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Why is there so much hate towards the role of Physician Associate in the UK.
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Just to chip in with my twopence on the issue- please note, I am not in the NHS system this information has been given by accounts by NHS professionals.
PA’s are meant to be used to help reduce the workload of Doctors in the NHS, however from a fair few doctors it isn’t that clear.
PA’s have to be “supervised” (quotation marks as I’m not sure exactly what classes as supervision) and check off PA’s action plans for patients (medications- prescribing) are ending up burdening doctors as they are responsible for any problems that may arise. While PA’s aren’t necessarily held to the same scrutiny.
To make an analogy, forgive me if it’s condescending, it’s like a dad saying to his child you can go cycling, if the child crashes and hurts himself as he forgot to wear his helmet without the dad watching him it’s the dads fault for not being there.
I assume the problem is that PA’s have less responsibility than Doctors while having a lot of overlapping things they can do. Any problems due to care usually fall on the supervising Doctor. Which doctors find annoying as they believe (so do I) that PA’s conception was to try and alleviate pressures faced by the increasing demand on Doctors.
Regarding the patient who died due to a misdiagnosis and wasn’t aware that the “GP” she was consulted by was a PA, people do have a point that doctors do cause mistakes as well but there are a few important implications about this case.
Unlike a doctor who would have to face a tribunal from the GMC- who are strict when coming to patient cases- (it is noted they exist to protect patients, not doctors), I mean they struck off a doctor for jumping a ticket fare, and would most likely get struck off/ suspended due to a fitness to practice issue, this PA was able to move to London and continue practicing over what would usually be career ending to doctors.
The increasing confusion regarding the different roles/ responsibilities of PA’s and doctors to the general population. How do patients know who is exactly treating them- a doctor or a PA- I guess this could come under consent issues. If you assume (logically) you are being consulted by a doctor, you are in effect consenting to the consultation with the assumption that the person is a doctor. I don’t want to sound mean but would you be more likely listen to a doctor or a PA? It doesn’t help that there have been accounts (unsure whether these accounts are valid) that professionals who they thought were doctors intentionally hid the fact they were a PA, not lying- hiding the fact they were a PA.
And scope creep, but I believe other people in this thread are far more capable to answer this.
PA’s are meant to be used to help reduce the workload of Doctors in the NHS, however from a fair few doctors it isn’t that clear.
PA’s have to be “supervised” (quotation marks as I’m not sure exactly what classes as supervision) and check off PA’s action plans for patients (medications- prescribing) are ending up burdening doctors as they are responsible for any problems that may arise. While PA’s aren’t necessarily held to the same scrutiny.
To make an analogy, forgive me if it’s condescending, it’s like a dad saying to his child you can go cycling, if the child crashes and hurts himself as he forgot to wear his helmet without the dad watching him it’s the dads fault for not being there.
I assume the problem is that PA’s have less responsibility than Doctors while having a lot of overlapping things they can do. Any problems due to care usually fall on the supervising Doctor. Which doctors find annoying as they believe (so do I) that PA’s conception was to try and alleviate pressures faced by the increasing demand on Doctors.
Regarding the patient who died due to a misdiagnosis and wasn’t aware that the “GP” she was consulted by was a PA, people do have a point that doctors do cause mistakes as well but there are a few important implications about this case.
Unlike a doctor who would have to face a tribunal from the GMC- who are strict when coming to patient cases- (it is noted they exist to protect patients, not doctors), I mean they struck off a doctor for jumping a ticket fare, and would most likely get struck off/ suspended due to a fitness to practice issue, this PA was able to move to London and continue practicing over what would usually be career ending to doctors.
The increasing confusion regarding the different roles/ responsibilities of PA’s and doctors to the general population. How do patients know who is exactly treating them- a doctor or a PA- I guess this could come under consent issues. If you assume (logically) you are being consulted by a doctor, you are in effect consenting to the consultation with the assumption that the person is a doctor. I don’t want to sound mean but would you be more likely listen to a doctor or a PA? It doesn’t help that there have been accounts (unsure whether these accounts are valid) that professionals who they thought were doctors intentionally hid the fact they were a PA, not lying- hiding the fact they were a PA.
And scope creep, but I believe other people in this thread are far more capable to answer this.
Original post by Jotenno
They are supervised though? They do not need someone stood watching over their shoulder for everything they do though, that's just being silly.
I am honestly confused as to why you are so against PAs? They are just another person in the wider team so why is that a bad thing?
Maybe you have had a bad experience with a PA? Even so, no need to hate the whole profession.
I am honestly confused as to why you are so against PAs? They are just another person in the wider team so why is that a bad thing?
Maybe you have had a bad experience with a PA? Even so, no need to hate the whole profession.
