Can I get into actuarial profession with a Music degree...

Another year, another lot of graduate applications coming to a close.

I have to admit, though, there doesn't seem to be that many actuarial graduates in this topic year relative to other years?

We talked to you quite a lot, right? Trying to remember something specific we talked about but I'm struggling.



You're not going to get more than one or (at best) two exemptions from doing a non-actuarial course. I wouldn't worry about that though - most people start the exams from scratch, and some employers even prefer it that way apparently. It can be tough starting on some of the later exams without having had work experience, as well. But if you fancy doing actuarial science then by all means do! At my company they don't seem to have a preference one way or the other.

£25k-35k sounds right to me. I think it depends on the size of the employer and the location of the job. I don't think many positions would start at £35k - you're probably looking at £30k-33k for central London jobs and more like £25k-30k outside London, as it costs so much less to live there! A friend started a few years back at a large actuarial employer near Croydon and started on £26k, but his exam-related payrises were pretty generous which meant his pay shot up quite quickly. So to be honest I don't know that starting salary is that significant either when compared to other factors.

It's hard to say really as regards salary increases, as employers are quite secretive about that sort of thing. I would estimate £500-800 per CT exam and godknowshowmuch for later ones. It probably varies per location as well as per employer. But like everyone else, I have very limited knowledge!

You make it sound like it's a piece of cake to go into investment banking. Getting into that sort of career requires a LOT of work, and most who want it really really badly don't make it. Why would you bust a gut trying to get into something that your heart isn't into? I think it would be plausible for you to get into actuarial work afterwards, but I find it quite a strange plan to be honest. Especially because I consider them vastly different careers to suit very different kinds of people. (Disclaimer: don't know that much about investment banking)

I'm not talking about the content of the everyday work so much as the culture and the sorts of colleagues/lifestyle you'd have. Investment banking, to my prejudiced mind, seems like a highly competitive, "sharkish" atmosphere where people are in it for the money/excitement/status and are happy to work insane hours. Actuaries by comparison are a relatively laid-back bunch. Most of my colleagues are there because they are genuinely interested in maths/problem-solving, they want to help their clients and they enjoy a relatively low-stress atmosphere with excellent security. A lot of them really don't seem that motivated by money. Admittedly, one of the reasons I find your idea so strange is because investment banking to me sounds like my idea of hell, whereas I really like the career I do have.

Anyway, I hope that helps :bhangra: Join us!

Can I ask you a few questions? What type of surroundings do Actuaries work in? Do you work in an office? Do you work there alone for the task you're completing, or are there a lot of people helping you? What sort of clothes do Actuaries need to wear in the workplace? (I like wearing suits )

I've come across a few people that have said that being an Actuary is quite boring, it's their opinion, but I want yours? Why would people find it boring?

True dat. It's been a relatively quiet thread this year, I think. (You know you've been around a long time when you start talking in terms of years.)

CA1, boooo.

Hey! Thanks for the insight. I apologise if I sounded arrogant or even naive to think that i can easily break into IB, that was not intended.

I'm still a student in college, so i still have 4 years until i make a decision where i start working. I am motivated by money, but I really do need enough time to see my friends and family and have fun. IB would be a struggle for me because of the number of hours i would need to work, so I may change my mind on it.

Becoming an Actuary is my long term goal. A starting salary of £30k or close to it is good for me, I would be satisfied with that. Regular working hours from 7:30am-5:30pm is good for someone like me.

Can I ask you a few questions? What type of surroundings do Actuaries work in? Do you work in an office? Do you work there alone for the task you're completing, or are there a lot of people helping you? What sort of clothes do Actuaries need to wear in the workplace? (I like wearing suits )

I've come across a few people that have said that being an Actuary is quite boring, it's their opinion, but I want yours? Why would people find it boring?

I can't remember much either. I think I gave some stats about trains or something? I think we talked about exams and the usual general chit chat. Then there were some foreign students who we talked to. Standard.

