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Laith
They do occasionaly look back at mocks
OK. Let's assume they do look at GCSE mocks. How on earth are you supposed to tell the uni what you got in the mocks. You can't in the UCAS form. They will not ask the school.
Also please explain to me how they'd get over the difficulty that would arise from inconsistant standards and assesment. They are not public exams and it's entirely down to the school how they go about organising mocks (some don't, some may just use a combination of coursework and other forms of assesment rather that traditional exams).
I think with personal statement, references, interviews, A-levels and entrance examinations and, yes, GCSEs, they have enough.
They'd start looking at extra-curriculars long before they look a GCSE mocks (and they don't look at ECs).
Sorry, I know you guys were having a bit of fun with Laith, but there's some scary misinformation that might worry prospective applicants, so I'm going to do the "right" thing and pick up where River85 left off. 
********. One of my closest friends from school is currently studying Medicine at Oxford, and he has a Double Science GCSE.
Plenty of schools don't offer individual sciences, so it would be hardly fair if Oxford and Cambridge just dismissed students out of hand for something they have no control over.
Oh dear - so you know better than the admissions tutors at Oxford and Cambridge which students do and don't deserve their places? Please.
Why on earth do you think Oxford and Cambridge bend over backwards to incorporate interviews, admissions tests and written work into their admissions procedure? Could it possibly be because they don't value GCSEs very highly?
If GCSEs really were such a useful way of differentiating between candidates, why would these universities exert themselves (and spend a considerable sum) on the above decision-making aids?
You do realise that most of the people you were talking to have far more experience of the system than you do, don't you? I'm slightly perplexed as to how you, at your age, can assume authority on something you won't even get a chance to experience for another few years.
Also, most people avoid parading the extent of their vocabulary on forums such as TSR, fortunately - because it's not exactly conducive to flowing conversation. Said people quite probably have powers of articulation that far outstrip your own; they just recognise that certain styles of communication aren't particularly appropriate in this kind of arena.
Did you read that part on the Cambridge website where it stated that some successful candidates have no A*s at all? I think that sort of disproves your point a bit.
Yes, GCSEs help to an extent, but they really aren't half as important as you seem to think.
People get in with C-grades here and there every year. The aforementioned friend studying Medicine had a C in one of his GCSEs and - shock, horror - an E in another. So please stop perpetuating this nonsense about flawed grades automatically precluding applicants.
No, they really don't. No referee, unless s/he was completely arse-backwards, would bother to mention mock results of his/her own volition.. and the universities themselves really don't have the time or the inclination to go chasing up mock results when they have many more effective decision-making aids at their disposal.
That's some nice circular logic you've got going on there. Can you not grasp that someone might try to better your future (by encouraging you to do well in your GCSEs) without that automatically meaning that your GCSEs and all associated mocks are so unbelievably important that they eclipse the worth of your A-levels (which you suggested earlier)? Besides... despite what you might like to think, your future is not the only thing your school cares about - schools have league tables and reputations to think of, too.
Contrary to your last point, GCSEs will make little or no difference to your "future life" - far more consequential is the degree you eventually obtain and, to a lesser extent, your A-levels.
Hope that clears a few things up.
Laith
Double Science doesn't count. You cannot do DS for medicine there, for example.
********. One of my closest friends from school is currently studying Medicine at Oxford, and he has a Double Science GCSE.
Plenty of schools don't offer individual sciences, so it would be hardly fair if Oxford and Cambridge just dismissed students out of hand for something they have no control over.
Laith
With crap GCSEs and without at least 6 A*s, you don't really deserve being there (unlesss warranted by going to a crap school etc).
Oh dear - so you know better than the admissions tutors at Oxford and Cambridge which students do and don't deserve their places? Please.
Why on earth do you think Oxford and Cambridge bend over backwards to incorporate interviews, admissions tests and written work into their admissions procedure? Could it possibly be because they don't value GCSEs very highly?
If GCSEs really were such a useful way of differentiating between candidates, why would these universities exert themselves (and spend a considerable sum) on the above decision-making aids?
