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Should England join the US and leave the EU?
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By your logic I suppose we should all be bailed out by... ah yes Kuwait and Bahrain!
Original post by DYKWIA
I stand by everything I said. Also, by short space of time I mean pretty much from WWI to now, that was when we experienced rapid growth as a superpower.
I stand by everything I said. Also, by short space of time I mean pretty much from WWI to now, that was when we experienced rapid growth as a superpower.
One could argue the same about Britain during the Industrial Revolution. The USA is not alone in having "rapid growth as a superpower", in fact we're currently in the process of watching China enjoy the same rapid growth.
Of course, we know Britain's appalling human rights track record during the industrial revolution, America's repeated uncalled for military intervension during their rise to superpower status and China's shady govermental policies means that becoming an economic superpower does not a great country make.
Original post by DYKWIA
I don't think burning the flag should be illegal. Sure, it is disgusting and I hate people who do it. But to ban flag burning goes against everything the flag stands for - namely freedom of expression.
Fwiw, I don't wanna burn a Koran, but i do want the right to burn one if I choose.
Fwiw, I don't wanna burn a Koran, but i do want the right to burn one if I choose.
You know what - I agree!
Original post by davidlll
You know what - I agree!
you agree with me on something!
btw, it's not true what they say about us not getting irony.
Original post by Andythepiano
I know the difficulties americans have with flag burning, but at the end of the day, it is only piece of cloth. Now, I realise it is not illegal to burn a flag in the USA, but it would still cause a lot of americans to be very upset indeed, and that can't be a good thing.
The husband of a british friend of mine is an american diplomat and I know that we was apopleptic with rage when she made a family thanksgiving display incorporating the american flag. The problem was the flag was partially covered by other items. He was still going on about it for days after. Not being brought up in a "salute the flag" culture, it's difficult to imagine how easily americans can be offended by such small things.
Thus it is with the moslems and the koran. If you own a copy of the koran in the UK, that you don't want any more, what you do with it is up to you - it is after all your property. Burn it, flush it down the toilet whatever. If you make a big thing of it though, video it, put it on Youtube etc, doing it publicly, that then is then incitement to violence, and is quite rightly illegal.
The husband of a british friend of mine is an american diplomat and I know that we was apopleptic with rage when she made a family thanksgiving display incorporating the american flag. The problem was the flag was partially covered by other items. He was still going on about it for days after. Not being brought up in a "salute the flag" culture, it's difficult to imagine how easily americans can be offended by such small things.
Thus it is with the moslems and the koran. If you own a copy of the koran in the UK, that you don't want any more, what you do with it is up to you - it is after all your property. Burn it, flush it down the toilet whatever. If you make a big thing of it though, video it, put it on Youtube etc, doing it publicly, that then is then incitement to violence, and is quite rightly illegal.
Your friends husband doesn't represent all of us. He just represents himself. In the 1990s Marilyn Manson used to drop his pants on stage and wipe his ass with the American flag and no one cared. Many Americans are uncomfortable with the flag being disrespected but many don't care either
I think it's dumb and pointless to wipe your ass with a flag in front on thousands of people but I respect his right to do it
Original post by BioFurMatPhyStudent
We do have the freedom to choose a healthcare provider and own a gun (you only need a licence for it).
Why would you even want to do the last one?
Why would you even want to do the last one?
You have to put yourself in our shoes to understand. The rights given to us by the constitution are sacred to us. Time and time again the courts in this country have ruled that burning books is an expression of free speech. The fact that you can not burn a book like the Koran in Britain is extremely offensive to us because of how we were brought up and how important the first amendment is
Also it's a very slippery slope. Today it's a ****ty book like the koran, tomorrow what else will be banned? What about Scientology books, can those be burned? What about a book about the flying spaghetti monster? Before you know it you wake up one morning and all your rights to self expression are gone
Original post by ifstatement
America... This is exactly why the rest of the world hates you, DYKWIA is the sole example of the reason why.
The world doesn't hate us. Have you researched polls taken to see what the most hated countries are? Iran, north Korea, and Pakistan are tops and the US isn't even in the running
Original post by Made in the USA
Also it's a very slippery slope. Today it's a ****ty book like the koran, tomorrow what else will be banned? What about Scientology books, can those be burned? What about a book about the flying spaghetti monster? Before you know it you wake up one morning and all your rights to self expression are gone
Also it's a very slippery slope. Today it's a ****ty book like the koran, tomorrow what else will be banned? What about Scientology books, can those be burned? What about a book about the flying spaghetti monster? Before you know it you wake up one morning and all your rights to self expression are gone
I'm pretty sure that it has already been said, but I will repeat it again: Burning the Koran is not illegal. Inciting racial hatred is however. So if the police believe that in the process of burning the Koran (or a Scientology book, or poppies etc.) the burner is attempting to make an anti-Muslim statement , then yes, that is grounds for arrest and legal action.