As for people who find it boring, it depends. It isn't the sort of work for everyone. It is quite technical, and more often than not you are in the office doing work. But the work is client driven, so no two days are the same. Also I guess it depends on the area you go into. What I like about investments is that you do have to keep up to date with the financial news, and the markets are always changing; and what makes this great is if you client is really engaging and willing to try out different strategies to make the most of their potential returns.

CA1 should die in a ****ing fire. Why is it even an exam? It's neither interesting, nor especially informative or relevant, nor well examined. I'm sure the profession's coffers will be extremely well lined by the time I pass that ****. But then I'm so badly jaded when it comes to exams generally that my views will naturally be quite biased.

Also, hello again all. I don't check TSR much these days - when did all these new up-and-comers appear!?

When will TSR get a cheeky subtle mention in the student column? I haven't seen it yet, Jelkor, and I'm very disappointed.

I didn't mean to make you feel like you sounded arrogant! To be fair, I have an actuarial friend who still thinks he might like to go into IB. I suppose I have a deep-seated prejudice against IB. Sounds awful to me.

I imagine that the vast majority of actuaries work in a regular office environment. I do! My office is very open plan - so the partners don't have their own segregated rooms but work alongside the actuaries/other consultants/students alike. I like this because it allows for more open communication between colleagues of different levels. As for the work itself ... it really depends. I mean, you often have to do tasks yourself alone, but there is usually a process of someone doing a task/someone checking it/someone reviewing it, so you'll have meetings about that stuff, and if you're on a project then you'll have more meetings where you decide who does what and talk about how to do things efficiently. You also learn from people on a day-to-day basis. I think if you're averse to too much people time then a more techy actuarial job might suit (maybe insurance, although there are techy jobs in pensions as well). Clothing-wise, I think it's probably fairly common that on a day-to-day basis actuaries have to dress smartly but not necessarily with a tie (unless you want to). If you had a client meeting you would be expected to dress up more.

I'm curious as to who said being an actuary is boring - I imagine it was someone who isn't an actuary! It's certainly a job that is not for everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who doesn't like maths, for example, or someone who is desperate never to take an exam again. Not every single task I do every day enthralls me, but I find it intellectually stimulating and satisfying as a role, and I love my colleagues, and there's plenty of opportunity for moving on up once I get good at what I'm doing. Also, many things to be thankful for wrt progression/security. People who are easily bored by topics they perceive as "boring" might not love it (e.g. I work in pensions, which doesn't immediately engender excitement! But there's a lot to be interested in).



I'm sure there was something more specific. Why can't I remember??? Lame.



What this dude said. I do love having different work to do every day.



Hello :bhangra: You're so ANGRY. And GRUMPY. I'll get back to you on CA1 when I've passed or failed it. I sense that will inform my opinion. I can't tell all the students about TSR - you wouldn't all the riffraff coming in here, would you? NO. Pleased you've noticed/guessed that I don't write about it TBH.

Must go to bed. Must also grow out of habit of going online and writing things when back from nights out. Although I can reveal that I went to Heston Blumenthal's restaurant this evening and that Russell Brand was there. He was toying with his phone and looked bored, but STILL. Actuaries hang out with celebrities at celebrities' restaurants. You heard it here.

Must go to bed. Must also grow out of habit of going online and writing things when back from nights out. Although I can reveal that I went to Heston Blumenthal's restaurant this evening and that Russell Brand was there. He was toying with his phone and looked bored, but STILL. Actuaries hang out with celebrities at celebrities' restaurants. You heard it here.

Regular working hours from 7:30am-5:30pm is good for someone like me.

Hello :bhangra: You're so ANGRY. And GRUMPY. I'll get back to you on CA1 when I've passed or failed it. I sense that will inform my opinion. I can't tell all the students about TSR - you wouldn't all the riffraff coming in here, would you? NO. Pleased you've noticed/guessed that I don't write about it TBH.

Must go to bed. Must also grow out of habit of going online and writing things when back from nights out. Although I can reveal that I went to Heston Blumenthal's restaurant this evening and that Russell Brand was there. He was toying with his phone and looked bored, but STILL. Actuaries hang out with celebrities at celebrities' restaurants. You heard it here.

