do the super rich bribe unis to let their kids in

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- More likely to come from cultures and backgrounds in which education is highly valued, (given that their parents cared enough about it to pay for private school; many who can afford it still don’t), and hence more likely to be highly ambitious

I mean thats just insulting, my parents didnt send me to private school because they didnt care, its because they couldnt afford it. This is your brain on private school education...

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 21

mnot

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by zynnjah123

has anyone heard of this happening in the uk

Has it happened? Of course. (More recently in the US by abusing athletics recruiting loopholes).

does it happen on any significant level, no. Is it a real issue, not really.

the real benefit of financial resources is leveraging it into resources that improve your application performance rather then rig the system.

Reply 22

Genesiss

Original post by Talkative Toad

Moved to education debate

from which forum. another forum that no one pays attention to

Reply 23

Talkative Toad

Volunteer Team

Original post by Genesiss

from which forum. another forum that no one pays attention to

world politics.

Reply 24

tazarooni89

Original post by Tescosman123

I mean thats just insulting, my parents didnt send me to private school because they didnt care, its because they couldnt afford it. This is your brain on private school education...

Nobody’s saying that your parents didn’t care about your education.

People who don’t send their kids to a private school may well care very much about their education. Or they may not. You get both types.

Whereas parents who do send their kids to private school almost always care about their kids’ education. If they didn’t they’d save their money. Even for most of those who can afford it it’s still a lot of money.

Reply 25

Supermature

Original post by nulli tertius

If I was coaching an oligarch to get their, if not as thick as mince, at least no better than stewing steak, child admitted to Oxford, money no object, I wouldn’t be looking at an undergraduate course. A nice refined private liberal arts college in New England with a few financial pressures would be my first port of call. The major and minors need to be carefully selected to qualify said child for a masters in an undemanding subject at Oxford.

What you are looking for is a not a subject barely hanging on by its fingernails. They only want the really talented student once every three years who in 10 years time is going to replace his seminar leader as Professor of Medieval Burmese.

What you want is a subject that feels at home with the needs of rugger buggers and wetbobs but also has a voracious appetite for swallowing money on expensive high profile rent-a-dons and pointless research institutes. After the MPhil, there should be no problem with proceeding to a doctorate at UCL or Columbia where the nightclubs are better.

Wonderful insight. And so entertainingly put!

Reply 26

Thisismyunitsr

Not often, but there are cases of this happening.

Reply 27

nulli tertius

Original post by Thisismyunitsr

Not often, but there are cases of this happening.

List them, with their dates.

This hasn't happened within the lifetime of current applicants.

Reply 28

skylark2

Original post by Tescosman123

I mean thats just insulting, my parents didnt send me to private school because they didnt care, its because they couldnt afford it. This is your brain on private school education...

It's statistics, though. Lots of bright kids don't go to private schools because their parents can't afford it. But some bright kids who wouldn't otherwise have gone to private schools go because they get scholarships. Thick kids who wouldn't otherwise have gone to private schools still don't go, because they don't get scholarships. (We're talking academic scholarships here, since we're also talking acceptance to highly academically selective universities). And at the top academic private schools, the rich thick kids don't get in either (though they do probably end up at less academically selective private schools rather than state schools, to be fair). So the ratios are different. There are still plenty of bright kids in state schools though.

And, these days, something over 68% of Oxford undergraduates who went to school in the UK went to state schools. No, it's not exactly the same as the proportion in state and private schools, but it's hardly the rich kids' playground with the odd token grammar school kid that you'd think from reading some articles and posts. It hasn't been like that for decades.

Please don't be put off applying to academically elite universities because of the ongoing spreading of ancient urban myths by people who've never been there. Oxford do not give a **** whether you went to private school or not. Really. Not only that, they haven't given a **** for several decades. I say that as a kid from a dump of a comprehensive who went there in the late 1980s.

Reply 29

Thisismyunitsr

Original post by nulli tertius

List them, with their dates.

