What do all the folks who don't get on to Vet Med do instead?
My daughter has decided she is going to be a vet and work with animals.
Everyone knows how competitive it is, with multiple applicants per place and straight As the apparent minimum.
Other than Vet Nursing, which seems to have much lower grade requirements (and may not be any less competitive) I wonder what other career paths people follow if they don't get on to a Vet Med course - the current intent is to have daily contact with animals
Everyone knows how competitive it is, with multiple applicants per place and straight As the apparent minimum.
Other than Vet Nursing, which seems to have much lower grade requirements (and may not be any less competitive) I wonder what other career paths people follow if they don't get on to a Vet Med course - the current intent is to have daily contact with animals
To some extent it'll depend on the reason why someone is unsuccessful the first time - if someone gets the grades but not a place it could be down to work experience, application/interview performance, or just bad luck in the applicants-to-places ratio. This happens to plenty of people who choose to take a gap year (or multiple!) and reapply, often with more experience (depending on what they do in that gap year) and a stronger application, so not getting into vet school the first time definitely doesn't mean the end.
If vet school doesn't happen because of grades, that might be one of a two situations:
Considering courses with lower entry requirements:
I hope this is of some help, it's quite a wide question to answer as really there are lots of related careers!
Aside from grades, to be a successful applicant your daughter will need to complete work experience and have a good knowledge of current veterinary affairs so I would recommend getting a start on the placements soon if you haven't already! I'm more than happy to chat about the application process if you have any questions. Otherwise best of luck to her and you!
If vet school doesn't happen because of grades, that might be one of a two situations:
1.
Had the predicted grades but didn't get those in the exams. Could resit (I think this would also result in a gap year but someone correct me if I'm wrong, it would also require research into which universities do or don't accept resits) or look to a course with lower entry requirements.
2.
Don't have the predicted grades - consider a course with lower entry requirements.
Considering courses with lower entry requirements:
•
It's worth considering eligibility for foundation year vet courses. I think all have specific criteria for their applicants and I can't remember which universities offer them, but e.g. Nottingham have a gateway course for widening participation.
•
Like you said, there are careers such as vet nursing. Ones off my head that will provide that animal contact are things like physiotherapy (for dogs/cats and/or horses, the qualification allows you to do all but you can choose which you would like to work with), behaviourists and trainers, zoo staff, marine workers, wildlife workers, conservation workers, rescue/charity workers. I'm not sure how much animal contact a nutritionist could get. Another couple in the equine industry are dental technician, farrier/podiatrist or chiropractor. These each have their own way in, such as college and university courses or apprenticeships/specific training. The UK government website has quite a nice list of animal care-related careers: https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-categories/animal-care.
•
I think quite commonly people choose to do a related degree such as biology/zoology/bioveterinary science/etc. that could help lead to one of the above careers or something else in the field, but also opens the door to graduate veterinary medicine. This is a big consideration as it's more competitive than the standard 5 year course for places, and I believe the student loan system is different. However, it's not an impossible route and allows people to study to be a vet if they didn't sit the required A levels or get the required results.
I hope this is of some help, it's quite a wide question to answer as really there are lots of related careers!
Aside from grades, to be a successful applicant your daughter will need to complete work experience and have a good knowledge of current veterinary affairs so I would recommend getting a start on the placements soon if you haven't already! I'm more than happy to chat about the application process if you have any questions. Otherwise best of luck to her and you!
That's super useful, thank you for taking the time to explain this so clearly
Finding work experience is in hand, but not easy to get the breadth. Didn't think about a gap year, definitely an option to add to our list of things to think about
No one in our family / friends / circle has really worked in the animal sector, so knowing the jobs, the options, the routes etc isn't easy - and we almost don't know what questions to ask. So much to learn
Finding work experience is in hand, but not easy to get the breadth. Didn't think about a gap year, definitely an option to add to our list of things to think about
No one in our family / friends / circle has really worked in the animal sector, so knowing the jobs, the options, the routes etc isn't easy - and we almost don't know what questions to ask. So much to learn
Has she undertaken any work experience in a clinic yet? If she has and is sure that veterinary is for her, then most people just reapply until they get in. It is competitive and some people get in on their third attempt, but if she genuinely wants it, she should work to get it. I don't think I've ever heard of someone applying four times and then giving up, most people who fit the requirements are able to get in before that point. For each attempt you would improve your application, giving you a better chance the next time.
