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What are my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge?

I apologise for making another 'what are my chances' thread but it had to be done.

I am currently in my second year studying mathematics at Warwick University. I got a high first last year and am predicted a first overall.

I am interested in studying either international relations or management as a masters. This may seeme slightly unusual but I do have reasons for it. Firstly I have always been interested in politics and considered going for either PPE or maths but then chose maths. I follow UK and international politics closely, reading The Economist, The New Statesman and other political and economic journals regularly. I read a lot about politics just for my own interest and go to regular talks by the politics/debating societies. However I have never studied politics or international relations.

Secondly management. My maths degree is very flexible and I have taken several management and business options in both my first and second years and intend to take more in my third year. I really enjoy these modules and can see myself going further with them.

I can really see myself studying either one of these subjects at masters level. Although I love my maths degree I do not want to go into academia or banking and would like to study something more relevant to my future career.

However I am worried that universities, especially the prestigious ones I intend to apply to, will not understand why I am applying for one of these subjects with a maths degree and reject me in favour of applicants with politics/history/economics degrees in the former case and economics/business degrees in the latter.

I am interested in applying to both Oxford and Cambridge but more interested in going to the US to study, in which case I would be applying to Yale, Columbia, Princeton, Berkeley, Duke, Chicago and others. I have already researched these colleges.

What do you think my chances are at applying for either international relations or management masters degrees are and how can I improve them?

Just to let you know my stats:
I should graduate with a 1st class degree in mathematics from Warwick in 2010
I have straight As at A-Level
I have plenty of extra-curriculars and positions of responsibility (newspaper, sports, drama, music etc) but not particularly relevant ones
I don't have much work experience. The last time I did work experience was in sixth form so I'm a bit worried about this.
I'm quite good at taking verbal/non verbal reasoning tests. (I'm a member of Mensa so those are the kind of questions I can do - perhaps less good at those verbal comprehension type ones though.)

Please help!

Reply 1

superman19

11

If you're not smart enough to work this one out on your own, then you have no chance.

Reply 2

Rosie151

OP

2

superman19

If you're not smart enough to work this one out on your own, then you have no chance.

Thanks for that ever so helpful reply but I would like people's opinions and I'm not sure that having a comprehensive knowledge of the postgraduate systems of two different countries is quite the same as being smart.

Reply 3

KMaine

I think it is hard for anyone to chance you for these institutions. Your grades obviously are great. However, grades and standardized test scores are not enough to get you into a graduate program. You must come up with a statement of purpose that explains why you would be a good candidate for a program outside your undergrad discipline and, more importantly, why you wish to pursue such a degree. Reasons such as "I like politics" and "I do not want to go into academia or banking" are not particularly compelling as I am sure you understand. What is your purpose?

If you cannot answer this question, you might be better off landing a job that would allow you to do political work and find out what it is that you want to accomplish.

Reply 4

Krush

10

Rosie151

Just to let you know my stats:
I should graduate with a 1st class degree in mathematics from Warwick in 2010
I have straight As at A-Level
I have plenty of extra-curriculars and positions of responsibility (newspaper, sports, drama, music etc) but not particularly relevant ones
I don't have much work experience. The last time I did work experience was in sixth form so I'm a bit worried about this.
I'm quite good at taking verbal/non verbal reasoning tests. (I'm a member of Mensa so those are the kind of questions I can do - perhaps less good at those verbal comprehension type ones though.)

Please help!

As a fellow Warwick mathematician finalist, I don't think it is really wise to assume you will get a first just because you got a first in your 1st year (loads of people get firsts that year). Statistically you do down 10% in your 2nd compared to the 1st year, and I personally know someone who went down by 20% without any abnormal circumstances.

Back on topic, I think you have a good chance. Back up your personal statement with a lot of relevant info, explaining in logical steps how your interests moved from maths to management. Talk to your tutor and other members of staff who are likely to write references for your postgrad apps about your interests.

Reply 5

Danny_777

16

Lol, do you have the £100,000 that it takes to attend one of these universities readily available?

Also, there is a HUGE focus on extra-curriculars at Ivy Leagues. As in, huge.

Reply 6

Rosie151

OP

2

KMaine

I think it is hard for anyone to chance you for these institutions. Your grades obviously are great. However, grades and standardized test scores are not enough to get you into a graduate program. You must come up with a statement of purpose that explains why you would be a good candidate for a program outside your undergrad discipline and, more importantly, why you wish to pursue such a degree. Reasons such as "I like politics" and "I do not want to go into academia or banking" are not particularly compelling as I am sure you understand. What is your purpose?

If you cannot answer this question, you might be better off landing a job that would allow you to do political work and find out what it is that you want to accomplish.

Thanks. Well right now I have plans to go into the civil service or foreign office so I guess that would be my purpose. It's hard to say much beyond that simply because I don't have the neccessary experience. That's my main worry.

Also is it common for graduates to pursue programs outside their undergrad disciplines? I really don't know whether what I want to do is unusual or common or even possible!

Reply 7

Rosie151

OP

2

Krush

As a fellow Warwick mathematician finalist, I don't think it is really wise to assume you will get a first just because you got a first in your 1st year (loads of people get firsts that year). Statistically you do down 10% in your 2nd compared to the 1st year, and I personally know someone who went down by 20% without any abnormal circumstances.

Back on topic, I think you have a good chance. Back up your personal statement with a lot of relevant info, explaining in logical steps how your interests moved from maths to management. Talk to your tutor and other members of staff who are likely to write references for your postgrad apps about your interests.

Absolutely true and I do realise how hard the second year is compared to the first! However I got a high first in my first year doing 120 CATS and I am currently working much harder than I did last year, understanding the material and also taking 140 CATS so I hope I stand a decent chance!

Thanks for your advice!