It is quite obvious that there are a number of them who are not being supervised adequately. There have been some high profile failures of care in the media recently which resulted in very adverse outcomes. This happens not because of failings on the part of individuals (and I'm including doctors in this), but because systems do not provide the necessary safety netting at some stage and suddenly all the holes on the swiss cheese align.
I have not stated anywhere that I hate the entire profession and I don't know where you got that impression from.
I have stated that some of what is going on is sub-optimal and shouldn't be permitted.
Anyone who has worked in any health service for any length of time will realise that there can be times where management and organisation are not optimal. That the the role of PAs has been allowed to continue for so long without a proper scope of practice or adequate regulation I find astonishing considering the increasingly litigious nature of healthcare in the UK but it does not surprise me in the slightest because healthcare is complex and many healthcare organisations are operationally very large and this can result in under-management of small areas from time to time. I am hoping that the role of PAs is correctly defined and legislated going forward and that the unintended loss of training opportunities for doctors ceases to be an issue. As I said, there is a whole raft of work that would ideally be done by PAs and free up time for doctors at all levels. This would speed up workloads, enhance patient safety and improve care over all. PAs should be working under the supervision of a named and qualified clinician at all times: this is clearly stated in black and white.
I would view PAs who are effectively operating independently and without the guidance/support of a qualified clinician as being in an unenviable position personally but this seems to be being encouraged by some organisations who are using them to fill rota gaps or operate a service without the cost incurred by using locum doctors.
(edited 1 month ago)
By the way, the GMC is going to regulate PA’s by the end of this year. I don’t know how this impacts doctors in general but I believe that it could result in PA’s being more accountable now whereas before they were unregulated. (No compulsory equivalent of the GMC)
Original post by tity25
(Original post by rbc22345)Most of the other stuff is waffle. You can easily make up scenarios for the interviews, and the personal statements don't count for anything anymore. The big intelligence/motivation indicators in the application process are the A Levels and the admission tests, both of which have thresholds which are too low imo.
I really hope that if you are a doctor that i never get treated by a person with such a negative mindset such as yours. The fact that you think medicine is based on A levels just shows that you're probably one of the doctors that doesn't care about building rapport, showing empathy and all the things that makes doctors have an impact on the patients care and experience. We don't need doctors like this especially if they think like you do. Please rethink your career choice for the safety of your patients. You say PAs have an inferiority complex , please, doctors have an ego problem. Doctors who feel threatened by PAs, whose roles completely differ from that of a doctor, shows how insecure you are in your profession. Please learn to grow up and understand that no one is coming for your job and if they wanted to they would've done a MBBS at Oxford.
I really hope that if you are a doctor that i never get treated by a person with such a negative mindset such as yours. The fact that you think medicine is based on A levels just shows that you're probably one of the doctors that doesn't care about building rapport, showing empathy and all the things that makes doctors have an impact on the patients care and experience. We don't need doctors like this especially if they think like you do. Please rethink your career choice for the safety of your patients. You say PAs have an inferiority complex , please, doctors have an ego problem. Doctors who feel threatened by PAs, whose roles completely differ from that of a doctor, shows how insecure you are in your profession. Please learn to grow up and understand that no one is coming for your job and if they wanted to they would've done a MBBS at Oxford.
Any doctors who feel threatened by PAs should consider retraining their skills because it indicates a lack of confidence in their abilities or low self-esteem. As a qualified PA, I was once asked by a Senior House Officer (SHO) why I should be at Band 7. 'We don't need you, we need Advanced Nurse Practitioners (ANPs),' they said. When I inquired why ANPs should be at Band 7, they had no idea that they were paid at that level. It's clear that many of these doctors have little understanding of the situation. Their main complaint seems to be that we are taking away their training opportunities!
Original post by username6321277
By the way, the GMC is going to regulate PA’s by the end of this year. I don’t know how this impacts doctors in general but I believe that it could result in PA’s being more accountable now whereas before they were unregulated. (No compulsory equivalent of the GMC)
How is this going to affect the job market ? At the moment , literally no jobs available. I have been qualified for 7 months...no jobs !!!
Original post by rbc22345
Yeah lol, 4 A*s in bio, chem, maths and further maths...and not with the COVID grade boundaries as well. An A is sh*t. Sorry to say it. Its not like I worked all day and night. I could have easily worked even harder. And yet I still managed to get 4 A*s. That is saying something....A Levels are too easy bro and have little value.
4 A levels? That's it? 🤣🤣🤣. Your ego is blinding you, not everyone is blessed like us. Be humble.
Original post by LatifahShii
How is this going to affect the job market ? At the moment , literally no jobs available. I have been qualified for 7 months...no jobs !!!
Oh really? Thought you failed your exams a month ago ...