Get the correct A Level grades (and resit exams if you don't), exceed the minimum work experience requirements, and reflect a lot about the profession and what you have learnt along the way in order to interview well. These are my oversimplified tips for someone starting out.
The only thing you've said that concerns me is that her intent is to have daily contact with animals. Unfortunately this isn't really enough of a reason to become a vet (which the vet schools will ask about at the interview stage). Vets do have daily contact with animals of course, however you're time-limited to doing exams, tests, surgeries and providing other treatments to them. Vets are similar to doctors - they perform the consultations, make the treatment plans, prescribe drugs, perform euthanasias etc. The primary part of the job is dealing with clients and practising medicine, it just so happens that the medicine is given to animals. As you can see, if the main goal is only to have a career with daily animal contact, it might be a bit more than you bargained for.
A lot of people try to go into veterinary with a 'rose-tinted' view of it, and become disappointed when they realise the reality. There is a huge drop-out rate, both during vet school and a poor retention rate for those who have managed to become vets. The mental health and suicide rates are unfortunately very bad, due to stress, clients and poor pay. The admissions process is therefore looking for those who properly understand the role of a vet and can prove that they are fit to do it. Therefore, if you were to apply you would tailor your application to show how much you have learnt about the profession and why you would be good for it, rather than just saying how much you love animals and that it was your dream to be a vet.
Veterinary nurses have a lot more contact with the animals and time spent directly with them, but again, you will need to be interested in the medical side - nurses are responsible for monitoring anaesthesia during surgery, calculating drug dosages and administering treatments prescribed by the vet. Nurses also have a lot of face-to-face with clients, often running their own consultations. However, they also do the kennel-care side of things, meaning you may get more animal contact in this regard. Once the vet has performed a surgery, they will leave the animal to type up notes and call the owner, whereas the nurse is the one who stays with the animal to recover it, keep it warm and wake it up.
The advice you've been given above regarding other careers is really good, so I don't feel the need to elaborate on that. While I believe nursing is more appropriate for someone who just wants animal contact, I can't say I recommend either of these careers for someone who hasn't shown an interest in medicine. I think next steps for your daughter would be to undertake some work experience in a clinic to ensure it is what she imagined. If it is, great! Return to the forum and we will always be happy to advise on veterinary applications. I wish you both the best of luck.
P.S. if she does consider vet nursing, some advise to go the college route rather than the university route, to avoid student loans (and get paid while studying).
P.P.S the graduate veterinary medicine route is an option, but more competitive than the undergraduate route, and you also need to fund tuition fees out of pocket, as you cannot get a second student finance loan.
Get the correct A Level grades (and resit exams if you don't), exceed the minimum work experience requirements, and reflect a lot about the profession and what you have learnt along the way in order to interview well. These are my oversimplified tips for someone starting out.
The only thing you've said that concerns me is that her intent is to have daily contact with animals. Unfortunately this isn't really enough of a reason to become a vet (which the vet schools will ask about at the interview stage). Vets do have daily contact with animals of course, however you're time-limited to doing exams, tests, surgeries and providing other treatments to them. Vets are similar to doctors - they perform the consultations, make the treatment plans, prescribe drugs, perform euthanasias etc. The primary part of the job is dealing with clients and practising medicine, it just so happens that the medicine is given to animals. As you can see, if the main goal is only to have a career with daily animal contact, it might be a bit more than you bargained for.
A lot of people try to go into veterinary with a 'rose-tinted' view of it, and become disappointed when they realise the reality. There is a huge drop-out rate, both during vet school and a poor retention rate for those who have managed to become vets. The mental health and suicide rates are unfortunately very bad, due to stress, clients and poor pay. The admissions process is therefore looking for those who properly understand the role of a vet and can prove that they are fit to do it. Therefore, if you were to apply you would tailor your application to show how much you have learnt about the profession and why you would be good for it, rather than just saying how much you love animals and that it was your dream to be a vet.
