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5 months gym but small gains. Why?

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    (Original post by mikestraws)
    Dumbest post ever. You think SS or SL makes people fat? The way you eat makes you fat. Here's someone else who only does compound lifts.


    Funny how an entire argument changes when you select what pictures you use.
    He looks good. I wonder how much his lifts went down following a cut?
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    1) As a noob you'd benefit more from a full body routine than a split.
    2) Look up Starting Strength.
    3) Your diet is off for putting on muscle. Try and get more protein from food which will help with getting more calories, and you need way more calories! Ideally as much as possible from unsaturates and complex carbs. Cut the white rice, eat brown rice/pasta/bread, quinoa etc. Save the simple carbs and sugars for pre and post-workout. Your breakfast is really the only meal I'd call good. With all that protein but no energy to use it, it'll just go to waste. You may want to consider GOMAD (gallon of milk a day). I'm on half GOMAD due to lactose sensitivity and it's really good.
    "Full body workout"

    Horrific...horrific advice.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    As ill-informed as he seems to be - he's got a point about Starting Strength. If you follow the nutrition advice in the back of the book (GOMAD) then you will gain alot of fat. The gallon of milk on top of 2-3 other solid meals is overkill.

    I'm 4 months into SS and my bodyfat percentage is 22-25%. The numbers are shooting up and I feel like they will be no stalls on squat, deadlift or bench press this week, but I look like ****. It's frustrating because carrying this much fat just makes you look plain unhealthy, and the comfort of squatting more than you ever have before is little comfort when you see your reflection. However, the main thing for me is the fact that I KNOW how to cut and I KNOW that I could lose the fat if I wanted to - I wouldn't have much of an issue with dieting down or doing cardio - but persisting to bulk whilst looking like **** is really difficult.

    I can only hope that being able to lift so much on the compound lifts will hold me in better stead for any routine I do after a cut. I'm guessing someone who can bench 200lbs is more equipped to build a bigger chest than someone who can bench 150lbs.
    I thought that was the point though (maybe I'm getting it wrong). You bulk up and you gain both muscle and fat at the same time (hence why some of the guys look like they fatten up). Then after a while you then cut. So when you finish your bulk and cut cycle you look much better than you did before you started the programme.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    As ill-informed as he seems to be - he's got a point about Starting Strength. If you follow the nutrition advice in the back of the book (GOMAD) then you will gain alot of fat. The gallon of milk on top of 2-3 other solid meals is overkill.
    I've never read the nutrition advice. I'm vegan so anything which says GOMAD makes me think I'm better off skipping it. So you may well be right about the nutrition advice. I'd imagine it is aimed for max strength gain which doesn't need to be concerned about controlling body fat. As a routine I completely recommend it but I would guess body building bulking advice (as in more concern for not letting body fat go up more than is inevitable for muscle gain) is much more relevant if you care about how you look
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    (Original post by Chrisateen)
    I thought that was the point though (maybe I'm getting it wrong). You bulk up and you gain both muscle and fat at the same time (hence why some of the guys look like they fatten up). Then after a while you then cut. So when you finish your bulk and cut cycle you look much better than you did before you started the programme.
    Yeah but if your diet is off, which mine was (thanks, GOMAD), then you will gain alot of extra fat to the point where more than half of your weekly gains are fat. i.e. if you're gaining 3-4 lbs like some weeks I do, then you can't really deny that most of that is fat.

    It means that after the bulking cycle is over you will have to cut for longer. And the longer you cut the more at risk you are of losing muscle and strength.

    But your right...I will look better than before when all is said and done, lol.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    He looks good. I wonder how much his lifts went down following a cut?
    Implying that you have to get fat to get strong? I guess it depends how fat.
    Mehdi says he never "bulked and cut" in the way that we think about it, and I have no reason not to believe him. I've followed his training log for a long time, lifts have only ever gone up. He can squat 400+.

