What support systems are available for LGBT muslims?

That's culturally insensitive.

No it's fine to express your views just be clear that it's your cultural view rather than a fact.

Find me a culture/religion/group of any sort who actually explicitly states that LGBT sexuality does not exist. You're conflating the existence of a trait with whether or not an individual should act upon that trait. Some islam interpretations state that people should not engage in homosexual acts. They don't say that such people who have those tendencies don't exist.

Also I have no where in this thread stated that being wrong is bad. If someone has a different interpretation than me which leads them not to believe my interpretation is a fact then fine. It's a matter of perspective.

Submission.

So, what is actually the "fact" regarding the homosexuality topic that we are discussing?

Ha ha ha. Why should I respect a culture that punishes homosexuality by death, oppresses women and punishes apostasy by death? Just because a culture exists, does not mean I should respect it. Do you respect the culture of cannibals? I do not think so.

I'm claiming that it's culturally insensitive to present something as a fact, even if it is a fact, if there are cultures which have a different view and might be offended.

I don't see how my own behaviour violates this.

I think that if you state a culture is factually wrong then this amounts to claiming that they should agree with you because being factually wrong is not a good thing.

Yes I do.

You should respect other cultures because otherwise we are in danger of a colonialist mindset. In the west we kill way more people than those cultures do with our foreign policy, which profits in its popular support from colonialist attitudes like yours.

I disagree. That sexuality is inherent is a fact. whether you choose to express or act upon your sexuality is a choice, but everyone has a sexuality whether they believe it is wrong or right to live that way.

I believe Joe312 thinks i shout not have stated as fact (which I didn't at any point) that sexuality is inherent and not a conscious choice

I believe Joe312 thinks i shout not have stated as fact (which I didn't at any point) that sexuality is inherent and not a conscious choice

Whst else?

I understand that parts of the Quran (and Bible, etc) say that homosexual acts are wrong, they say nothing of the orientation. But holy books are not the only thing that determines a religious culture. It is a cultural view in many religions, Islam included, that the homosexual orientation is bad. I think Pope Ratzinger called it a 'disorder', for example.

I don't understand your last sentence. You stated earlier that your belief was a fact, but now you say it's just an interpretation, and a matter of perspective? So it's not a fact after all then? Regardless, religious cultures which believe homosexuality is a choice leads to things like conversion therapy and public hangings, which causes suffering. Are you sure that you want to say that being wrong is 'fine', given these are the consequences?

Even though he says that he actually agrees with the statement. This is the bit of his argument i just don't see. He seems to be saying not to speak if it is "culturally sensitive"topic. At no point does he define what he means by culture.
It would also logically suggest that he would in theory keep quiet about other culturally sensitive evils as well- because it might offend that culture!?

I'm not going to debate here - it is not allowed.

You've contradicted yourself now, you clearly did state it was a fact. I've quoted it above.

Why not?

You are right that colonialist, imperialist and capitalist cultures have attempted to impose values on subjugated peoples, to their detriment. But simply saying something is a 'fact' when another culture does not share that belief is not intrinsically colonialist or racist. The key dimension is power. Colonialist, imperialists and capitalists impose damaging ideologies on subjugated cultures by brute force - arms, economics etc. The opinion of a single, anonymous, poster on TSR is not a threat to another culture.

The cultures you purport to be defending aren't delicate flowers which have no defence towards other ideas, or experience of discussion or debate. On the contrary, many are welcoming of insights from other cultures. Polio has only been stopped from crippling and killing thousands across the world because cultures accepted new 'facts' about sanitation and the value of vaccination were shared and accepted, sweeping away traditional beliefs about spirits and withcraft as causative agents/cures.

They are only evil to your culture.

If you want debate, you need to ask for the thread to be moved to a debate forum.