The one thing I wish someone had told me before I started, is that the 9-5 thing is generally a myth - it's not like IB where you're expected to work 80-100 hours a week every week, however, I would certainly say that an average of 1-2 times a week I might as well write off my evening to ensure I can go home before 6 on one of the other days in the office.

I didn't mean to make you feel like you sounded arrogant! To be fair, I have an actuarial friend who still thinks he might like to go into IB. I suppose I have a deep-seated prejudice against IB. Sounds awful to me.

I imagine that the vast majority of actuaries work in a regular office environment. I do! My office is very open plan - so the partners don't have their own segregated rooms but work alongside the actuaries/other consultants/students alike. I like this because it allows for more open communication between colleagues of different levels. As for the work itself ... it really depends. I mean, you often have to do tasks yourself alone, but there is usually a process of someone doing a task/someone checking it/someone reviewing it, so you'll have meetings about that stuff, and if you're on a project then you'll have more meetings where you decide who does what and talk about how to do things efficiently. You also learn from people on a day-to-day basis. I think if you're averse to too much people time then a more techy actuarial job might suit (maybe insurance, although there are techy jobs in pensions as well). Clothing-wise, I think it's probably fairly common that on a day-to-day basis actuaries have to dress smartly but not necessarily with a tie (unless you want to). If you had a client meeting you would be expected to dress up more.

I'm curious as to who said being an actuary is boring - I imagine it was someone who isn't an actuary! It's certainly a job that is not for everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who doesn't like maths, for example, or someone who is desperate never to take an exam again. Not every single task I do every day enthralls me, but I find it intellectually stimulating and satisfying as a role, and I love my colleagues, and there's plenty of opportunity for moving on up once I get good at what I'm doing. Also, many things to be thankful for wrt progression/security. People who are easily bored by topics they perceive as "boring" might not love it (e.g. I work in pensions, which doesn't immediately engender excitement! But there's a lot to be interested in).

Stay away from consultancies then.

Starting at 7.30 might work (though you'd be the first one in the office at that time where I work) for getting away at 5.30, but you have to remember, you're more likely to get something in mid-afternoon that needs to go that day than something that comes in at 8am, so you could have a laid back morning and a hectic afternoon (and evening).

As it stands, the longest day I've done so far is 0730-2345 (and that's only because I've no way home after that other than charging a £70 taxi to the client I'm working for, and I prefer not to do that).

The one thing I wish someone had told me before I started, is that the 9-5 thing is generally a myth - it's not like IB where you're expected to work 80-100 hours a week every week, however, I would certainly say that an average of 1-2 times a week I might as well write off my evening to ensure I can go home before 6 on one of the other days in the office.

hmmmm, 1-2 days of working longer hours every week doesn't seem TOO bad. 7:30am - 11:45pm seems absolutely crazy though.

What's with all this starting at 7.30am?! Is that the new normal?

The description of why you like working as an actuary made me so happy because it sounds like exactly what I love to do! It's so nice to have worked out what I want to do with my life xD

But it's Russell Brand. Eeeew!

[spoller]I saw Blumenthal at the opening of Dinner, his Kensington place, and at Sushi of Shiori. He's very orange!

Stay away from consultancies then.

Starting at 7.30 might work (though you'd be the first one in the office at that time where I work) for getting away at 5.30, but you have to remember, you're more likely to get something in mid-afternoon that needs to go that day than something that comes in at 8am, so you could have a laid back morning and a hectic afternoon (and evening).

As it stands, the longest day I've done so far is 0730-2345 (and that's only because I've no way home after that other than charging a £70 taxi to the client I'm working for, and I prefer not to do that).

The one thing I wish someone had told me before I started, is that the 9-5 thing is generally a myth - it's not like IB where you're expected to work 80-100 hours a week every week, however, I would certainly say that an average of 1-2 times a week I might as well write off my evening to ensure I can go home before 6 on one of the other days in the office.

