The "Is this university/course good enough for banking/consultancy?" thread [part 2]
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Banking can be really hard to get into I've heard, something like a 10% chance to get into stage 1 of 3 before an interview! My friend had so much problems trying to get into finance and business that she had to get help from companies who specialise in it :/ if you have good education behind I think
Banking and Consulting are probably both tricky to get into. I think at the end a lot comes down to networking and demonstrating interest in the field. So getting into a good Uni and then join the right student societies to demonstrate interest is a good first step which will increase your likelihood for internships and ultimately offers.
Hello all,
I kind of want to demystify and clear the air about what I have seen in this forum. I am currently working at a BB in GM (yes, getting bored on the we hence here!) and I actively participate in the review of applications for campus recruitment and interview some candidates.
(1) Being from a target university helps
PARTIALLY TRUE
Many factors of the reason why, I think the biggest being that employees push HR to recruit students from the university they went to. And since it's always been the classic Oxbridge + Imperial + LSE, it is just a circle of recruitment that happens with these universities that still stands today. There are dynamics in play, for example I would say Warwick and UCL are definitely more popular than they used to be, Imperial is getting to the same level as Oxbridge in terms of prestige, and recruitment of non-target students is definitely much greater than it used to be due to outreach programs.
Secondly, interns from these universities do perform better *on average*, because they have acquired really good skills from their degrees such as independent thinking, innovative mind, coding, or just being very able when things become technical. They are also generally universities where students are overworked, giving them an irl teaser trailer of banking life
(2) The course doesn't really matter as long as it is a good university
FALSE
While it may be the case for some desks, the industry is getting more and more complex and therefore we pay more attention to the actual degree.
After, it really depends on the role. In a specialised IB sector team, degree will count - otherwise it doesn't really. For the drugs companies for example, it will definitely be a plus to be doing a biology degree. In IBD, there isn't really a specific course/uni combo target because everything is learnt on the job (and modifying PowerPoints is not rocket science
) - they are more looking for personable skills as relationships matter immensely in IBD. You need to be presentable to a client, withstand the physical and moral difficulty of long hours ("it's a marathon not a sprint" kind of mentality), have great relationships with managers internally to be successful, process a great deal of information efficiently. You don't need to know how to build the best model, because chances are the bank probably already has one super fine-tuned before you joined (but you do need to know the basics of a model of course).
In markets, some FO roles are very technical and will only consider STEM graduates even for sales (think securitised loans or equity derivatives, both where the big £ are these few last years on the public side). What I can say with absolute certainty is that for a trading role, a Physics graduate from a 'semi' target is going to be much more valued than a History graduate from Oxford. For a sales role, probably the reverse (but sales get paid less than traders/structurers once you get quite senior, think millions of $ vs ~$500k for best performers; at analyst level no big difference). What we look for then are the skills. For GM, it is now *close* to being a requirement knowing how to code Python or C++. Based on the last interning class in GM (trading/structuring) in my bank and competing banks, I would say STEM Oxbridge + Imperial are in very high demand because we know that on average we will get a good intern that will have a stellar performance (in £ terms) once joining as a graduate.
(3) Only UK universities are target
FALSE for IBD, PARTIALLY TRUE for GM
In IBD I would say there are a lot of people that did MBAs or Masters from the big business schools - and would even go to say European schools are as popular as UK schools. Please, do not look at the "rankings", they are absolute rubbish. Literally close to no one in banking did schools like Esade. I think the big bulk in EMEA comes from INSEAD, LBS, HEC, ESSEC, LSE, Oxbridge, Imperial, Bocconi, ESCP Europe,... Might be missing a couple of obvious ones, notably in Germany.
In GM, yes it's 90% UK universities, it's not a patriotic thing, it's just that in general UK degrees are much more technical and more mathematically oriented, which is a better fit to the typical GM profile. We did try to add some European business school interns in GM for the last few years but they generally tend to be the worst performers because they were technically limited (no coding or no understanding of formulas of complex payouts). The remaining 10% I would say is from European engineering schools (think top French engineering schools).
(4) Apply as early as possible
PARTIALLY TRUE
As long as you apply before mid/end September for London, it's ok. Much better to spend July and August preparing really good applications in order to apply in September than apply in July and completely botch it. When I mean preparing, I mean get reviewed several times by alumni, finance society, by a potential mentor etc. I think best times to apply are April/May for NYC, September for London; for the following year internship.
(5) When you get to the interviews, uni doesn't matter
PARTIALLY TRUE
If I have two really good interviews but I need to make a decision, it will boil down to resume/skills, so uni (but I'd rather say degree/course here more than uni) could play still. However, in normal circumstances it is a true statement.
I kind of want to demystify and clear the air about what I have seen in this forum. I am currently working at a BB in GM (yes, getting bored on the we hence here!) and I actively participate in the review of applications for campus recruitment and interview some candidates.