Laith
Rather no. I am only 15 and I seem to have a larger range of vocabulary than you, did all my GCSEs at least 1 year early, straight A*s, 5 top fives.
You do realise that most of the people you were talking to have far more experience of the system than you do, don't you? I'm slightly perplexed as to how you, at your age, can assume authority on something you won't even get a chance to experience for another few years.
Also, most people avoid parading the extent of their vocabulary on forums such as TSR, fortunately - because it's not exactly conducive to flowing conversation. Said people quite probably have powers of articulation that far outstrip your own; they just recognise that certain styles of communication aren't particularly appropriate in this kind of arena.
Laith
For goodness sake? A) You are lying and B) If so, what is the point of GCSEs? If you got all Cs or Bs or maybe even As would they let you in? No.
Did you read that part on the Cambridge website where it stated that some successful candidates have no A*s at all? I think that sort of disproves your point a bit.
Yes, GCSEs help to an extent, but they really aren't half as important as you seem to think.
People get in with C-grades here and there every year. The aforementioned friend studying Medicine had a C in one of his GCSEs and - shock, horror - an E in another. So please stop perpetuating this nonsense about flawed grades automatically precluding applicants.
Laith
And also, they look at mocks to see how you performed the first time.
No, they really don't. No referee, unless s/he was completely arse-backwards, would bother to mention mock results of his/her own volition.. and the universities themselves really don't have the time or the inclination to go chasing up mock results when they have many more effective decision-making aids at their disposal.
Laith
Because it is true, and why would someone dump un-necessary work on someone?
Anyway, getting all A*s must give some sort of advantage in uni and future life, no?
Anyway, getting all A*s must give some sort of advantage in uni and future life, no?
That's some nice circular logic you've got going on there. Can you not grasp that someone might try to better your future (by encouraging you to do well in your GCSEs) without that automatically meaning that your GCSEs and all associated mocks are so unbelievably important that they eclipse the worth of your A-levels (which you suggested earlier)? Besides... despite what you might like to think, your future is not the only thing your school cares about - schools have league tables and reputations to think of, too.
Contrary to your last point, GCSEs will make little or no difference to your "future life" - far more consequential is the degree you eventually obtain and, to a lesser extent, your A-levels.
Hope that clears a few things up.
I agree with Pitselah.
Good to see no-one's taking themselves too seriously.
I like how everything he's said contradicts my experience. (<6A*, Double Science, Mocks
, Cs at GCSE and AS, average UMS and good schooling). It should be illegal to be this wrong.
btw, 15 years old after early GCSEs and (at least) one year at IB? Likely....
It's people like this that get us branded as anti-social geeks who do nothing but cram for exams. But hats off to the guy for proving that GCSEs aren't a good indicator of intelligence.
I like how everything he's said contradicts my experience. (<6A*, Double Science, Mocks
, Cs at GCSE and AS, average UMS and good schooling). It should be illegal to be this wrong.btw, 15 years old after early GCSEs and (at least) one year at IB? Likely....
It's people like this that get us branded as anti-social geeks who do nothing but cram for exams. But hats off to the guy for proving that GCSEs aren't a good indicator of intelligence.
Laith
Just because you guys did crap at them 
You're wrong because the people here under-performed at GCSE? Stunning logic.
The truth of the matter is, you're a highly disrespectful and superfluously impolite kid who feels it necessary to lace his points with poison in order to convey an argument. I've just recently read over the last few pages of posts and must admit that I find your general tone nauseating.
GCSE grades simply aren't as important as you have been lead to believe, or, indeed, wish to believe. Of course, they are substantial to some extent (they are considered in the admissions process and provide those with great grades a moderate, if not significant, advantage) but by no means make or break an application.
This has been shown to you time and time again, with quotes from admissions officers, subject tutors, current Oxbridge students, current Oxbridge offer holds and the Oxford and Cambridge websites themselves. It's been proven incontrovertibly and yet still you refuse to accept it - preferring to embrace the inanely unfounded views of someone who, in all honesty, appears to be a highly manipulative and untrustworthy headmaster (coincidentally, the stance you've taken also benefits you). This, to me, suggests an arrogance and raw stupidity almost unfathomable.