Reply 8

FutureEconomist

Rosie151

Thanks. Well right now I have plans to go into the civil service or foreign office so I guess that would be my purpose. It's hard to say much beyond that simply because I don't have the neccessary experience. That's my main worry.

Also is it common for graduates to pursue programs outside their undergrad disciplines? I really don't know whether what I want to do is unusual or common or even possible!

I'd say it's reasonably common, particularly in the US, for students to apply for a post-graduate course outside of their under-graduate subject.

I'm also sorry that everyone on here is being so negative. I wish you the best of luck with what you want to do.

I'm a current undergraduate student at the University of Chicago, which has some leading programmes in politics, economics, IR etc. If you want to know any thing about UChicago specifically, I can help, or direct you to someone who might be able to help more!

Reply 9

Rosie151

OP

2

Danny_777

Lol, do you have the £100,000 that it takes to attend one of these universities readily available?

Also, there is a HUGE focus on extra-curriculars at Ivy Leagues. As in, huge.

Yes.

I have a LOT of extra-curriculars so I'm not too worried about that. Brief summary - play two instruments at high level, write for news and features in newspaper, hold two exec positions and likely to hold 2/3 more next year including one president of society position, acted in lots of plays, do charity work, play for two orchestras, organising one world week (event at my uni), organising arts festival, debating society (won award), various sports at decent/fairly high level.
My main worries are:
1. change of discipline for undergrad to postgrad (I genuinely feel like I have a huge intellectual interest in these subjects but do not know how to put this across when i have had so little experience studying them.)
2. Lack of work experience (is this a problem for a masters degree?)
3. Lack of focus in extra curriculars - although i have a lot of ECs, they are not really directed towards international relations or management. Is this a problem?

Reply 10

FutureEconomist

Danny_777

Lol, do you have the £100,000 that it takes to attend one of these universities readily available?

Also, there is a HUGE focus on extra-curriculars at Ivy Leagues. As in, huge.

Ever heard of financial aid or scholarships?!

...I'm by no means a poor student, but by applying to these sorts of programmes, I'm studying in the US on a full ride. If the girl wants to apply, money shouldn't be too much of a deterrent, as there are a ton of programmes out there, even for international students like myself and the OP. There is actually way more financial assistance available for US study than UK study...

Reply 11

Rosie151

OP

2

FutureEconomist

I'd say it's reasonably common, particularly in the US, for students to apply for a post-graduate course outside of their under-graduate subject.

I'm also sorry that everyone on here is being so negative. I wish you the best of luck with what you want to do.

I'm a current undergraduate student at the University of Chicago, which has some leading programmes in politics, economics, IR etc. If you want to know any thing about UChicago specifically, I can help, or direct you to someone who might be able to help more!

Thank you! May well be contacting you soon... :o:

Reply 12

Totally Tom

18

Rosie151

Absolutely true and I do realise how hard the second year is compared to the first! However I got a high first in my first year doing 120 CATS and I am currently working much harder than I did last year, understanding the material and also taking 140 CATS so I hope I stand a decent chance!

Thanks for your advice!

lol@120 cats in first year.

also, you wrote for the boar? WHO ARE YOU? post some more in the warwick current students forum. pease :smile:

Reply 13

Champagne Breakfast

16

i'm actually an undergrad at an american college, but for what my advice is worth i think it's absolutely possible to switch from maths to either of the two subjects you wish to study at masters level (so long as the universities you're looking at do not have any particular requirements). the impression i have of grad schools in the US is that many of them are looking for people from a variety of different educational backgrounds, and i'm sure they would appreciate the different perspective a mathematician could bring to the field of international relations for instance.

in this light i think what is most important for you to do is to a) pick one of the two choices soon to focus on and b) demonstrate genuine interest in your chosen field. although academics will be more important than any other single factor, and although work experience probably won't be weighted too heavily, i think one way to show a strong interest in international relations for instance would be to get some kind of internship over the summer, possibly in the foreign office, a think tank, a foreign affairs journal, something like that. your ECs sound really good, but i would start considering ways to get involved outside of academic work in either management or international relations, by joining a relevant club or magazine. this might mean cutting down some of your other activities, which could in turn help indicate a greater focus. so i would think about your current extracurriculars and which ones you could do without, what your current extracurriculars could add to your application, and what other extracurriculars you could get involved in to help your application.

Reply 14

Clomipramine

I studied one of the biological sciences at undergraduate level and successfully got an offer for MSc in Management. So your Math degree is definitely no problem at all, since my switch is even bigger than yours. Just tell them a good reason for your switch. Lack of extracurricular activities directly relevant to Management doesn't matter too much, as long as your involvement in those activities demonstrate that you have the soft skills necessary to be successful in your chosen field in the future.

I have also applied to Harvard, Yale, and Duke for the Master's degree in an Arts major. Again, another huge change in major.

Lastly, keep up your good grades, and think about how to write a good, convincing personal statement. Working experience is not essential for MSc in Management since it is basically a pre-experience programme.

Reply 15

MeanMachine

15

your a member of mensa? :O :O :O

Reply 16

pendragon

13

If you need to take the GRE or similar for the US applications you need to get very high scores in the verbal and essay section as well as the maths to show that your skills are not purely mathematical. If you get a first you would be pretty sure of getting into Oxbridge or LSE. Good Luck.

Reply 17

Clomipramine

pendragon

If you get a first you would be pretty sure of getting into Oxbridge or LSE.

Really?

Hope you are right! :biggrin:

Reply 18

Danny_777

16

pendragon

If you get a first you would be pretty sure of getting into Oxbridge or LSE. Good Luck.

Absolute, unmitigated rubbish. Plenty more that apply get firsts than there are spaces.

In fact, for Maths, I don't think anyone really applies without one.