Veterinary nurses have a lot more contact with the animals and time spent directly with them, but again, you will need to be interested in the medical side - nurses are responsible for monitoring anaesthesia during surgery, calculating drug dosages and administering treatments prescribed by the vet. Nurses also have a lot of face-to-face with clients, often running their own consultations. However, they also do the kennel-care side of things, meaning you may get more animal contact in this regard. Once the vet has performed a surgery, they will leave the animal to type up notes and call the owner, whereas the nurse is the one who stays with the animal to recover it, keep it warm and wake it up.
The advice you've been given above regarding other careers is really good, so I don't feel the need to elaborate on that. While I believe nursing is more appropriate for someone who just wants animal contact, I can't say I recommend either of these careers for someone who hasn't shown an interest in medicine. I think next steps for your daughter would be to undertake some work experience in a clinic to ensure it is what she imagined. If it is, great! Return to the forum and we will always be happy to advise on veterinary applications. I wish you both the best of luck.
P.S. if she does consider vet nursing, some advise to go the college route rather than the university route, to avoid student loans (and get paid while studying).
P.P.S the graduate veterinary medicine route is an option, but more competitive than the undergraduate route, and you also need to fund tuition fees out of pocket, as you cannot get a second student finance loan.
Original post by louisvbird
P.S. if she does consider vet nursing, some advise to go the college route rather than the university route, to avoid student loans (and get paid while studying).
P.P.S the graduate veterinary medicine route is an option, but more competitive than the undergraduate route, and you also need to fund tuition fees out of pocket, as you cannot get a second student finance loan.
P.P.S the graduate veterinary medicine route is an option, but more competitive than the undergraduate route, and you also need to fund tuition fees out of pocket, as you cannot get a second student finance loan.
Brilliant post. As someone who has worked veterinary for 12 years, it's really not all cuddling puppies and happily ever after. Make sure she understands it's definitely the role she wants.
super helpful louisvbird, thank you
You have explained my worries much more clearly than I have been able to
You have explained my worries much more clearly than I have been able to
Original post by ChiefBrody
My daughter has decided she is going to be a vet and work with animals.
Everyone knows how competitive it is, with multiple applicants per place and straight As the apparent minimum.
Other than Vet Nursing, which seems to have much lower grade requirements (and may not be any less competitive) I wonder what other career paths people follow if they don't get on to a Vet Med course - the current intent is to have daily contact with animals
Everyone knows how competitive it is, with multiple applicants per place and straight As the apparent minimum.
Other than Vet Nursing, which seems to have much lower grade requirements (and may not be any less competitive) I wonder what other career paths people follow if they don't get on to a Vet Med course - the current intent is to have daily contact with animals
The standard course that seems to be offered to candidates who do not manage to attain a place on VetMed D100 is Bioveterinary Science, but if your daughter just wants to work with animals then there are other ways to do it. My neice studied for a degree in animal conservation and has worked overseas in animal sancturies and in the UK for zoos with this qualification. She has found it to be very interesting, so you do not need a veterinary qualification to have an interesting occupation with animals.
The above answers have explained everything perfectly and I agree with everything they said. I am going into my third year at Liverpool and I had to take a gap year as despite having grades I didn't get any offers, and the second time I only got one offer where I'm at - gap years are super common and I think really helpful to mature as a person and even just to have a bit of a break before starting an intense course, so I really wouldn't discount it if necessary. I'll just add a few bits that might not relate directly to your question, but I think may be important for someone who's just starting to think about vet med seriously.
I've seen your other posts about your daughter's GCSEs, and 6s are honestly not disappointing and they aren't in subjects which the vet schools care about wanting 7s in, so I wouldn't worry - I actually got 6s in both maths and physics. The way applications (save Cambridge) work is that the grades are simply a check in the box to process the application further, not a way to rank applicants - someone getting all 9s or A*s is not above someone only getting the minimum, so I wouldn't worry. But it is important to meet the minimum otherwise that is pretty much an instant rejection with 10 applicants to a spot, most applicants reaching minimums and the deciding factor being form and interview scores as to who they think is most suitable for the career path. Straight As are not actually the case for every single vet school (although most of them) as there are some that require AAB and there are gateway courses with lower requirements too. I also saw her choice of subjects for A Level, which are good but I would say I would just not bother starting with 4 even with a view to drop one. It doesn't look any better on any applications, will just add workload and stress and tbh as a vet student you have to learn to try to minimise those, I wouldn't take too much on when it doesn't help anything - she needs those As in bio and chem which can be tough so I wouldn't add any subjects to distract from that.