    This guy however can squat 600, much more fat and has been fatter in the past. Right pic is current.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This guy got fat as jabba then cut it all away to reveal a beasts physique
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHsh2G-SPRU

    But no, you don't need to bulk and cut to get a body like the first picture.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Yeah but if your diet is off, which mine was (thanks, GOMAD), then you will gain alot of extra fat to the point where more than half of your weekly gains are fat. i.e. if you're gaining 3-4 lbs like some weeks I do, then you can't really deny that most of that is fat.

    It means that after the bulking cycle is over you will have to cut for longer. And the longer you cut the more at risk you are of losing muscle and strength.

    But your right...I will look better than before when all is said and done, lol.
    I was just posting as some of the guys were saying that SS makes people look terrible. Whereas the reality is that gaining weight too quickly along with a not so great diet is why people look 'fat' after the bulk cycle. However like you said once you cut (and yes you may lose some muscle) at least you will look a lot more ripped than before plus its a lesson to guys out their doing SS to watch their diet and make sure they don't gain weight too quickly. But still there is nothing wrong in gaining a bit of fat on a bulk.
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    (Original post by Hughsie)
    "Full body workout"

    Horrific...horrific advice.
    Oh really.
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    (Original post by MancBoy)
    ...
    Protein shakes should not replace meals. **** the snack, eat a meal instead. You have no lunch? If you cant have lunch, have 2 breakfasts and 2 dinners, drink milk after every meal. You should be eating to the point you cant eat any more. AND THEN drink the glass of milk/protein shake (i'm guessing you put milk in yours?) and have some more milk before sleep.

    I guarantee you will gain mass, and after a while it will be comfortable eating more. If you just gain fat from this diet and no muscle then your routine sucks, in which case i would suggest Starting Strength, unlike the troll said, you DO gain a lot of muscle and strength from it, you just need to "cut" after you finish SS and do a more BB routine
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    (Original post by Hughsie)
    "Full body workout"

    Horrific...horrific advice.
    Beginners can do that as they dont need to tax the system as much as much as advanced lifters to go results
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    (Original post by Chrisateen)
    I was just posting as some of the guys were saying that SS makes people look terrible. Whereas the reality is that gaining weight too quickly along with a not so great diet is why people look 'fat' after the bulk cycle. However like you said once you cut (and yes you may lose some muscle) at least you will look a lot more ripped than before plus its a lesson to guys out their doing SS to watch their diet and make sure they don't gain weight too quickly. But still there is nothing wrong in gaining a bit of fat on a bulk.
    Except OP is training for girls.

    Getting fatter is never a good thing, except maybe in OPs case as he probably too skinny. But, SS is a bad program as it turns you fat for little muscle gains that are only in your legs.

    So you get fat for bigger legs that make you look like a t-rex.

    Lets face it no girls would like the body that SS produces, which is why OP shouldn't do it.
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    (Original post by mikestraws)
    Dumbest post ever. You think SS or SL makes people fat? The way you eat makes you fat. Here's someone else who only does compound lifts.


    Funny how an entire argument changes when you select what pictures you use.

    It is widely known that a strength training routine foucsing on compound lifts is perfect for beginners. You will build the most strength, and if you need to, burn way more fat than you would doing a 3 day split with 10kg dumbells.
    Zach is SS key argument on why it works.

    Rippletoe said that Zach is what you should achieve on his program. Look at Zach? he got fatter and maybe his legs have gotten bigger.

    SS is a troll.

    SL is good through.
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    (Original post by Simplicity)
    Except OP is training for girls.

    Getting fatter is never a good thing, except maybe in OPs case as he probably too skinny. But, SS is a bad program as it turns you fat for little muscle gains that are only in your legs.

    So you get fat for bigger legs that make you look like a t-rex.