Yeah I did sound a bit angry, now I read it back. Sorry about that! I'm otherwise quite happy atm though, oddly enough. I recently got a new job, and only realised after starting there how badly I needed the change. With the odd exception when my interest was piqued, I was pretty much coasting in my old job throughout 2013, but even then I was still getting above-average performance review scores so maybe I wasn't and morale in the wider team was generally very low

My latest ever stint at work ended at about 9pm, and I think the second longest stint ended well before that kind of late hour. I imagine the pay isn't quite as good, but insurers ftw (I think!). I usually do a 9-5.30pm on average at the moment, and could pretty much guarantee I'd be out of the door by 6pm on any given day.

Hey Jelkin,

Can I ask you how many hours you work in a daily basis? Is it from 7:30am - 5:30pm, or longer hours than that? Would you normally get two days off every week? I love working and studying hard, but everyone needs time off to have fun.

How's the atmosphere in the office? Do you like the people you work with? Does it ever get boring, or do your colleagues crack jokes now and then to keep yourselves entertained? Also, which company do you work for currently?

Do you see yourself working as an Actuary for the next 15-20 years? If so, would you be likely to earn near £200k? Apparently senior actuaries typically make £250k a year, which sounds crazy.

So many questions, sorry about that ...

Blimey, yours sounds a bit more hardcore than mine. I think for my job it depends a lot on how you manage your workload and how ambitious you are - some people choose to take on a lot of projects/work, which builds their skills more and might mean they progress faster, but some people would rather aim for a 9-5 kind of job so they don't really do that. It is tricky, though - because client work is irregular, it can be hard to control when you're going to be snowed under and when you'll have a comfortable workload. This is why I need to get better at delegation Some people manage to get away at 5pm on the dot every day and I don't know how they do it! To be fair, I start later than a lot of people so I stay later to make up for it.

...

I don't fancy Russell Brand really but I find him oddly likeable. Did you know, Heston was nearly blinded when having a toilet brush fight with Lee Dixon? True story.

Blimey, yours sounds a bit more hardcore than mine. I think for my job it depends a lot on how you manage your workload and how ambitious you are - some people choose to take on a lot of projects/work, which builds their skills more and might mean they progress faster, but some people would rather aim for a 9-5 kind of job so they don't really do that. It is tricky, though - because client work is irregular, it can be hard to control when you're going to be snowed under and when you'll have a comfortable workload. This is why I need to get better at delegation Some people manage to get away at 5pm on the dot every day and I don't know how they do it! To be fair, I start later than a lot of people so I stay later to make up for it.

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Are you still in your old workplace? If so, I need to PM you to ask about something...

Yeah I think that's right to an extent. In my current workplace, lots of people work late, including me. It's not a great mindset to be honest, and I'm trying to get out of it (this year I've been pretty good at leaving the office on time, or relatively on time). Even in this year though, a stupid project has meant two weeks of working up until midnight. At Johnny's company, I've worked until 3am and there have been plenty of times where I've worked upto midnight. Apart from one crazy woman (who was a manager but I quickly moved alongside her), the work at Johnny's place was interesting. Mostly I had to stick around until I could talk to the chief actuary, who was too busy arguing with other people in meetings. That was rather entertaining, and for a while I was single then so it didn't impact me as much.

The longest I've ever worked consecutively is 47.5 hours at KPMG. That sounds mental, but was loads of fun. The director gave us all a choice and was honest about it - and then made sure we were well looked after, and then took us out loads (and gave us holidays too).

Hah, sorry I called you grumpy, it was all in jesst. Is your new job in pricing still? I think you can get into a bit of a slump where you're sort of coasting along but conversely it makes you less happy than when you're busy and having to try harder. Probably because your motivation is low. How's the new place?

I think my latest ever would be 11ish, but that is rare. I've been through a few really awful patches (which always seem to coincide with exam periods), but generally it's just the odd day where I stay late. A friend at work says he likes to set a day each week where he'll stay late and get a lot done so that the rest of the week is manageable, and I can see how that works, because once you've accepted that you'll stay late that day it probably makes it easier psychologically.

I agree that hours in insurance are probably going to be more regular than in consultancies, but the work probably is as well? I think both have their merits. I'd love to try out insurance but that doesn't really work in practice! I think I must be quite lucky because it's faaairly unusual for me to be around later than 6-6:30, and even then that's usually because I've been really unproductive that day or I got in late or something.