So I do suggest that your daughter make a table of all the vet schools (not too many of them so won't take ages) and all their courses (look at gateway ones too just in case) and all their minimum GCSE, A Level and work experience requirements - do not apply to any she doesn't meet, if she can find more than 4 to apply to then can make the choices of where she prefers. Taking into account their application methods may be smart too - they'll have admissions guide things which state what type of interview they have (traditional, panel, MMI, in person or online etc) and other things like their forms which may be small essays, situational judgement multiple choice type etc. If she knows her strengths in those that could help lead to a successful application, e.g. Bristol don't interview and just use forms, Liverpool don't use forms except the work exp contacts and interview everyone who meets the minimum requirements goes through to interview, most don't use personal statements but there are some (particularly new ones) who do. The vet school council admissions guide may be a good starting point but it doesn't include all the new vet schools and obviously the actual uni websites will always be most accurate - I think being familiar with them helps. If she wants to aid decision making thereafter, other things she could note on the table are the type of campus (e.g. Nottingham is a campus with pretty much only vets in the country, many start off in the city like RVC and Liverpool then move to more rural areas later on), type of curriculum (modular/spiral), facilities like own hospitals etc - obviously up to her what she prefers as everyone is different!
And work experience. Very important, essentially the make or break for applications as a lot of form and interview questions are based around this or expect the applicant to refer to, and also make or break for whether she decides a career in vet med or otherwise is actually for her. It is as important as grades to meet as a checkpoint minimum requirement too, I've heard people getting like 3 hours under the minimum requirements get rejected instantly, so it's not something to overlook. I don't know all the work experience requirements nowadays since covid messed everything up, but I'd aim for the pre-covid ones (which I think most unis are going back to now) which was 2 weeks clinical (i.e. with a vet) and 2-4 weeks non-clinical. Many people pre covid would get 10+ weeks work experience, in my first application round when I only had the minimum I felt so embarrassed attending interviews at Nottingham - no one had that little, and imo while it is quality over quantity (once over the minimum of course) I do think the more you see the more you can talk about, and also shows more dedication and can't hurt. She does have plenty time now to do a good few weeks by the time she has to apply in her Year 13 October, so I'd start contacting and planning ASAP.
For vet placements, calling is the way - emails are easily lost, ignored, forgotten, most clinics will probably never answer. I would also make daughter call herself as I know most places will roll eyes at parents phoning for their kids, they need to show some initiative and vet is a customer-facing environment so need to be able to communicate effectively with people anyway. Calling means you get a clear answer of 1 do they even take pre-vet students and 2 what is best way to go about getting the placement. Don't be afraid to book in advance, if she has to book now for next summer then go for it. Large animal vets are much harder to find imo but she should be able to get smallies, I'd maybe try book 2 placements at different clinics in case one falls through or something. She may need to travel a bit outside her ideal range, or stay with friends/family but she'll have to do that as a vet student anyway - this is really important to secure and it's only a couple weeks in her life realistically to prepare her for a full career potentially.
