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A lot of people hate on Islam because of how isolationist a lot of Islamic communities in this country are. If all Muslims would just integrate instead of having a significant minority of isolationists who insist on calling the West decadent all the time, then noone would have a problem.

rupertj

Physical violence towards a wife is only permitted under extreme circumstances, and even then, it is discouraged. The Prophet said, 'the best among you is he who is good to his wife'.

Women take a father's name. And that doesn't happen everywhere? So name did all of your friends and family take? Their father's or their mothers?

Polygamy and and marriage to non-Muslims (followers of Abrahamic faiths, to be accurate) are both examples of differences in the roles of men and women, but aren't examples of differences in standing or worth.

The problem with this is that you are stereotyping people into gender roles. You are moving individual rights and individual decisions. You are basically say "men should be like this", "women should be like this". Actually, you don't have any right to tell other people how to live their lives.
Reply 241
Laiklik
The point is that as it stands, Islam is in conflict with science.



Either way, the fact that it's even permitted in the most extreme circumstance is evidence of unequal treatment.



Pointing the finger at X to justify Y doesn't work.



You sound like a British National Party supporter who's defending his party against accusations of racism by arguing that 'it's not racism, it's ethnic nationalism'.

Islam actually supports scientific claims. Many scientific discoveries, which have only recently been discovered, has been already mentioned in the Qu'ran. A great example of this is the study of Human Embryology. And secondly, the theory of Evolution isn't necessarily correct, there are many flaws in the theory itself. And Islam is not the only religion which is against the theory, all theist religions are.
And isn't it slightly hypocritical to say that Islam is unfair because children take after their fathers name, when you do it as well?
Reply 242
rupertj
Have you been there? I have been there on more than one occasion, and I noticed differences between rules in Britain and over there, both the large ones and the small ones. Never did it seem to me that men rule over women. there is one exception. women can't drive. i think that's unfair and isn't right.

However, saudi arabia is not the perfect islamic state in terms of its laws that the Prophet established.


I haven`t been there. I don`t think the driving thing is an exception, more a rule. For example men are allowed to marry young girls. Generally you can say that women`s rights are a nightmare in every islamic country.
Reply 243
Laiklik
The point is that as it stands, Islam is in conflict with science.



Either way, the fact that it's even permitted in the most extreme circumstance is evidence of unequal treatment.



Pointing the finger at X to justify Y doesn't work.



You sound like a British National Party supporter who's defending his party against accusations of racism by arguing that 'it's not racism, it's ethnic nationalism'.

Insisting on the same point, as you do in the first line, doesn't work - especially if you haven't understood my point properly. The final point you make, suggesting that I'm just replacing words with euphemisms, is only just about a point at all. Men have rights above women, but so do women have rights above men. These rights create the differences in their roles as opposed to inequality.

In response to your X-Y comment, I was trying to point out that in such a case the whole world is treating women unfairly - why? Because the man's name is usually taken. Furthermore, that is a cultural thing, not a religious one.
Reply 244
m0man
Islam actually supports scientific claims. Many scientific discoveries, which have only recently been discovered, has been already mentioned in the Qu'ran. A great example of this is the study of Human Embryology.


Please elaborate because quite often these 'scientific' claims in the Quran are always vague, short statements which people like yourself quickly inter pet in a way so as to strengthen the scientific integrity of the Quran.

m0man
And secondly, the theory of Evolution isn't necessarily correct, there are many flaws in the theory itself.


Actually, it's almost unanimously accepted in the scientific community; there isn't a serious alternative.

m0man
And Islam is not the only religion which is against the theory, all theist religions are.


Actually, there are many Jews and Christians who argue that the Bible does not contradict evolution. However, even if we accept for the moment that all religions reject evolution - that doesn't mean its right.

m0man
And isn't it slightly hypocritical to say that Islam is unfair because children take after their fathers name, when you do it as well?


Once again, you're trying to defend Islam by pointing the finger at someone else. Stop being such a naughty boy!
Reply 245
Look, too many people are quoting me and arguing with me. The points often overlap. How am I supposed to answer all of them? I am actually doing revision on here in another window. But thank you m0man for pointing out the scientific thing because I was just about to edit my own post to include my response to that.
Why is there people hating on Islam?

