Bristol or Nottingham? (For an international student)
Scroll to see replies
Original post by roh
Don't worry, we read stuff and realise we haven't got a word of what it says either! With the reading thing, I've just done a year abroad doing law in a foreign language (French) and after a couple of months you do find yourself getting much quicker at reading legal texts in the foreign language.
Most people in Birtain got spoon fed at school too, some who go to Sixth Form colleges maybe less so, but these are a minority and most people come straight from an 11-18 school and get a bit of a culture shock too when they arrive at uni in terms of learning style. Everyone adapts and I'm sure you will too!
Most people in Birtain got spoon fed at school too, some who go to Sixth Form colleges maybe less so, but these are a minority and most people come straight from an 11-18 school and get a bit of a culture shock too when they arrive at uni in terms of learning style. Everyone adapts and I'm sure you will too!
Thank you so much! I really feel more confident!
Thanks!!Original post by Kenocide
I don't know how Bristol conduct their assessments but possibly one reason why Nottingham award slightly fewer good grades is because all of your marks come from end of year exams; for example, I have 3 exams this month, each of which is 3 hours and each of which represents 100% of that module.
This method of examination is really tough because you don't get the chance to build up a collection of marks throughout the year, through coursework or group presentations etc, as a comfort cushion in case you do badly in exams. It means that when the exam season comes around, ie now, you have to revise your ass off and ensure you know in detail almost everything you've covered all year, which means serious work. I'm sure this is a level of work which some students just can't live with, therefore they don't do it and don't get a 1st or 2:1.
It's also worth pointing out that one of the reasons why Nottingham's law school is well regarded by employers is because it doesn't mark first years generously. First years are not given a concession because they are first years, they are marked the same as second and third years.
This method of examination is really tough because you don't get the chance to build up a collection of marks throughout the year, through coursework or group presentations etc, as a comfort cushion in case you do badly in exams. It means that when the exam season comes around, ie now, you have to revise your ass off and ensure you know in detail almost everything you've covered all year, which means serious work. I'm sure this is a level of work which some students just can't live with, therefore they don't do it and don't get a 1st or 2:1.
It's also worth pointing out that one of the reasons why Nottingham's law school is well regarded by employers is because it doesn't mark first years generously. First years are not given a concession because they are first years, they are marked the same as second and third years.
Oh, I see. Thank you! This is very informative!
Original post by Ryan64
Op just to let you know 6% is on average the highest amount of 1st's given in law at any university. If i was you I'd defiantly pick Nottingham! Amazing reputation and Chinese society the is huge!
Hi, thanks for your input! But if I'm not wrong, some universities do award a rather high percentage of 1st class honours. (10+ %) I got my data from here: http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/
That's why I'm actually quite concerned witht the low percentage of 1st at Nottingham.
Original post by tyt93
Oh, I see. Thank you! This is very informative!
No problem.
Also, as others have said, the international community at Nottingham is HUGE. Honestly there are almost as many Asian students as there are home students because we have campuses in China and Malaysia so we get a lot of exchange students from there. Because of this, and the fact that presumably most of those exchange students have a good time here, Nottingham has built a reputation as a very international university I feel.
Original post by Ryan64
Op just to let you know 6% is on average the highest amount of 1st's given in law at any university. If i was you I'd defiantly pick Nottingham! Amazing reputation and Chinese society the is huge!
In defiance of Bristol's manifest superiority?
Original post by tyt93
Hi, thank you so much for the informative reply! Yes, I'm from Singapore. The main reason why I'm hesitated in doing law is my poor linguistic abilities. Recently, I've been reading some law books and I found myself re-reading as I could not process what was written! I am easily distracted as there are so many clauses in a single sentence! Do you think this is a serious problem? Or will it be a matter of time in which I will get used to such readings?
You won't need to worry about this, your linguistic standard will improve as you progress on with your studies. In time you would master the art of understanding legal text very quickly. What you are experiencing now isn't unusual even with British or American students.