I believe that everyone has the right to free speech, but I also believe that everyone has the right to not be discriminated against. When someone exercising their right to free speech infringes on someone else's rights, then something should be done.
For example, if someone were to threaten to kill someone, you wouldn't brush it off by saying that they are simply exercising their right to free speech.
Original post by welshyelmo
I'm pretty sure that it has already been said, but I will repeat it again: Burning the Koran is not illegal. Inciting racial hatred is however. So if the police believe that in the process of burning the Koran (or a Scientology book, or poppies etc.) the burner is attempting to make an anti-Muslim statement , then yes, that is grounds for arrest and legal action.
I believe that everyone has the right to free speech, but I also believe that everyone has the right to not be discriminated against. When someone exercising their right to free speech infringes on someone else's rights, then something should be done.
For example, if someone were to threaten to kill someone, you wouldn't brush it off by saying that they are simply exercising their right to free speech.
I believe that everyone has the right to free speech, but I also believe that everyone has the right to not be discriminated against. When someone exercising their right to free speech infringes on someone else's rights, then something should be done.
For example, if someone were to threaten to kill someone, you wouldn't brush it off by saying that they are simply exercising their right to free speech.
Our laws are very different because we support the rights of the individual over some jihadist who might be offended. That's why Obama could not stop the pastor in Florida from burning the Koran. He said many times he hoped he wouldn't do it but that was all he could do because he had legal authority to stop him.
Original post by Made in the USA
Our laws are very different because we support the rights of the individual over some jihadist who might be offended. That's why Obama could not stop the pastor in Florida from burning the Koran. He said many times he hoped he wouldn't do it but that was all he could do because he had legal authority to stop him.
But it's not just a jihadist who would be offended; there are millions of muslims living in America who wouldn't like the thought of some racist idiot burning their holy text in a blatant attempt to stir up hate against them. I just don't know why the racist's rights should be protected over the rights of millions who have done nothing wrong.
And the fact that no-one had the legal authority to stop that awful pastor from burning the Koran just makes me sad. Thank God he didn't actually do it in the end.
Original post by Made in the USA
Our laws are very different because we support the rights of the individual over some jihadist who might be offended. That's why Obama could not stop the pastor in Florida from burning the Koran. He said many times he hoped he wouldn't do it but that was all he could do because he had legal authority to stop him.
Have you ever considered that burning the koran might offend the moderate and liberal muslims too?
If I burn the bible do you think only uber extreme christians will be offended? Of course not.
I love how when you post something proving someone's point wrong on here, they completely ignore you and just reply to other people.
The americans who were arguing with me = fail at debates and really should give up.
The americans who were arguing with me = fail at debates and really should give up.
Original post by welshyelmo
But it's not just a jihadist who would be offended; there are millions of muslims living in America who wouldn't like the thought of some racist idiot burning their holy text in a blatant attempt to stir up hate against them. I just don't know why the racist's rights should be protected over the rights of millions who have done nothing wrong.
And the fact that no-one had the legal authority to stop that awful pastor from burning the Koran just makes me sad. Thank God he didn't actually do it in the end.
And the fact that no-one had the legal authority to stop that awful pastor from burning the Koran just makes me sad. Thank God he didn't actually do it in the end.
Thank god he didn't do it? He did burn the Koran and I'm glad he did. We need to exercise our civil liberties. If you don't use them you lose them
Courts have also upheld the right of the KKK (all ten of them) to march throughjewish neighborhoods. You seem to not understand free speech. Offensive speech is the kind of speech that needs to be protected. Inoffensive speech doesn't need protection. If only inoffensive speech is permitted then you don't have free speech
Original post by gm15
Have you ever considered that burning the koran might offend the moderate and liberal muslims too?
If I burn the bible do you think only uber extreme christians will be offended? Of course not.
If I burn the bible do you think only uber extreme christians will be offended? Of course not.
They are going to have to learn to deal with it. They are living in our society and need to abide by our rules. In this society we have free speech. If they don't like it they can go back to the hell hole they came from where they kill people over a cartoon
Original post by DYKWIA
The US and UK have far more in common than people realize; far more so than someone from texas and someone from the east coast anyway and defiantly more in common than uk and France for example. A lot of Americans wanna move to britain (me included) and I get the feeling a lot of Brits wanna move too. It would be a really great thing for both countries to have the stability of being part of the largest and best country in the world.
or the USA should rejoin the british empire
Original post by big-boss-91
or the USA should rejoin the british empire
haha, no. We like our freedom.