I really hope you'll either learn to accept veracity when it's staring you in the face or cease to burden this thread with your hideously obtuse conclusions.
Thanks.
EDIT: Can we leave it now, please? This thread is meant to be a place for swift and informative response, not cluttered debate.
It wouldn't do any harm. Probably not essential.
It would definitely be preferred.
Laith
Yes, GCSEs are very important, as we have concluded, and why would these guys even bother to respond to the thread if they weren't? Even the OP is using his GCSE marks as a basis, as are many of the responses, which say things such as 'You need roughly 6 A*s as a rule of thumb'.
GCSEs are important, otherwise why is there so much hype about them? Show me a straight C student in Oxbridge. Oh wait, you can't.
GCSEs are important, otherwise why is there so much hype about them? Show me a straight C student in Oxbridge. Oh wait, you can't.
Yes I can:
http://www.oxbridge-admissions.info/profiles-show.php?w=365
http://www.oxbridge-admissions.info/profiles-show.php?w=671
Laith
One of them has an A, another has 6 Bs.
You have made numerous posts in this thread suggesting that anything other than A*s are looked at disdainfully by Oxbridge admissions tutors. These cases still provide clear counter-examples to your 'argument'.
Laith
Yes, GCSEs are very important, as we have concluded, and why would these guys even bother to respond to the thread if they weren't?
"We" have concluded nothing of the sort; it's a conclusion you seem to have arrived at all by yourself. "These guys" bother to respond to this thread because unfortunately, people with no experience of Oxford/Cambridge admissions whatsoever perpetuate annoying myths about the overwhelming importance of GCSEs, thus causing other potential applicants to worry. If you haven't already noticed, try to now: we reassure the majority of candidates that their supposedly inferior GCSEs should not be a hindrance to their success.
Even the OP is using his GCSE marks as a basis, as are many of the responses, which say things such as 'You need roughly 6 A*s as a rule of thumb'.
The OP of this thread is a she. Assuming Helenia did make that comment (I can't see it anywhere - could you point it out?), can you not understand the concept of "rule of thumb"? Yes, successful applicants on average have five or six A*s at GCSE. However.. many, many applicants have far fewer. We (well, most of us) are talking from experience here - so it's honestly a little bit ridiculous that you're claiming to know better.
GCSEs are important, otherwise why is there so much hype about them? Show me a straight C student in Oxbridge. Oh wait, you can't.
It's quite amusing how you've gone from insisting that applicants should have "full A*s" to stating that no Oxbridge student has straight Cs, as if those are equivalent statements. Are you not aware of the broad spectrum of grade combinations in between 10 A*s and 10 Cs?
There's so much "hype" about them for you, right now, because you have little or no experience of anything more challenging. Your school has made a fuss about GCSEs because they wanted you to perform well (as I pointed out earlier - for their own ends, as well as yours). If you were to look back at the comments you're making in two or three years, I promise you'd laugh - or at least feel quite embarrassed - by the naivety of it all.
Laith
One of them has an A, another has 6 Bs.
So we've gone from 6A*s to 0As?
I think we can all conclude that having good GCSEs means there's a low chance of getting in, whereas having weak GCSEs mean there's a minimally lower chance. In either case it's probable you'll get rejected. But GCSEs just aren't the tool they use to determine rejection/acceptance. You'll see the one with 6Bs and 4Cs dropped out of sixth form and ended up at Oxford. Just shows that people can improve intellectually to huge extents in a short period of time.
Laith
A grade C is not good performance in my book.
Maybe not to you. A*-C are considered "good" GCSE passes. Getting a C is still average and shows general competence of a subject. The quoted section, as far as I'm aware, specifically mentions that a C or above is OK.
Whether you think it's a good grade or not is up to you. Personally I couldn't care.
Tyler Durden
Personally, I wish he would leave. His poor grammar is degrading this thread.