(1) Being from a target university helps
PARTIALLY TRUE
Many factors of the reason why, I think the biggest being that employees push HR to recruit students from the university they went to. And since it's always been the classic Oxbridge + Imperial + LSE, it is just a circle of recruitment that happens with these universities that still stands today. There are dynamics in play, for example I would say Warwick and UCL are definitely more popular than they used to be, Imperial is getting to the same level as Oxbridge in terms of prestige, and recruitment of non-target students is definitely much greater than it used to be due to outreach programs.
Secondly, interns from these universities do perform better *on average*, because they have acquired really good skills from their degrees such as independent thinking, innovative mind, coding, or just being very able when things become technical. They are also generally universities where students are overworked, giving them an irl teaser trailer of banking life
(2) The course doesn't really matter as long as it is a good university
FALSE
While it may be the case for some desks, the industry is getting more and more complex and therefore we pay more attention to the actual degree.
After, it really depends on the role. In a specialised IB sector team, degree will count - otherwise it doesn't really. For the drugs companies for example, it will definitely be a plus to be doing a biology degree. In IBD, there isn't really a specific course/uni combo target because everything is learnt on the job (and modifying PowerPoints is not rocket science
) - they are more looking for personable skills as relationships matter immensely in IBD. You need to be presentable to a client, withstand the physical and moral difficulty of long hours ("it's a marathon not a sprint" kind of mentality), have great relationships with managers internally to be successful, process a great deal of information efficiently. You don't need to know how to build the best model, because chances are the bank probably already has one super fine-tuned before you joined (but you do need to know the basics of a model of course).In markets, some FO roles are very technical and will only consider STEM graduates even for sales (think securitised loans or equity derivatives, both where the big £ are these few last years on the public side). What I can say with absolute certainty is that for a trading role, a Physics graduate from a 'semi' target is going to be much more valued than a History graduate from Oxford. For a sales role, probably the reverse (but sales get paid less than traders/structurers once you get quite senior, think millions of $ vs ~$500k for best performers; at analyst level no big difference). What we look for then are the skills. For GM, it is now *close* to being a requirement knowing how to code Python or C++. Based on the last interning class in GM (trading/structuring) in my bank and competing banks, I would say STEM Oxbridge + Imperial are in very high demand because we know that on average we will get a good intern that will have a stellar performance (in £ terms) once joining as a graduate.
(3) Only UK universities are target
FALSE for IBD, PARTIALLY TRUE for GM
In IBD I would say there are a lot of people that did MBAs or Masters from the big business schools - and would even go to say European schools are as popular as UK schools. Please, do not look at the "rankings", they are absolute rubbish. Literally close to no one in banking did schools like Esade. I think the big bulk in EMEA comes from INSEAD, LBS, HEC, ESSEC, LSE, Oxbridge, Imperial, Bocconi, ESCP Europe,... Might be missing a couple of obvious ones, notably in Germany.
In GM, yes it's 90% UK universities, it's not a patriotic thing, it's just that in general UK degrees are much more technical and more mathematically oriented, which is a better fit to the typical GM profile. We did try to add some European business school interns in GM for the last few years but they generally tend to be the worst performers because they were technically limited (no coding or no understanding of formulas of complex payouts). The remaining 10% I would say is from European engineering schools (think top French engineering schools).
(4) Apply as early as possible
PARTIALLY TRUE
As long as you apply before mid/end September for London, it's ok. Much better to spend July and August preparing really good applications in order to apply in September than apply in July and completely botch it. When I mean preparing, I mean get reviewed several times by alumni, finance society, by a potential mentor etc. I think best times to apply are April/May for NYC, September for London; for the following year internship.
(5) When you get to the interviews, uni doesn't matter
PARTIALLY TRUE
If I have two really good interviews but I need to make a decision, it will boil down to resume/skills, so uni (but I'd rather say degree/course here more than uni) could play still. However, in normal circumstances it is a true statement.
Original post by Trapz99
Saw that the thread ended so started a new one.
FAQs:
Which universities are the best for banking?
Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Imperial and Warwick (in no order) are typically targeted more by banks. After this, Nottingham, Bristol, Durham, Bath, Loughborough, Manchester, Cass and some other ones are semi-targets.
Which degree course is the best for banking?
Doesn't matter at all. You can go into banking with a classics or music degree as much as from an economics or maths degree.
If you ask one of these aforementioned questions, I will egg your house/apartment.
FAQs:
Which universities are the best for banking?
Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Imperial and Warwick (in no order) are typically targeted more by banks. After this, Nottingham, Bristol, Durham, Bath, Loughborough, Manchester, Cass and some other ones are semi-targets.
Which degree course is the best for banking?
Doesn't matter at all. You can go into banking with a classics or music degree as much as from an economics or maths degree.
If you ask one of these aforementioned questions, I will egg your house/apartment.