Original post by shimul
Very simple. Some PAs pretend they are doctors. Also PAs are replacing medics leaving them without jobs. People have died after seeing PAs
NO doctors have ever got struck off. the good fellas !! look at the BMJ and news. PAs and ANPs are the same. Do ANPs replace you as well. You should be competitive towards your fella SHOs not us. you move from a payment of band 6 to 100,000 annual income within 7yrs training. we stay as band 7 till retriement.
We can never replace a profession with 5yrs training. believe in yourself. SHO's rotate every department ,we stay in a department. How is that stealing your training opportunities? Have you heard about team work?
We are NOT the topic to fight for. If you really look for change , fight against unnecessary sick leave claimers and benefiters.
(edited 1 week ago)
Original post by black tea
Oh really? Thought you failed your exams a month ago ...
Well, back tea. you are black again ! I understand it's too complicated for your brain to even comprehend what i do. Believe me, some people actually work to achieve something in their life. Seems like your current job status is "trolling",bet it's better than failing an exam. Do you live under benefits to get so much time and yet loot someone else's money. This is what we need to stop in this country. stop all benefitters sitting on their sofa and sick leave claimers NOT BREXIT.
(edited 1 week ago)
Original post by LatifahShii
Well, back tea. you are black again ! I understand it's too complicated for your brain to even comprehend what i do. Believe me, some people actually work to achieve something in their life. Seems like your current job status is "trolling". Do you live under benefits to get so much time and yet loot someone else's money. This is what we need to stop in this country. stop all benefitters sitting on their sofa and sick leave claimers NOT BREXIT.
Took you three attempts to actually write a reply? lol
What do you do for money, out of interest? Apparently, you either failed exams or haven't managed to get a job for 7 months (or are applying to medical school)?
I do not "live under benefits", whatever that means. You sound very angry - may I suggest a diazepam?
(edited 1 week ago)
Original post by LatifahShii
Well, back tea. you are black again ! I understand it's too complicated for your brain to even comprehend what i do. Believe me, some people actually work to achieve something in their life. Seems like your current job status is "trolling",bet it's better than failing an exam. Do you live under benefits to get so much time and yet loot someone else's money. This is what we need to stop in this country. stop all benefitters sitting on their sofa and sick leave claimers NOT BREXIT.
So to confirm, did you, or did you not fail your PA exam a month ago?
Original post by black tea
Took you three attempts to actually write a reply? lol
What do you do for money, out of interest? Apparently, you either failed exams or haven't managed to get a job for 7 months (or are applying to medical school)?
I do not "live under benefits", whatever that means. You sound very angry - may I suggest a diazepam?
What do you do for money, out of interest? Apparently, you either failed exams or haven't managed to get a job for 7 months (or are applying to medical school)?
I do not "live under benefits", whatever that means. You sound very angry - may I suggest a diazepam?
of course, diazepam overdose can help you from trolling. what else, cocaine and heroin next to help you think.
I know. you have to learn to use "edit". yet I dont think it will help you anyways. basic common sense comes with education
(edited 1 week ago)
Original post by Admit-One
So to confirm, did you, or did you not fail your PA exam a month ago?
Original post by black tea
Took you three attempts to actually write a reply? lol
What do you do for money, out of interest? Apparently, you either failed exams or haven't managed to get a job for 7 months (or are applying to medical school)?
I do not "live under benefits", whatever that means. You sound very angry - may I suggest a diazepam?
What do you do for money, out of interest? Apparently, you either failed exams or haven't managed to get a job for 7 months (or are applying to medical school)?
I do not "live under benefits", whatever that means. You sound very angry - may I suggest a diazepam?
66 followers
15-20 trolls everyday
we know your qualification and job is more of a " benefit claimer" or " a hacker" ? How much money are you looting from everyone of us dear. May be, you are targeting people, get them to follow you , get info of their email account and hack into their bank account.
Original post by LatifahShii
66 followers
15-20 trolls everyday
we know your qualification and job is more of a " benefit claimer" or " a hacker" ? How much money are you looting from everyone of us dear. May be, you are targeting people, get them to follow you , get info of their email account and hack into their bank account.
15-20 trolls everyday
we know your qualification and job is more of a " benefit claimer" or " a hacker" ? How much money are you looting from everyone of us dear. May be, you are targeting people, get them to follow you , get info of their email account and hack into their bank account.
You are mad
Original post by black tea
You are mad
I was just about to say, what a quite extraordinary set of responses.
I wonder if they’ll say that their 15 year old child has accessed their TSR account again?
Original post by Admit-One
I was just about to say, what a quite extraordinary set of responses.
I wonder if they’ll say that their 15 year old child has accessed their TSR account again?
I wonder if they’ll say that their 15 year old child has accessed their TSR account again?
Well, the replies certainly don't sound like ones coming from a mentally well adult with a university degree...
Original post by black tea
Well, the replies certainly don't sound like ones coming from a mentally well adult with a university degree...
PRSOM
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