Non-clinical placements imo are just as important as vet placements for pre-vet students too - at vet clinics it is a lot of standing around and watching at that stage, rather than getting involved. Lambing is the best one to get - she'll really get to know if she is cut out for vet med if she can handle all the fluids and smells and situations (aka things die a lot on farms) on a placement like this, usually conditions aren't always the best (I was working 14-16 hours a day rushing around while sleeping in a caravan with minimum access to showers etc in all weather) so it can be a big make or break. The best way to find placements imo is The National Sheep Association website which will reopen in about November time as it is not the season - you don't have to be anywhere near a farm as a lot of farmers offer free accommodation and meals, I'd get on it ASAP as it reopens and find at least a week for next spring. I'm happy to PM my farmers' details in Oxfordshire if you wanted. But aside from lambing, I would aim for a mix of finding non-clinical work experience with smallies (kennels, catteries, shelters, dog groomers), equine (riding schools always love an extra pair of hands!) and farm (lambing, dairy, beef, pigs, poultry, I think petting zoos aren't 'ideal' but acceptable for a pre-vet student). She can also try and find niches like I did the odd day at an alpaca farm and I know others who have done zoos, bird of prey centres and other exotics things, but I would prioritise the former first. Again calling gets you much quicker definite answers, I don't think it would take too long to book up her diary until her application date. She can do week blocks in holidays or she can find arrangements to go say every Saturday for a number of weeks, however she likes as long as the places also agree - vet clinics generally prefer week blocks but non-clinical may be more flexible.
Important to note alongside doing work experience is to get references as soon as a placement is ending in the correct format - Surrey's guide is a good one and should cover the bases for all the vet schools, but essentially most need the contact details of the business, the number of hours, basic responsibilities and a signature/stamp/logo. I would also suggest to keep a diary with those (makes filling out work exp forms much easier) and also to highlight things she could discuss at form/interview stage - bearing in mind they don't want her to know different medications or procedures or how many stables she's mucked up to date, they want to make sure she'd make a good vet student and future vet. So focus on the characteristics of that (empathy, determination, team work, initiative, good communication skills, resilience, observation, organisation etc) and find examples of how she's shown that during work experience. There are also some free online courses which may help alongside work experience to get some insight into the career, mostly Nottingham's 'Virtual Work Experience' on FutureLearn and EdiVet's ones on Coursera I believe.
Best of luck to her whatever route she decides to go down on
I've seen your other posts about your daughter's GCSEs, and 6s are honestly not disappointing and they aren't in subjects which the vet schools care about wanting 7s in, so I wouldn't worry - I actually got 6s in both maths and physics. The way applications (save Cambridge) work is that the grades are simply a check in the box to process the application further, not a way to rank applicants - someone getting all 9s or A*s is not above someone only getting the minimum, so I wouldn't worry. But it is important to meet the minimum otherwise that is pretty much an instant rejection with 10 applicants to a spot, most applicants reaching minimums and the deciding factor being form and interview scores as to who they think is most suitable for the career path. Straight As are not actually the case for every single vet school (although most of them) as there are some that require AAB and there are gateway courses with lower requirements too. I also saw her choice of subjects for A Level, which are good but I would say I would just not bother starting with 4 even with a view to drop one. It doesn't look any better on any applications, will just add workload and stress and tbh as a vet student you have to learn to try to minimise those, I wouldn't take too much on when it doesn't help anything - she needs those As in bio and chem which can be tough so I wouldn't add any subjects to distract from that.
So I do suggest that your daughter make a table of all the vet schools (not too many of them so won't take ages) and all their courses (look at gateway ones too just in case) and all their minimum GCSE, A Level and work experience requirements - do not apply to any she doesn't meet, if she can find more than 4 to apply to then can make the choices of where she prefers. Taking into account their application methods may be smart too - they'll have admissions guide things which state what type of interview they have (traditional, panel, MMI, in person or online etc) and other things like their forms which may be small essays, situational judgement multiple choice type etc. If she knows her strengths in those that could help lead to a successful application, e.g. Bristol don't interview and just use forms, Liverpool don't use forms except the work exp contacts and interview everyone who meets the minimum requirements goes through to interview, most don't use personal statements but there are some (particularly new ones) who do. The vet school council admissions guide may be a good starting point but it doesn't include all the new vet schools and obviously the actual uni websites will always be most accurate - I think being familiar with them helps. If she wants to aid decision making thereafter, other things she could note on the table are the type of campus (e.g. Nottingham is a campus with pretty much only vets in the country, many start off in the city like RVC and Liverpool then move to more rural areas later on), type of curriculum (modular/spiral), facilities like own hospitals etc - obviously up to her what she prefers as everyone is different!