Because Muslims are using "hating on" as a verb!
Reply 247
Please elaborate because quite often these 'scientific' claims in the Quran are always vague, short statements which people like yourself quickly inter pet in a way so as to strengthen the scientific integrity of the Quran.


Apparently you've been making sweeping statements about science and the Qur'an without actually knowing some of the most significant 'scientific' passages of the Book. It certainly wasn't interpreted quickly by people 'such as him' either, but by experts on Arabic. In fact, world's leading embryologist, a Canadian (?) man called Dr Keith Moore, converted to Islam having read the passages concerning embryology in the Qur'an. Google it.
Post war Britain needed cheap immigrant Labour to rebuild it's economy. That's the basic fact of the entire debate.
Reply 249
Laiklik
Please elaborate because quite often these 'scientific' claims in the Quran are always vague, short statements which people like yourself quickly inter pet in a way so as to strengthen the scientific integrity of the Quran.



Actually, it's almost unanimously accepted in the scientific community; there isn't a serious alternative.



Actually, there are many Jews and Christians who argue that the Bible does not contradict evolution. However, even if we accept for the moment that all religions reject evolution - that doesn't mean its right.



Once again, you're trying to defend Islam by pointing the finger at someone else. Stop being such a naughty boy!

I'd like to waste my time writing out all the information, but I think I'll just give you some links for now.
Science in the Qu'ran: http://www.quran-islam.org/112.html
The theory of Evolutions' flaws: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread163678/pg1
And stop being such a hypocrite.
Reply 250
rupertj
Apparently you've been making sweeping statements about science and the Qur'an without actually knowing some of the most significant 'scientific' passages of the Book. It certainly wasn't interpreted quickly by people 'such as him' either, but by experts on Arabic. In fact, world's leading embryologist, a Canadian (?) man called Dr Keith Moore, converted to Islam having read the passages concerning embryology in the Qur'an. Google it.


Perhaps you could quote the passage in the Quran apparently dealing with embryology.
Reply 251
m0man
I'd like to waste my time writing out all the information, but I think I'll just give you some links for now.
Science in the Qu'ran: http://www.quran-islam.org/112.html
The theory of Evolutions' flaws: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread163678/pg1


I've read the section on embryology and there's nothing conclusive there, just some common sense statements and imaginative interpretation. Even the author of the article makes statements like, "it has been interpreted", "a more meaningful interpretation", "there are other interpretations of this statement", etc.

m0man
And stop being such a hypocrite.


How am I a hypocrite?
Reply 252
The fact that a democratic chosen MP from a European country is not allowed in the UK because a British muslim MP doesn`t want so, says it all really.
Reply 253
Laiklik
Perhaps you could quote the passage in the Quran apparently dealing with embryology.

Ha! Is that how you analyse something? Without being presented with any additional information? Are you an embryology expert then, capable of dismantling the text?

Read this, and don't get bored halfway and stop reading it, because there is some interesting stuff near the end about Keith Moore, and some very interesting stuff in the middle.
Reply 254
rupertj
Ha! Is that how you analyse something? Without being presented with any additional information? Are you an embryology expert then, capable of dismantling the text?


If you're so confident about the scientific viability of the Quran, why don't you just offer these verses which you're referring to?
Reply 255
And if you think those things are interpreted 'quickly', then read about the meaning of the word 'alaqah', and how the use of such a word satisfies each possible description and function of an embryo.
Reply 256
Laiklik
If you're so confident about the scientific viability of the Quran, why don't you just offer these verses which you're referring to?

they are at the beginning of the link and also because someone who knows nothing about embryology (unless you are an embryologist, what other possibility is there?) would not appreciate it.
Reply 257
Laiklik
I've read the section on embryology and there's nothing conclusive there, just some common sense statements and imaginative interpretation.

Imaginative interpretation? The fact is the verses were there. The discoveries are made and then a correlation is made between the two. Hardly an coincidence.
And I love how you ignored the Evolution topic too.


Laiklik
How am I a hypocrite?

By saying that Islam is an unfair religion because children take their fathers name, when you do just that.
Reply 259
People on here saying Muslims genrealy dont intergate dont come at that with me becuase i go to an all white school and we mix perfectly well with the non muslims students and where i work is all non muslim people and we get on perfectly well!

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