    Lets face it no girls would like the body that SS produces, which is why OP shouldn't do it.
    It's easy to neglect upper body lifts on SS but if you do it properly you won't. With the ABA BAB routine, on A, 2/3 lifts are upper body and on B 1/3 are. But the lower body lifts (squat and deadlift) are at least decent mass gainers for parts of the upper body.

    If you want to avoid fat then don't do GOMAD, but do half or make up all the calories from clean food. GOMAD is just an easy shortcut.
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    (Original post by mikestraws)
    Implying that you have to get fat to get strong? I guess it depends how fat.
    Mehdi says he never "bulked and cut" in the way that we think about it, and I have no reason not to believe him. I've followed his training log for a long time, lifts have only ever gone up. He can squat 400+.

    This guy however can squat 600, much more fat and has been fatter in the past. Right pic is current.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	stronglifts-results-jake.jpg 
Views:	196 
Size:	14.0 KB 
ID:	142228

    This guy got fat as jabba then cut it all away to reveal a beasts physique
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHsh2G-SPRU

    But no, you don't need to bulk and cut to get a body like the first picture.
    I can't back this with science or anything, but from personal experience...there's no way my lifts were going to increase 2.5kg EVERY workout if I was eating at maintenance/below maintenance.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    Oh really.
    ...yes. Otherwise I would have said "Good advice".
    Everyone knows, it it is a god given fact that full body workouts are ****. Compound movements are the best things for beginners because they build good mass in good time. No one should be in the gym longer than an hour unless your on the juice. Full body workouts therefore in an hour would do too little on each muscle group.
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    (Original post by desijut)
    Beginners can do that as they dont need to tax the system as much as much as advanced lifters to go results
    To see results from a full bodyworkout youd need to be doing it for years. Look at my post ^^^^^^^
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    (Original post by Hughsie)
    ...yes. Otherwise I would have said "Good advice".
    Everyone knows, it it is a god given fact that full body workouts are ****. Compound movements are the best things for beginners because they build good mass in good time. No one should be in the gym longer than an hour unless your on the juice. Full body workouts therefore in an hour would do too little on each muscle group.
    3 sets each of 3 compound movements with 3 mins rest between sets makes for 27mins of rest. If you say each set takes a minute then we're on 36mins. For setting up equipment, waiting for benches etc, we'll call it 50mins. I don't know what you think full body means but I don't mean a million isolation exercises.

    (Original post by Hughsie)
    To see results from a full bodyworkout youd need to be doing it for years. Look at my post ^^^^^^^
    That makes no sense since full body workouts are harder than splits. Unless you're thinking of full body isolation or something.
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    Sidestepping the debate on routine for a moment (because, while it's my opinion that a split routine like that is pretty terrible for a beginner, I think that if you're working hard at the lifts you do you should still make gains) I think that the diet is pretty awful. There just isn't much in it. Protein shakes are handy, but as a way to get some extra protein - not as a replacement for meals. You can ingest all the protein you like but if you're not actually taking in enough calories, you're not going to get any bigger.
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    (Original post by Chrisateen)
    I was just posting as some of the guys were saying that SS makes people look terrible. Whereas the reality is that gaining weight too quickly along with a not so great diet is why people look 'fat' after the bulk cycle. However like you said once you cut (and yes you may lose some muscle) at least you will look a lot more ripped than before plus its a lesson to guys out their doing SS to watch their diet and make sure they don't gain weight too quickly. But still there is nothing wrong in gaining a bit of fat on a bulk.
    Well that guy is a troll, lol, and I hope the OP doesn't dismiss Starting Strength based on that. When your bulking you're going to lose abs and definition and it doesn't really matter what programme you're on because it's the calorific excess is what does it.

    I'm gonna lower my own kcal to stop myself becoming more and more blobbish.

    And well done on losing all that weight.
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    (Original post by Hughsie)
    To see results from a full bodyworkout youd need to be doing it for years. Look at my post ^^^^^^^
    OOOOOoooohhh, right. By "full body" i meant compound, i was about go on about my SS progress in 4 months calling bull****

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