Original post by tyt93
I am rather concerned about self study in UK. I want to be more independent, yet having been spoon-fed in school for so many years, I am afraid that I cannot cope with such a drastic change of pedagogy. At Nottingham, will I be even given notes, books, etc? (I am not sure whether I can cope with self study. :/ I used to take H3 Economics but eventually dropped it as my tutor only talked but did not provide any notes, slides, books, etc.)
I am rather concerned about self study in UK. I want to be more independent, yet having been spoon-fed in school for so many years, I am afraid that I cannot cope with such a drastic change of pedagogy. At Nottingham, will I be even given notes, books, etc? (I am not sure whether I can cope with self study. :/ I used to take H3 Economics but eventually dropped it as my tutor only talked but did not provide any notes, slides, books, etc.)
It depends on the module, usually as a bare minimum the instructor will provide you with a hardcopy of slides or it would be available on WebCT where all your class material will be stored at. Some of the slides will have just the barest of skeleton of what he/she covers in class while others might have a bit of meat to it that would cover his main points. As a whole if you just study those slides and regurgitate that in an exam you're bound to fail or get a 40% at best.
Notes? No British university will provide you with notes, you are supposed to make your own notes from the extensive readings you would be doing throughout your course.
Books, you aren't given any textbooks, you buy or borrow them from the library
But your instructor will usually have a reading list for you and will tell you what you should read BEFORE attending a certain lecture. There will also be journals and white papers you would need to read and it is also a good idea to read up on similar issues in other Common Law jurisdictions as well as on reforms or potential reforms. Original post by tyt93
Since you are from Nottingham, can I ask if the low percentage of 2:1s and above is a result of harsh grading system at Nottingham? I am very concerned with this as even though I credit myself as a hardworking individual, I am unsure whether willingness to work hard is sufficient a criteria to achieve a good honours in law.
Sorry for asking so much because I really don't know anyone who can help me on this!!
Since you are from Nottingham, can I ask if the low percentage of 2:1s and above is a result of harsh grading system at Nottingham? I am very concerned with this as even though I credit myself as a hardworking individual, I am unsure whether willingness to work hard is sufficient a criteria to achieve a good honours in law.
Sorry for asking so much because I really don't know anyone who can help me on this!!
No problem, I'll help as much as I could, I am no longer at Nottingham though, graduated in 2009.
I started out my LL.B at a University of London campus, the grading was a lot harsher than it was at Nottingham, in fact I failed 2 modules there but got a 2:1 in it at Nottingham.
The main reason so few get 2:1s has nothing to do with harsh grading, the main reason to it is many just don't put in the hardwork or just slack off due to their other interest. Many slack in their 2nd year because they think they had good 1st year grades hence they start doing part time jobs and party as much as they did in their 1st year only to realize they didn't put in enough effort. Many also lose interest and passion in the subject come the 3rd year so they no longer do as well, there are also those that do quite badly because there are options you need to select, instead of doing something they have interest in they select those that are "fitting to their schedule" only to realize it isn't something for them.
If you put in the effort and work, plus do more than just the required readings you will get a 2:1, in the year I graduated the people who had 1st were those who were very well versed with what reforms were going on, they were also rather smart in picking up what exactly the instructor wanted to see on an exam script, plus they did plenty of past year questions, 1 guy I knew from Malaysia did on average 3 per evening using less than 40 mins per question and then he would ask, he would then email it to his tutor and father (who is a lawyer) and ask if that was the correct approach and where and what he could improve upon.
I'd say the worries you are having now is normal and usual but if you are a hardworking person and can be consistent in your work I don't see why you can't get a 2:1 at Nottingham or Bristol.
Original post by tyt93
Hi, thanks for your input! But if I'm not wrong, some universities do award a rather high percentage of 1st class honours. (10+ %) I got my data from here: http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/
That's why I'm actually quite concerned witht the low percentage of 1st at Nottingham.
That's why I'm actually quite concerned witht the low percentage of 1st at Nottingham.
Indeed, some universities do award a lot of 1st class honours but this isn't a good thing! For example Sheffield Hallam is currently being investigated for awarding 20% 1st class honours in law. I read somewhere that it was 6%...either way if you think about it, law is a fairly challenging degree and if a university is awarding a lot of firsts surely that questions the validity of that degree classification at that university?
