Teacher=Epic fail. Plain form and present form help? Exam!

As you can see our seminar leader is the biggest waste of space, and keeps giving us the wrong descriptions/definitions. I'm having trouble with the difference between the plain form and plain present. The definitions she gave us were:

Plain form: Identical with lexical base of the word. NOT inflected with tense (book says is also not in the present tense) and Plain present: inflected for tense also identical with lexical base, usually indicates present time (book says used in present tense and in either plural, first person and second person)

When applying this to examples the answers don't match up:

"The twins, he says, seem quite distraught (the underlined verb being plain present)
"It would be best not to say anything about it" (plain form)

Could somebody either show me where I'm going wrong or give me a better definition?!

Reply 1

merkatron

2

Original post by melonhead12

Could somebody either show me where I'm going wrong or give me a better definition?!

I don't normally respond to posts slagging off teachers, but bah humbug aside, here goes...

According to Huddlestone and Pullum, the plain form is used with the imperative, the subjunctive and infinitival forms. They define it as consisting "simply of the lexical base, the plain base without any suffix or other modification".

I reckon that would be your 2nd example then, as it's an infinitival construction. The first example looks to me to be just the simple present form. It appears the same as the plain form, but I don't know if it's necessarily helpful to call it a plain present. Does that help? Or am I an epic fail too?

Reply 2

R3L4Y

1

Original post by merkatron

I don't normally respond to posts slagging off teachers, but bah humbug aside, here goes...

According to Huddlestone and Pullum, the plain form is used with the imperative, the subjunctive and infinitival forms. They define it as consisting "simply of the lexical base, the plain base without any suffix or other modification".

I reckon that would be your 2nd example then, as it's an infinitival construction. The first example looks to me to be just the simple present form. It appears the same as the plain form, but I don't know if it's necessarily helpful to call it a plain present. Does that help? Or am I an epic fail too?

I've always been told that english doesn't have subjunctive, instead the plain form (infinitive) is used e.g. to have, to run, to say. Plain present therefore, I assume is the conjugation of any verbs..in the present...(he has, he runs, etc.)

Spoiler

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 3

faber niger

17

Isn't the "plain form" just the infinitive? Why are they filling your heads with nonsense? :ninja:

English does have a subjunctive, however, it simply looks like the infinitive with "to" removed.

Anyway, your book seems to draw a distinction between "the plain form" and "the plain present", but says nonetheless that they are identical (except in the third person present where an -s is usually added, e.g. comes). It all sounds like mumbo jumbo to me veiling the fact that English grammar is so bloody simple! :biggrin:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 4

R3L4Y

1

Original post by jismith1989

Isn't the "plain form" just the infinitive? Why are they filling your heads with nonsense? :biggrin:

English does have a subjunctive, however, it simply looks like the infinitive with "to" removed. English grammar all looks the same!

English grammar fcking rocks....it's the reason why it's the universal language.. (I'm talking about proper british english btw)

Reply 5

faber niger

17

Original post by R3L4Y

English grammar fcking rocks....it's the reason why it's the universal language.. (I'm talking about proper british english btw)

Yeah, that and a few hundred years of Anglo-American world hegemony. :wink:

English grammar might rock, but, compared to most other languages in the world, it's pretty simple.

Reply 6

R3L4Y

1

Original post by jismith1989

Yeah, that and a few hundred years of Anglo-American world hegemony. :wink:

English grammar might rock, but, compared to most other languages in the world, it's pretty simple.

haha trust me, I kno. ...which is why I think is a real challenge for english natives to learn another language...it IS extremely hard if even basic grammar concepts aren't taught at schools. and Some moods and cases don't even exist! and no fem/male/neut. .....Its like language paradise!! :nutcase:

Spoiler

Reply 7

markrush

11

Original post by merkatron

I don't normally respond to posts slagging off teachers, but bah humbug aside, here goes...

Sometimes you have to. There was a Physics lecturer that we used to end up having a system to take in turns to correct.

Favourite moment: Coursework question set. Coursework question answered. Coursework answer wrong as although we had answer the question he set correctly he had meant to ask a different question.

Reply 8

merkatron

2

Original post by markrush

Sometimes you have to. There was a Physics lecturer that we used to end up having a system to take in turns to correct.

Favourite moment: Coursework question set. Coursework question answered. Coursework answer wrong as although we had answer the question he set correctly he had meant to ask a different question.