And work experience. Very important, essentially the make or break for applications as a lot of form and interview questions are based around this or expect the applicant to refer to, and also make or break for whether she decides a career in vet med or otherwise is actually for her. It is as important as grades to meet as a checkpoint minimum requirement too, I've heard people getting like 3 hours under the minimum requirements get rejected instantly, so it's not something to overlook. I don't know all the work experience requirements nowadays since covid messed everything up, but I'd aim for the pre-covid ones (which I think most unis are going back to now) which was 2 weeks clinical (i.e. with a vet) and 2-4 weeks non-clinical. Many people pre covid would get 10+ weeks work experience, in my first application round when I only had the minimum I felt so embarrassed attending interviews at Nottingham - no one had that little, and imo while it is quality over quantity (once over the minimum of course) I do think the more you see the more you can talk about, and also shows more dedication and can't hurt. She does have plenty time now to do a good few weeks by the time she has to apply in her Year 13 October, so I'd start contacting and planning ASAP.
For vet placements, calling is the way - emails are easily lost, ignored, forgotten, most clinics will probably never answer. I would also make daughter call herself as I know most places will roll eyes at parents phoning for their kids, they need to show some initiative and vet is a customer-facing environment so need to be able to communicate effectively with people anyway. Calling means you get a clear answer of 1 do they even take pre-vet students and 2 what is best way to go about getting the placement. Don't be afraid to book in advance, if she has to book now for next summer then go for it. Large animal vets are much harder to find imo but she should be able to get smallies, I'd maybe try book 2 placements at different clinics in case one falls through or something. She may need to travel a bit outside her ideal range, or stay with friends/family but she'll have to do that as a vet student anyway - this is really important to secure and it's only a couple weeks in her life realistically to prepare her for a full career potentially.
Non-clinical placements imo are just as important as vet placements for pre-vet students too - at vet clinics it is a lot of standing around and watching at that stage, rather than getting involved. Lambing is the best one to get - she'll really get to know if she is cut out for vet med if she can handle all the fluids and smells and situations (aka things die a lot on farms) on a placement like this, usually conditions aren't always the best (I was working 14-16 hours a day rushing around while sleeping in a caravan with minimum access to showers etc in all weather) so it can be a big make or break. The best way to find placements imo is The National Sheep Association website which will reopen in about November time as it is not the season - you don't have to be anywhere near a farm as a lot of farmers offer free accommodation and meals, I'd get on it ASAP as it reopens and find at least a week for next spring. I'm happy to PM my farmers' details in Oxfordshire if you wanted. But aside from lambing, I would aim for a mix of finding non-clinical work experience with smallies (kennels, catteries, shelters, dog groomers), equine (riding schools always love an extra pair of hands!) and farm (lambing, dairy, beef, pigs, poultry, I think petting zoos aren't 'ideal' but acceptable for a pre-vet student). She can also try and find niches like I did the odd day at an alpaca farm and I know others who have done zoos, bird of prey centres and other exotics things, but I would prioritise the former first. Again calling gets you much quicker definite answers, I don't think it would take too long to book up her diary until her application date. She can do week blocks in holidays or she can find arrangements to go say every Saturday for a number of weeks, however she likes as long as the places also agree - vet clinics generally prefer week blocks but non-clinical may be more flexible.
Important to note alongside doing work experience is to get references as soon as a placement is ending in the correct format - Surrey's guide is a good one and should cover the bases for all the vet schools, but essentially most need the contact details of the business, the number of hours, basic responsibilities and a signature/stamp/logo. I would also suggest to keep a diary with those (makes filling out work exp forms much easier) and also to highlight things she could discuss at form/interview stage - bearing in mind they don't want her to know different medications or procedures or how many stables she's mucked up to date, they want to make sure she'd make a good vet student and future vet. So focus on the characteristics of that (empathy, determination, team work, initiative, good communication skills, resilience, observation, organisation etc) and find examples of how she's shown that during work experience. There are also some free online courses which may help alongside work experience to get some insight into the career, mostly Nottingham's 'Virtual Work Experience' on FutureLearn and EdiVet's ones on Coursera I believe.
Best of luck to her whatever route she decides to go down on
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