Original post by Ryan64
Indeed, some universities do award a lot of 1st class honours but this isn't a good thing! For example Sheffield Hallam is currently being investigated for awarding 20% 1st class honours in law. I read somewhere that it was 6%...either way if you think about it, law is a fairly challenging degree and if a university is awarding a lot of firsts surely that questions the validity of that degree classification at that university?
True, but not a concrete rule.
Oxford and Cambridge give out the fairly high percentages of 17% and 14% respectively and their validity is not up for question! Ultimately I'd be more worried if a uni swung wildly in the percentages of certain classes it gives out (eg. 3% Firsts one year then 20 the next) otherwise there's an argument that that's just how their marking system works, it's consistent, the stats are there for employers to see how you performed relative to your cohort and why should Hallam be investigated for 20 when Oxford's left alone with 17?
Original post by tyt93
From what is stated above, Bristol seems like the better choice, but I am currently more inclined towards Nottingham because of the lower costs of living there and a better social life.
In addition, from certain threads, I understand that Bristol's Law is on the decline. (Needs clarification)
Should I be overly concerned over the statistics of degree classification? Is the low percentage of 2.1 and above at Nottingham a result of harsh and strict assessments by the law faculty? Or is it mainly due to external assessments?
Pls help Any opinions are greatly appreciated!
In addition, from certain threads, I understand that Bristol's Law is on the decline. (Needs clarification)
Should I be overly concerned over the statistics of degree classification? Is the low percentage of 2.1 and above at Nottingham a result of harsh and strict assessments by the law faculty? Or is it mainly due to external assessments?
Pls help
Any opinions are greatly appreciated!Choose bristol!
Biased opinion here though. I'm headed there this October and chose it over nottingham and warwick!
Original post by volante
Choose bristol!
Biased opinion here though. I'm headed there this October and chose it over nottingham and warwick!
Biased opinion here though. I'm headed there this October and chose it over nottingham and warwick!
Yes, it's biased with no evidence to back it up.
Original post by roh
True, but not a concrete rule.
Oxford and Cambridge give out the fairly high percentages of 17% and 14% respectively and their validity is not up for question! Ultimately I'd be more worried if a uni swung wildly in the percentages of certain classes it gives out (eg. 3% Firsts one year then 20 the next) otherwise there's an argument that that's just how their marking system works, it's consistent, the stats are there for employers to see how you performed relative to your cohort and why should Hallam be investigated for 20 when Oxford's left alone with 17?
Oxford and Cambridge give out the fairly high percentages of 17% and 14% respectively and their validity is not up for question! Ultimately I'd be more worried if a uni swung wildly in the percentages of certain classes it gives out (eg. 3% Firsts one year then 20 the next) otherwise there's an argument that that's just how their marking system works, it's consistent, the stats are there for employers to see how you performed relative to your cohort and why should Hallam be investigated for 20 when Oxford's left alone with 17?
I was not aware of how many firsts Oxbridge gave although the comparison between them and Hallam is not a good one. Oxbridge has some of the brightest people in the UK, receiving some of the best teaching in the world whilst Hallam is a fairly average University with fairly average teaching. So, I'd expect Oxbridge to have more firsts on average but at the same time considering how good Oxbridge candidates are proves how hard it is to get a first. I think the reason there being investigated is because Hallam puts a lot of emphasis on making it's students as employable as possible (not saying other universities don't) therefore if employers see 20% of there students are getting a 1st, it questions how hard it was to get that first potentially making them less likely to pick grads from there.
Original post by Ryan64
I was not aware of how many firsts Oxbridge gave although the comparison between them and Hallam is not a good one. Oxbridge has some of the brightest people in the UK, receiving some of the best teaching in the world whilst Hallam is a fairly average University with fairly average teaching. So, I'd expect Oxbridge to have more firsts on average but at the same time considering how good Oxbridge candidates are proves how hard it is to get a first. I think the reason there being investigated is because Hallam puts a lot of emphasis on making it's students as employable as possible (not saying other universities don't) therefore if employers see 20% of there students are getting a 1st, it questions how hard it was to get that first potentially making them less likely to pick grads from there.
