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Barrister possibilities for a non-oxbridge grad
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Fluffy
What was she suggesting then???
That by the end of your working days, you're quids in/loaded/in the money/swimming in it.
Fluffy
End of your working days? I don't think I know a single retired bar monkey - they go on until:
a) they die
b) they become a judge!
a) they die
b) they become a judge!
By which time, they're already raking it in.
President_Ben
By which time, they're already raking it in.
Takes a while...
My boyfs earning were terrible for the first few years post pupilage. And some chambers have stupid fees policies. My boyf turned down his first few tenency offers as the chambers in question operated on a set rent per month basis, rather than a set % of your income... Starting out really is not easy... Not many reach the heady heights of having money and a life...
A lot of barristers exit the profession within the first few years and retrain and bugger off to the dark side of the evil peeps covered by The Law Society
Not to mention the amount of people who fail to secure a pupilage within the repcribed vaildity of their BVC result, and the masses of peeps who do not get tenancy...
legal_mc
Ive just been rejected from Cambridge, and at the moment have an offer from KCL. I was told by a tutor that 98% of barristers are oxbridge graduates, and that for me to become a barrister after studying at KCL was next to impossible. This surely isnt true? Firstly, i wouldnt have thought 98% of barristers were from oxbridge. Secondly, i thought a first or a 2.1 from KCL would be good enough for me to do the BVC and pupillage???
Any advice??????
Any advice??????
Im a first year student at KCL. Getting a 2:1 is important in terms of job prospects so aim for that. 98% oxbridge students is an exaggeration. The university you graduate from has some importance and KCL does have good job prospects. Don't worry about it.
red_roadkill
I did work experience at Wilberforce Chambers and I shadowed Judge Mettyear last February half term.
Have you done any other legal work exp in Hull?
Have you done any other legal work exp in Hull?
Hi, I was not referring to Wilberforce Chambers in Hull. I was refering to the top chancery set in London. On this occasion, I was the only non-oxbridge/KCL student. Just making the point that they took me despite being Hull student. I found their application when looking for the one in Hull and applied and was amazed to be taken.
BUT
I have seen Judge Mettyear too. My Grandad used to lecture him at Nottingham Trent, but I don't think he likes people knowing he went there for some reason. 
In fact, Judge Thorn seems to be a regular at the uni these days. My personal favourite is Judge Cracknell, he really throws some sharp punchs when sentencing not that the objective of the exercise is entertainment for me.Wilberforce in Hull is cool. January Scott judged our Blackstones. When I was there ages ago they had a nice common room (hope that is not private)
I was thinking of applying to Williamsons/ Stamp Jackson this summer. What about you?
red_roadkill
Omfg Judge Thorn, Judge Cracknell! Met them both! Daddio got me the work experience, he knows them both.
Not doing any work exp this summer as I'm going on Camp America
In fact I'm constantly being put off the idea of a legal career
I don't think I stand a chance tbh.
Not doing any work exp this summer as I'm going on Camp America
In fact I'm constantly being put off the idea of a legal career
I don't think I stand a chance tbh.
You jammy person getting your camp America thing filled in on time.
Honestly, Hull is far superior to America So many nice sights to see in Hull, such as the King William Car Park near the courts).Enjoy Camp, think of me, who might yet escape Hull
legal_mc
Ive just been rejected from Cambridge, and at the moment have an offer from KCL. I was told by a tutor that 98% of barristers are oxbridge graduates, and that for me to become a barrister after studying at KCL was next to impossible.
That is rubbish.
According to the Sutton Trust
"In terms of Higher Education, in 2004 82 percent of UK-educated barristers had attended Oxford or Cambridge, as had 81 percent of judges and 53% of the ’magic circle’ partners."
So where does the 98% figure come from ?
That was the percentage of barristers from leading law schools ( UCL, Durham, LSE, Nottingham) in 1989. It has decreased to 93% now.
"Looking slightly more broadly, almost all the top barristers and solicitors in our sample had been educated at one of the universities with the most highly rated law departments, and this has remained relatively static. In 1989, 98 percent of barristers had attended one of these leading institutions compared with 93 percent in the 2004 sample."
KCL, QM and other law schools contribute the remaining 7%
Fluffy
The Bar does not pay well when you set out...
Erm... I never suggested it did! The Barristers I was referrring to were mostly in the 40-65 age range... and age is irrelevant to the point I was making, just as it was not mentioned by the original poster.
I am well aware, Miss Medic, that the Bar is not necessarily the lottery ticket career which some believe it to be (especially at the beginning); but I'm not sure it's correct to say 'The Bar does not pay well when you set out...' - I'm sure there are people, other than your beloved, who've been very successful from the outset.
Surely most 99.9% of carears do not pay tremendous somes of money from the onset? And of all professions the legal sector is towards the top end of the 'starting your carear' pay scale along with banking (mentioned in a different thread). Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but compared to other graduate jobs it is not terrible by any means.
Side note, interesting thread which mentioned the Sutton trust. If you did a LLM or BCL at a 'leading law school' and your LLB was not does that make you a graduate of a 'leading law school' and thus take you into those figures? or do you remain a non leading law school graduate?
Side note, interesting thread which mentioned the Sutton trust. If you did a LLM or BCL at a 'leading law school' and your LLB was not does that make you a graduate of a 'leading law school' and thus take you into those figures? or do you remain a non leading law school graduate?
fundamentally
That is rubbish.