No, just no!
Ignoring the fact that i do not want us to leave the EU, i will explain the reasons why we should not become the 51st state..
1) Economically - As a Tory i do have an affinity for a lot of your economic policies however in terms of education, health and finance you have certainly gone too far (i do recognize that there must be a social element) - This however i could probably stomach and just campaign for reform.
2) Socially - You have ghettos which make the ones in London look nice, you support the right to bear arms, you are homophobic, you actually allow the KKK to exist, you have a regressive tax policy, you are far too religious to the extent that i have heard that the church funds the Republican Party - i could go on..
Come to think of it, as long as the Republican Party exists in America then i would definitely oppose such a move. The Democrats at least seem close to the Tories in core ideals.
Ignoring the fact that i do not want us to leave the EU, i will explain the reasons why we should not become the 51st state..
1) Economically - As a Tory i do have an affinity for a lot of your economic policies however in terms of education, health and finance you have certainly gone too far (i do recognize that there must be a social element) - This however i could probably stomach and just campaign for reform.
2) Socially - You have ghettos which make the ones in London look nice, you support the right to bear arms, you are homophobic, you actually allow the KKK to exist, you have a regressive tax policy, you are far too religious to the extent that i have heard that the church funds the Republican Party - i could go on..
Come to think of it, as long as the Republican Party exists in America then i would definitely oppose such a move. The Democrats at least seem close to the Tories in core ideals.
We don't have a regressive tax system. We might not tax high-earners at 40 to 50% as we should be doing, but in no way is our system regressive. In fact, not even 50% of the people pay taxes to begin with.
We are not homophobic, there are more states (Generally Conservative Iowa included) that have legalized gay marriage than in the UK. The fact that it will happen in 2015 doesn't mean it is.
We allow the KKK to march because we believe in free expression to the fullest. If we did not allow the KKK to march we would fall down an incredibly slippery slope, soon one in which the incumbent government has the authority to protect its own status. See the thing about "hate speech" is that it's ambiguous and that freedom can be exploited.
We are less religious than you guys. We have a clearly defined separation between church and state. Last I checked you guys don't, now do you?
We are not homophobic, there are more states (Generally Conservative Iowa included) that have legalized gay marriage than in the UK. The fact that it will happen in 2015 doesn't mean it is.
We allow the KKK to march because we believe in free expression to the fullest. If we did not allow the KKK to march we would fall down an incredibly slippery slope, soon one in which the incumbent government has the authority to protect its own status. See the thing about "hate speech" is that it's ambiguous and that freedom can be exploited.
We are less religious than you guys. We have a clearly defined separation between church and state. Last I checked you guys don't, now do you?
Original post by Made in the USA
The world doesn't hate us. Have you researched polls taken to see what the most hated countries are? Iran, north Korea, and Pakistan are tops and the US isn't even in the running
In terms of first would countries the United States is the most hated country, fact. I can not think of another first world country more hated than the United States.
The argument is still going no where, seems like some are stuck on gun laws, healthcare and freedom of speech issues.... all of which are minor in comparison.
Much better to instead focus on the benefits it could bring, for starters there are many American technologies in the defence industry that would then be open for exploitation by British companies.... well hoping at least... imagine if BAe could also have access to some of the stealth technologies.
Maybe Britain could learn how to manage its government spending a lil better.... no need to build an aircraft carrier and even before it is commissioned already talk on scuttling it.
Economics wise, there are many benefits that could be gained from an economic union... for the most part most social policies could remain.
All else fails, could always use it as a way to export the unwanted out of the country.... somewhat like how Britain once had Australia as a penal colony
Why not?? They have still yet to thank or even pay for America liberating them.
Much better to instead focus on the benefits it could bring, for starters there are many American technologies in the defence industry that would then be open for exploitation by British companies.... well hoping at least... imagine if BAe could also have access to some of the stealth technologies.
Maybe Britain could learn how to manage its government spending a lil better.... no need to build an aircraft carrier and even before it is commissioned already talk on scuttling it.
Economics wise, there are many benefits that could be gained from an economic union... for the most part most social policies could remain.
All else fails, could always use it as a way to export the unwanted out of the country.... somewhat like how Britain once had Australia as a penal colony
Original post by arra
By your logic I suppose we should all be bailed out by... ah yes Kuwait and Bahrain!
Why not?? They have still yet to thank or even pay for America liberating them.
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