporary?



Jesus had a test for 40 days of fasting?Is that temporary to to you?The man who lost everything but reclaimed everything back,is that temporary to you?but yet people are still struggling with their sexual orientation for years,and even conversion therapies can't still do the most.I know tests through God,is going to be permanent within our lives,but at the same time it should not really emphasize on 1 subject matter.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 70
I am also a Christian and although I cannot speak for others I have no ill will whatsoever towards homosexuals. I may not be a supporter of homosexuality but that does not affect how I treat anybody around me.

Why? Because of these two readings:

Matthew 7:1-2 (KJV)
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Luke 6:41 (NIV)
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

It hurts when people automatically assume that just because I am Christian I must be a bigoted homophobe, I strive to show love and tolerance to anyone no matter their background (it's a bit harder to do so with murderers etc. but there is no similarity whatsoever between such an extreme group of people and homosexuals).

And without sounding too cliché, yes I have had friends who I did not know were LGBT and once I was told, there was no change to our friendship because they were still the same people no matter their sexual preference.
Original post by Lulu24
You're allright lol. I'm not one of those types to pick on peoples spelling and grammar lol, mine is far from perfect.

I see where you're coming from but in my opinion religion is hollistic, what's more there are different depths to different sins. I am not saying I do not sin, but what I don't do is advertise my sins. This is where the issue lies.

In regards to christianity, if you think about it logically, how will someone know you've lay with another man or another women? It's only if you go around telling it then they will know, under this circumstances, you will be punished for it.

Turning the other cheek is to let sin spread. It doesn't mean you should go around killing people. That's not what i'm saying, but i think you should condemn bad things when you see bad things. I also think one shouldn't air their dirty laundry. If you are pious, and you are ashamed of disobeying God, you wouldnt air your sins in front of the world.


If you don't mind me asking, what would you classify your faith as?
I only say my sexuality, which I must admit is Pansexual if I'm honest, because people ask. I have never been condemned for my sexuality by any religious figure. I don't go out wearing shirts that say "Hey! I don't look at people's gender when I like someone". And I think that's because I'm a conserved person. But asides from my horrendous sexuality issues I don't sin that often and I defiantly don't air them to the world. I just pray to God for forgiveness. That kind of is gods main thing. Forgiveness. Even if I wasn't forgiven it wouldn't stop me from loving who I love OR from following the bibles teachings.
I'm very confused why you say turning the other cheek lets sin spread. I've studied that passage and the interpretation I received was literally "if someone slaps you, don't slap them back and essentially forgive them." And finally when you say I think you should condemn bad things. What gives you the right to condemn does that right not only reside with God? Hence "only he who is without sin can cast the first stone"
To be honest a lot of the things you are referencing are from the Old Testament so in a sense you are also "picking and choosing" for ignoring the teachings of Jesus (who is also God if you forgot)
Reply 72
we don't hate homosexuals lets look at Satan he did not go for the naked Adam but went for naked the Eve. My question is why did he do thatA
Reply 73
Original post by 2ne1Aaron
Jesus had a test for 40 days of fasting?Is that temporary to to you?The man who lost everything but reclaimed everything back,is that temporary to you?but yet people are still struggling with their sexual orientation for years,and even conversion therapies can't still do the most.I know tests through God,is going to be permanent within our lives,but at the same time it should not really emphasize on 1 subject matter.


Sorry, i meant to say "all" tests were temporary. As you so rightly pointed out, the 40 day fast of jesus was a 40 day test. His life as a prophet, was a lifetime test. Tests come in different shapes and sizes, but at the end of the day each one is a test. It's not about conversion at all so what are you banging on about ?
Original post by Hariex
There is no biblical justification for hating homosexuals. 'Love the sinner, hate the sin' and all that.


"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” Leviticus 18:22.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11


Bible calls then unrighteous and a bunch of other things too. People who believe the Bible is the word of God believe homosexuals (particularly male homosexuals) are 'bad'. In simple terms homosexuality is described as an innate dimension of personality. Timothy 1:10 "The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine"

Latest

Trending

Trending