EDIT: Just received reputation: Are my GCSE/AS grades g... 08-08-2008 10:58 Laith That was stupid, like you. I think the Laith guy is right .
It appears he now talks about himself in the second person.
EDIT: Just received reputation: Are my GCSE/AS grades g... 08-08-2008 10:58 Laith That was stupid, like you. I think the Laith guy is right .
It appears he now talks about himself in the second person.
He also mysteriously ignored my request via PM to repeat whatever he wanted to say to me (he's quoted me, but whatever he said must have been deleted).
Guess he's afraid to repeat whatever it was via a more personal method of communication!Anyway.. regarding GCSE requirements, I suppose I should point out that neither Oxford nor Cambridge make any official requests.
From the Cambridge site:
Matriculation requirements
In previous years, the University has had minimum entrance requirements for all applicants, known as matriculation requirements. These included the need for a qualification in English, a language other than English, and a mathematical/scientific subject. These requirements have been abolished from 2009 entry onwards.
In previous years, the University has had minimum entrance requirements for all applicants, known as matriculation requirements. These included the need for a qualification in English, a language other than English, and a mathematical/scientific subject. These requirements have been abolished from 2009 entry onwards.
From the Oxford site:
Entrance requirements
Oxford University is happy to receive applications from students from any country in the world providing that they are studying for, or have already achieved, three A-Levels or other equivalent academic qualifications.
In order to be admitted, candidates must show evidence of an appropriate educational background and good standards of literacy and numeracy. However, the University does not have any formal matriculation requirements, and no requirement for any particular subjects or grades at GCSE, though tutors will use these grades as one indicator of academic ability. All applications are considered carefully on their individual merits and tutors consider academic achievements, predicted grades, candidates’ personal statements and academic references as well as any written work or written test that may be required as part of the application. Candidates who feel that they under-performed at GCSE may be able to compensate for this by demonstrating clear upward progression at AS-level as well as in predicted or achieved A-level scores. You may wish to refer to this in your personal statement.
Oxford University is happy to receive applications from students from any country in the world providing that they are studying for, or have already achieved, three A-Levels or other equivalent academic qualifications.
In order to be admitted, candidates must show evidence of an appropriate educational background and good standards of literacy and numeracy. However, the University does not have any formal matriculation requirements, and no requirement for any particular subjects or grades at GCSE, though tutors will use these grades as one indicator of academic ability. All applications are considered carefully on their individual merits and tutors consider academic achievements, predicted grades, candidates’ personal statements and academic references as well as any written work or written test that may be required as part of the application. Candidates who feel that they under-performed at GCSE may be able to compensate for this by demonstrating clear upward progression at AS-level as well as in predicted or achieved A-level scores. You may wish to refer to this in your personal statement.
Amen.
We can all conclude that GCSEs are a very minor selection tool.
We can all conclude that GCSEs are a very minor selection tool.
Laith
No we cannnot. All you quote is minorities that I am not interested in. The average Oxbridge candidate will have 6 A*s. FACT.
ARGH!
The average Oxbridge candidate may have A*s. However, it doesn't mean that it's a bleedin requirement, does it? Of course they may have a high number of A*s. They attract the best applicants who will usually (but not always) have lots of A*s.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, although they may take GCSEs into consideration they aren't a major factor. They can interview (and may also have admissions tests). This is a big advantage. They therefore don't need to concentrate on GCSE results as some other top unis do.
You're talking rubbish. You've got no idea what you are talking about (do you still think universities take GCSE mock exams into account)? Go away, continue with your studies for a while and come back in five years time (when you've actually been through the process).
Laith
No we cannnot. All you quote is minorities that I am not interested in. The average Oxbridge candidate will have 6 A*s. FACT.
*sigh*
I've given you confirmation from the head of admissions, we've all given evidence from the websites and we've provided several anecdotes all disproving your unfounded ramblings.
Why do you have such a restricted view of everything? You strike me as the sort of person who'll memorise facts and facts and get A*s at GCSE and fail miserably when it comes to A levels because you'll unwilling to consider more than one factor for a problem. Oh well, don't say I didn't warn you. You're very very silly.
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