But if Unis set their own requirements for each grade (which they do and they alter them from time to time) and given there are differences between unis you can't really compare them like for like. The fact that there are differing standards from uni to uni is exemplified by two as similar as Oxford and Cambridge having a 3% difference in the number of Firsts awarded. If standards were equal you'd imagine they'd have virtually identical numbers.
If unis are to have discretion to award the degree they see fit to each candidate, and with data available for anyone to see how they perform against their cohort as it is, why should Hallam not be allowed to say 'we're giving 20% of our students a First' but Oxford can say '17% of ours deserve a First' when both are significantly above the average of around 7 or 8%?
If you're going to make all Firsts equivalent to each other with a central exam system, as exists for public exams up until 18, then fair enough but if it is going to be left at the unis' discretion you have to accept they will use that discretion.
Yes, employers might place less worth on a Hallam First because of that, but the data's out there for students to see who gives out what grades and if they think they're grade will be devalued by going to a certain uni, due to a high number of top grades being awarded there, they are free to go elsewhere.
Original post by tyt93
From the league tables, Bristol has a higher ranking. Is it advisable to choose Bristol over Nottingham because a degree from a more reputable foreign uni would be more highly regarded in my home country?
If you're talking about UK league table rankings for law then not quite.
In 2013 Complete University Guide League Tables for Law:
Nottingham ranks 6th, Bristol ranks 12th
In 2013 Guardian University Guide League Table for Law:
Nottingham ranks 13th, Bristol ranks 21th
In 2012 Times Good University Guide League Table for Law:
Nottingham ranks 5th, Bristol ranks 17th
If you look at Singapore's big four law firms Rajah and Tann, Drew and Napier, Wong Partnership and Allen and Gledhil's websites, you will find more of their partners come from Nottingham than Bristol (although not a significant difference).
Nottingham has always been held in high regard within Singapore's law fraternity. Bristol too, perhaps in part due to Justice LP Thean. That said, being older, perhaps a little more 'elitist' than Nottingham, in their way of keeping their enrolment small (on the contrary, Notts is quite interested in expansion), Bristol University as a whole has a little more prestige attached to it than Nottingham. Then again, these things could well change in the next couple of years.
Nottingham has always been held in high regard within Singapore's law fraternity. Bristol too, perhaps in part due to Justice LP Thean. That said, being older, perhaps a little more 'elitist' than Nottingham, in their way of keeping their enrolment small (on the contrary, Notts is quite interested in expansion), Bristol University as a whole has a little more prestige attached to it than Nottingham. Then again, these things could well change in the next couple of years.
Original post by tyt93
From the league tables, Bristol has a higher ranking. Is it advisable to choose Bristol over Nottingham because a degree from a more reputable foreign uni would be more highly regarded in my home country?
Wouldn't pay too much attention to rankings. More to life than rankings and often they are based on the research quality of those you won't have all that much contact with.
Original post by Spectre1039
Wouldn't pay too much attention to rankings. More to life than rankings and often they are based on the research quality of those you won't have all that much contact with.
I agree with this. Both schools are held in very similar regard, maybe Nottingham slightly better, but it wouldn't hurt employment prospects going to one or the other. I do have to say my friends think Bristol is a nicer, more vibrant city than Nottingham though, and that might just be the deal breaker for you.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- what uni should i firm for law
- Any singaporeans studying in leeds?
- Choosing university for Economics
- bristol law alternative offer
- Bristol law or Nottingham law
- international relations/politics students 2024
- Durham vs Nottingham vs Warwick vs Bristol for LLB
- Nottingham law prestige?
- Question for Medicine September 2024 intake
- Can you help me choose my postgrad offer as an international student ?
- Taking my horse to university
- Politics and international relations undergraduate 2022
- Would you rather attend...?
- Official Economics Applicants Thread for 2024 Entry
- Can you help me choose my postgrad Uni as an international student?
- Psychology Conversion Courses - where is the most reputable?
- Kings college or Bristol
- Biomedical science
- Law offers - 2024 entry
- Law Applicants 2023 Thread