What about Scottish unis?
Original post by Trapz99
No you need a degree to get into front office banking but it doesn't matter what degree you do- whether it's maths or economics or history of physics or computing, it doesn't matter.
You don't really need any work experience. Maybe do some in Year 12/13 by going to insight days but you don't need much. Focus more on extracurricular activities such as sports, volunteering, prefect, student council, music or anything that interests you which will help you to gain soft skills like teamwork or leadership etc...- which is what banks look for.
It's extremely hard to get a banking job. Around 50+ candidates for every internship place- many of whom will be of extremely high calibre- so it's definitely very hard to get into but it's possible.
You don't really need any work experience. Maybe do some in Year 12/13 by going to insight days but you don't need much. Focus more on extracurricular activities such as sports, volunteering, prefect, student council, music or anything that interests you which will help you to gain soft skills like teamwork or leadership etc...- which is what banks look for.
It's extremely hard to get a banking job. Around 50+ candidates for every internship place- many of whom will be of extremely high calibre- so it's definitely very hard to get into but it's possible.
I agree. You do need a degree to start in a higher role and earn a higher salary. This way you can go for graduate roles rather than apprenticeships and then you will have your degree forever for when you want to move on to other companies rather than just a couple of years of experience.
Planning on studying at Kings College London, worried it's only a semi-target. Economics and Management. It's the highest rated uni out of the ones I've applied for. Is it a high semi-target or a low semi-target?
Original post by Zoe__
Hello, I’ve got an offer for Southampton Economics I’m not sure weather to take it or take a gap year and then apply to Warwick and Bristol. Is there a large difference in my ability to get a banking job between having a degree from Southampton and eg. Warwick??
YES
Ops on BSc finance from Durham for Sales and Trading (particularly Sales)
Would a Bachelor's in Business management from QMUL then a Masters in Investment banking from St Andrews be good enough?
Original post by TheSchizoprenic
Would a Bachelor's in Business management from QMUL then a Masters in Investment banking from St Andrews be good enough?
St Andrews Masters course sounds like a mickey mouse degree, plus it's not even a target at the masters level (or the bachelors level to be honest). Go to a better university if you have to do a Masters (LSE, LBS, Oxford).
How would I fare with a BSc in Banking and Finance from Middlesex University with an MSc in Investment Banking from St. Andrews university?
Also, which would you go to, Durham, Bristol, Leeds or St. Andrews for masters.
Also, which would you go to, Durham, Bristol, Leeds or St. Andrews for masters.
Original post by TheSchizoprenic
How would I fare with a BSc in Banking and Finance from Middlesex University with an MSc in Investment Banking from St. Andrews university?
Also, which would you go to, Durham, Bristol, Leeds or St. Andrews for masters.
Also, which would you go to, Durham, Bristol, Leeds or St. Andrews for masters.
Hello, The Schizoprenic
My name is Rebecca I am a student ambassador for Middlesex University. Thank you for your question.
You may want to consider applying for a second MSc as you may be eligible. You can see our entry requirements from our website here We usually require a lower second (2:2) undergraduate degree or equivalent in accounting, business economics, finance, or economics
Students with an undergraduate degree with an applied quantitative element in the field of statistics, mathematics, engineering, physics, computing or science will also be considered.
We accredit prior experiential learning and welcome mature applicants with suitable life skills and work experience
https://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/banking-and-finance
I hope this helps if you have any more questions feel free to message me. 😊
Check out this article on why your university track record doesn't matter that much: https://clover-guide-ef2.notion.site/The-Misconception-That-Good-Grades-Are-Enough-88e9a990aaa34a4980861505d99af174
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by TheSchizoprenic
Planning on studying at Kings College London, worried it's only a semi-target. Economics and Management. It's the highest rated uni out of the ones I've applied for. Is it a high semi-target or a low semi-target?
same concern!! i'm still in the process of applying, but yeah
Original post by gr8wizard10
warwick
Original post by heythereitsmee
Thanks ! Any idea how it’s reputation is in the banking industry ?
higher than manchester
I have an offer for A&F at Durham. I am able to transfer into either the Accounting BSc or Finance BSc depending on the modules I pick if needs be. Is it feasible for me to break in with either of these degrees or am I at a disadvantage?
Original post by thelifeofpabl0
I have an offer for A&F at Durham. I am able to transfer into either the Accounting BSc or Finance BSc depending on the modules I pick if needs be. Is it feasible for me to break in with either of these degrees or am I at a disadvantage?
higher chance to do so with finance. thing is, A&F is already good for banking, so it's not like you need to transfer at all
Original post by thelifeofpabl0
I have an offer for A&F at Durham. I am able to transfer into either the Accounting BSc or Finance BSc depending on the modules I pick if needs be. Is it feasible for me to break in with either of these degrees or am I at a disadvantage?
pretty much all the same degree a&f is fine
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