According to the Sutton Trust
"Looking slightly more broadly, almost all the top barristers and solicitors in our sample had been educated at one of the universities with the most highly rated law departments, and this has remained relatively static. In 1989, 98 percent of barristers had attended one of these leading institutions compared with 93 percent in the 2004 sample."
KCL, QM and other law schools contribute the remaining 7%
According to the Sutton Trust
"Looking slightly more broadly, almost all the top barristers and solicitors in our sample had been educated at one of the universities with the most highly rated law departments, and this has remained relatively static. In 1989, 98 percent of barristers had attended one of these leading institutions compared with 93 percent in the 2004 sample."
KCL, QM and other law schools contribute the remaining 7%
KCL would undoubtedly be regarded as "one of the universities with the most highly rated law departments" and so the 7% you attribute to KCL is purely your own attribution based on your own assumptions. In fact in a footnote later on in the report they state:
The top 12 legal universities have been identified on the basis of the highest average rankings in leagues tables for law published in The Times and The Guardian and the overall table of tables published in The Telegraph. They are Cambridge, Oxford, UCL, Nottingham, LSE, Durham, SOAS, Manchester, Warwick, King’s College London, Bristol and Edinburgh.
Lauren18
I am well aware, Miss Medic, that the Bar is not necessarily the lottery ticket career which some believe it to be (especially at the beginning); but I'm not sure it's correct to say 'The Bar does not pay well when you set out...' - I'm sure there are people, other than your beloved, who've been very successful from the outset.
I am well aware, Miss Medic, that the Bar is not necessarily the lottery ticket career which some believe it to be (especially at the beginning); but I'm not sure it's correct to say 'The Bar does not pay well when you set out...' - I'm sure there are people, other than your beloved, who've been very successful from the outset.
Oooh! Get her! Little Miss Student!
I know shed loads of bar monkeys now though my boyf, who has just left a very good chambers to be an in-house barrister (admittedly with a nice salary!). There are not that many places where you start off on the mega bucks... The killer is usually chambers fees and having to take any old **** work, because if you piss the clerks off by not accepting things you wont get any work, period...
If you are in it for the money don't bother going to the Bar: there are significantly easier ways of earning comparative or even larger sums of money, ie in a law firm, merchant banking, or stock broking. The Bar is a way of life- a vocation rather than a job. You will find the majority of entrants to the Bar especially in criminal, family and general common law will earn significantly less than people with comparable qualifications at City law firms; and the early years the work in such fields can be a matter of being sent all over the country to pursue small pieces of advocacy.
That said there are a number of Chambers especially in the tax, chancery and commercial fields where one will from pupillage earn substantially more than an employed barrister/trainee solicitor, there are also chambers which exempt their new tenants from contributions, or whom guarantee a certain quantity in terms of receipts. There is indeed a "pay war" between certain sectors of the Bar for pupillage awards.
That said there are a number of Chambers especially in the tax, chancery and commercial fields where one will from pupillage earn substantially more than an employed barrister/trainee solicitor, there are also chambers which exempt their new tenants from contributions, or whom guarantee a certain quantity in terms of receipts. There is indeed a "pay war" between certain sectors of the Bar for pupillage awards.
PDJM
If you are in it for the money don't bother going to the Bar: there are significantly easier ways of earning comparative or even larger sums of money, ie in a law firm, merchant banking, or stock broking. The Bar is a way of life- a vocation rather than a job. You will find the majority of entrants to the Bar especially in criminal, family and general common law will earn significantly less than people with comparable qualifications at City law firms; and the early years the work in such fields can be a matter of being sent all over the country to pursue small pieces of advocacy.
That said there are a number of Chambers especially in the tax, chancery and commercial fields where one will from pupillage earn substantially more than an employed barrister/trainee solicitor, there are also chambers which exempt their new tenants from contributions, or whom guarantee a certain quantity in terms of receipts. There is indeed a "pay war" between certain sectors of the Bar for pupillage awards.
That said there are a number of Chambers especially in the tax, chancery and commercial fields where one will from pupillage earn substantially more than an employed barrister/trainee solicitor, there are also chambers which exempt their new tenants from contributions, or whom guarantee a certain quantity in terms of receipts. There is indeed a "pay war" between certain sectors of the Bar for pupillage awards.
Very interesting post. Add to the hard work for comparably small somes of money the idea that following a BVC, a student who has gone pretty much straight through (degree, bvc bare minimum) may hold around £20 K worth of debt (bare minimum) which in my opinion will not be imune to payments as your wage will probably just sneak over the mark for repayments to start (about £17 500 I think).
octanethriller
KCL would undoubtedly be regarded as "one of the universities with the most highly rated law departments"
I beg to disagree.
I have relatives in law ( including in senior positions who actually hire other lawyers and make decisions on training contracts ) and they uniformly view KCL as a upper mid-level law school.
ie: not bad, but certainly not top 10. Graduates from UCL, LSE, Warwick, Nottingham, Manchester Durham and of course Oxford and Cambridge are going to be viewed more favourably.
On the other hand, KCL is far better than Birbeck, City, Goldsmiths, Leeds Met, London Met and many others.
Related discussions
- GDL vs 'LLM' ... or GDL + LLM vs 'MA' Law
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