STUDENTS FROM UK who go ABROAD to study medicine

A lot go abroad because they just didn't make the grades however many top students are also forced to go abroad because there just aren't enough places.

Affordability is another reason. The EU is far cheaper particularly when it comes to GEM. Despite some people making the cut academically there's no way they could fund GEM in the UK.


Posted from TSR Mobile

Surely if there weren't places for them, then that means they are not 'top' students? If they were the 'top' (as the medical school sees it anyway) then they would have won a place over the people who got it.

What is 'this' specifically? What measures were put in place for dentistry? I'm not sure how restricting EU access to FY1 is going to help, given that the majority of EU med courses are the same six year kind with the final year counting as equivalent to FY1. Maybe lots of them apply for FY1 anyway, who knows. Any data on that?

I mean if any medical students can't get FY1 or FY2 places they will change the system.
With dentistry they have made it so that once ALL UK graduates(who pass, of course) are given foundation places, the next in line will be EU/EEA and then internationals.
To work in the UK you NEED a foundation year in a GDP.

This is because of the pyramid structure and nothing to do with EU competition.

Yes, this isn't BECAUSE of EU competition, but it would indicate that there is not room for as many consultants relative to the training rate. Or lack of NHS funding for consultant positions.
NHS funding isn't likely to increase in the near future unless it is privatised. For this reason providing more foundation places probably isn't going to happen. Going abroad and coming back to the UK is a lot more common now than it was say 10 years ago, this will lead to far too many EU students applying for FY1/FY2. When EU grads start to get places over UK grads, there will be a change. Within a year of dental grads not getting foundation places, they changed the system.

London is popular and competitive. Again, how big an impact are UK citizen, EU med school 'returners' having on this? How big an impact are applicants from EU med schools having on this full stop? Any data?

Again, I never said this was to do with EU grads specifically. London is very competitive anyway.

Quite clearly the fact that there is a strong element of luck involved and that plenty of people get in upon reapplying (not to mention that virtually everyone who gets an offer gets into some med schools but gets rejected from others) shows that it's really far from about just being 'good enough' to get in.

Plus people usually describe hard-working/intelligent students with fantastic grades as 'top students' - there's no reason to think these people would necessarily have the application that most catches an admissions tutor's eye, though.

The confirmation bias of students who get into competitive universities and courses is absolutely un-freaking-believeable, by the way. 'I got in because I'm smart enough' and 'he didn't get in because he's not smart enough'. When actually in a lot of cases, they're virtually the same person.

Im not being rude.
I don't blame them tbh, I mean, why not?
The system is broken.

Bold.

The LARGE majority who go to bulgaria/romania etc go because they couldn't get in the UK - not due to competition, but because they simply couldn't get the grades.

Admissions for medicine/dentistry is a joke though. Completely biased to privately educated pupils. My school gives no help for admissions for medicine/dentistry, they don't give mock interviews, have no idea about the UKCAT.

A*A*A, 11A*s 760 UKCAT a kid in the year above got, he got rejected pre interview from two unis and rejected post interview from 2 unis for dentistry. He had to reapply and he got ONE offer.
He said when he went to interview there were people who had got 4 interviews with much lower academics than his, and they were talking about how their 'ucas tutor' pretty much wrote their personal statements(obviously privately educated)...

No arguments there. I was just addressing the other poster's slightly skewed view of exactly who gets into Medicine in the UK and who doesn't.


I understand that completely. I pity anyone who doesn't discover (and make good use of) TSR at least a year before applying for Medicine if they go to a regular state school like I did.

The GMC already (as far as I have been able to tell) distinguishes between UK citizens graduating from EU med schools and other people graduating from EU med schools. I struggle to imagine that the UK citizens would be cut off at the same time as the EU ones. I'm not sure I see a problem with guaranteeing UK grads a place ahead of anyone else. I do however think they might struggle (legally) to give UK grads priority for preferred jobs, instead of awarding them based on merit, once it's already been decided who's entitled to a post. I haven't looked into it enough to know what kind of a disadvantage people graduating from EU med schools have when it comes to getting their preferred job though.

I don't think consultant posts before the age of 40 have been a natural conclusion for the majority of doctors for quite a long time now. It's the intended structure of the NHS and things are quite simply changing. Hence why they (I think) were talking about creating a new role somewhere underneath it, to pacify the masses.

I've come across the same attitude towards EU medics you've displayed here in other threads. If I'm being honest, it's a bit nasty. Anyway, if you don't blame them, why belittle them for making that choice?

Quite clearly the fact that there is a strong element of luck involved and that plenty of people get in upon reapplying (not to mention that virtually everyone who gets an offer gets into some med schools but gets rejected from others) shows that it's really far from about just being 'good enough' to get in.

Plus people usually describe hard-working/intelligent students with fantastic grades as 'top students' - there's no reason to think these people would necessarily have the application that most catches an admissions tutor's eye, though.

The confirmation bias of students who get into competitive universities and courses is absolutely un-freaking-believeable, by the way. 'I got in because I'm smart enough' and 'he didn't get in because he's not smart enough'. When actually in a lot of cases, they're virtually the same person.

I had to reapply to get in, I wouldn't say that it was due to luck that I got rejected first time nor that I got in subsequently. If you have top UKCAT/BMAT scores, all A*s at GCSE/ A level, excellent work experience/ extracurriculars and you interview well you will get an offer anywhere. There are plenty of people who get all 4 offers because of this.
The majority of medical schools have clearly stated admissions criteria and if you tick the boxes with the criteria I have mentioned above then they will be seen as 'top students,' (I stated top students from the point of view from the medical school) it is not a matter of just 'catching the tutor's eye.' This also explains your point about people getting offers at some places but not others- med schools have different admissions criteria and one candidate will tick one's boxes but not the others.
People get more offers on reapplication because their applications are much stronger:
They have achieved their grades, they can get more work experience/jobs, they can revise more for admissions tests etc. etc.
I didn't say that people who get into medical school here are 'smarter,' I'm sure there are plenty of people who go abroad out of pure choice but the poster I responded to claimed that there isn't enough room for the top students (again from the eyes of the medical school that is not true).
A lot of the criteria medical schools use are not based on intelligence. But everyone, clearly, are not the exact same people, even if they have done marginally better at interview/statement/UKCAT etc. they are better (in the eyes of the medical school) and they have to draw the line somewhere.

Sorry but the whole basis of your view point on medical education, is the UK admission process.

The UK does not currently have enough medical school places, to fill its deficit in doctors. We are just as deserving as you when it comes to a job in the UK.

If their was a test to distinguish individuals- I would be very happy to take it. But you should get off your high horse of 'I studied medicine in England blabla' because the reality is, if you end up practicing in the UK, your co-workers/superiors could be from Europe.


Posted from TSR Mobile

The vast majority of you are not as deserving for an ENTRY job as a UK medical students. Hence why you didn't get the a level grades to get into a UK medical school.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=too+many+medical+students+uk&oq=too+many+medical+students+uk&aqs=chrome..69i57.4545j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8

I don't know what your universities have been feeding you with, but there are plenty of reports of there being too MANY medical students.

Your link shows you searching 'too many medical students UK'
Brilliant non-bias research. You have your view and are trying to prove it. Being a student of science you should know the process is usually the other way

Posted from TSR Mobile

LOL?
its completely irrelevant. The BMJ is not biased is it? Or the telegraph?

LOL?
its completely irrelevant. The BMJ is not biased is it? Or the telegraph?

Students that don't get into UK medicals schools and go abroad to study just shows how determined they are, and those are the kind of doctors we need.