This hasn't happened within the lifetime of current applicants.

Google 'Toby Young Oxford.'

Reply 30

BarnabyK

Original post by nulli tertius

List them, with their dates.

This hasn't happened within the lifetime of current applicants.

Oh - but it has been attempted.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/01/foreign-office-oxford-gaddafi-son

Reply 31

nulli tertius

Original post by Thisismyunitsr

Google 'Toby Young Oxford.'

Toby Young was admitted in my year, he's a little bit older than me, and that is almost 40 years ago.

Furthermore, Young's father didn't buy him a place; he couldn't afford to. To all intents and purposes he was living on his daily attendance allowance at the House of Lords.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 32

nulli tertius

Original post by BarnabyK

Oh - but it has been attempted.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/01/foreign-office-oxford-gaddafi-son

And (a) despite FCO lobbying he got nowhere (b) this was for a masters' course and (c) this was more than 20 years ago.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 33

BarnabyK

Original post by nulli tertius

And (a) despite FCO lobbying he got nowhere (b) this was for a masters' course and (c) this was more than 20 years ago.

Hence "attempted"...?

Reply 34

nulli tertius

Original post by BarnabyK

Hence "attempted"...?

"Attempted" means a generation ago, does it?

Reply 35

Thisismyunitsr

Original post by nulli tertius

if you google it you can see that his dad did bribe Oxford to give him a place

Reply 36

emmaltunis

I don't know if it happens much in Uk universities anymore, unlike the US which are surely riddled with corruption. It does seem like most uk universities are trying their best to admit equally from state schools. The main exceptions, if I were going to bet on it, would be the ones where it seems most unpredictable on whether you will get in or not and which have a higher proportion of private school students who go there. I am thinking of Durham and St Andrews especially.

Reply 37

Admit-One

Universities Forum Helper

Since most UK unis have moved to centralised admissions (to a grater or lesser extent) it’s would actually be surprisingly difficult for bribery to be successful, as the people clicking the buttons are definitely not the ones that Gadaffi Sr. wants to be interacting with.

Original post by Thisismyunitsr

Isn't it a bit creepy having a man in his late 50s on a forum which is predominantly made up of sixth formers aged 16 - 18?

In that case I’ve got some bad news about all the experienced members who give out the most qualified advice :smile:

Reply 38

nulli tertius

Original post by Thisismyunitsr

Isn't it a bit creepy having a man in his late 50s on a forum which is predominantly made up of sixth formers aged 16 - 18?

And yes,, if you google it you can see that his dad did bribe Oxford to give him a place

There are plenty of older contributors leading the discussion on TSR. I am entirely open about my age and there is never anything improper about my contributions. Do you have problems with engaging in normal conversations with adults?

No his father did not bribe the college. This is what happened (per the Guardian):-

"He applied to Brasenose College, Oxford, which was then trying to recruit more state-school pupils. Young was told he needn't sit the entrance exam and could read philosophy, politics and economics if he got three Bs at A-level and acquired an O-level in a foreign language. He got two Bs and a C and didn't even attempt the O-level. He still got in, thanks to a curious episode in which, though he got a personal rejection letter, he first received a circular telling him when to arrive and where to collect his keys. His father rang the college, which agreed the circular created a moral obligation that should be honoured. From this unpromising beginning, Young got a first and, later, a Fulbright scholarship to Harvard and a place at Cambridge to do a PhD, which he never completed."

The ILEA Scheme resulting in the BBB offer was a bona fide widening access scheme. Unfortunately it tended to widen access for the sons of left wing professors. Ed Miliband also got his Oxford place that way.

There is no bribe. You can view the offer as Dad using his influence to get a place or cowardice that having made a mistake, they were frightened of what an influential Labour peer might say or do. However, you view it, it wasn't a bribe. Michael Young offered nothing except the implied threat that he would cause the college grief if young Toby wasn't let in.