Question about Big Four audit work life balance
I’m starting my job this fall in London in the audit department of a Big Four and I would like to hear about what exactly the work-life balance is like. The corporate websites always talk about how its great with perhaps some periods of more intense work but I’m having trouble believing that considering some of the stuff I’ve read online (such as PWC’s nickname being People Working Constantly).
I’ll be doing the ACA so I know I’ll have to put in a lot of time studying for that but aside from work and that, how much time do you really have left over? I’m not much of a social person but the one thing that I am really passionate about is sports and aside from the weekends (during which I assume finding time will be less of an issue), I’d like to at least have 2-3 weekday evenings where I can have about 2-3 hours to get my workouts done. Is this even remotely possible while working in Big Four audit during the early years or not?
I’ll be doing the ACA so I know I’ll have to put in a lot of time studying for that but aside from work and that, how much time do you really have left over? I’m not much of a social person but the one thing that I am really passionate about is sports and aside from the weekends (during which I assume finding time will be less of an issue), I’d like to at least have 2-3 weekday evenings where I can have about 2-3 hours to get my workouts done. Is this even remotely possible while working in Big Four audit during the early years or not?
Original post by M1011
I'm led to believe it's a pretty intense workload, but not stupidly long hours. I doubt you'll have trouble getting some sports time, in fact they seem to push that, lots of teams to join etcetera. Oh and you'll most likely have a gym at work as well which helps.
As I'll be at client offices most of the time, a work gym doesn't really help. Plus, corporate gyms/fitness centers are exactly the kind of places I don't want to train in. I'm looking for real athletic strength and conditioning/weightlifting gyms, not ones with treadmills and pink dumbbells.
However its nice to hear that they encourage sports.
The honest answer in my experience is that it varies. Departments have busy seasons, in mine it's the kind of April to July period, where hours can be tough. There are other times where it can be fairly solidly 0930 to 1730.
As a first year I didn't often work much beyond 1900. Now that I'm in-charging there are regular late nights and this year I've worked beyond midnight a fair few times as well as putting quite a bit of weekend work in. I guess the other big thing is that it's your choice. Nobody can force you to work beyond your contracted hours and there are some people that don't. Those that do are the ones chasing promotions etc.
I take running pretty seriously and I make sure that I make time to go for 4 runs a week, so that can definitely be done.
I think the trade off is pretty much this - you can be a manager at a big 4 firm pretty quickly, there's a very defined career path. If you're willing to really put the effort in then you will be able to follow that career path and you can get a pretty rapid promotion. But that does require putting in a lot of hours and showing you're dedicated in return.
As a first year I didn't often work much beyond 1900. Now that I'm in-charging there are regular late nights and this year I've worked beyond midnight a fair few times as well as putting quite a bit of weekend work in. I guess the other big thing is that it's your choice. Nobody can force you to work beyond your contracted hours and there are some people that don't. Those that do are the ones chasing promotions etc.
I take running pretty seriously and I make sure that I make time to go for 4 runs a week, so that can definitely be done.
I think the trade off is pretty much this - you can be a manager at a big 4 firm pretty quickly, there's a very defined career path. If you're willing to really put the effort in then you will be able to follow that career path and you can get a pretty rapid promotion. But that does require putting in a lot of hours and showing you're dedicated in return.
Original post by 86501
The honest answer in my experience is that it varies. Departments have busy seasons, in mine it's the kind of April to July period, where hours can be tough. There are other times where it can be fairly solidly 0930 to 1730.
As a first year I didn't often work much beyond 1900. Now that I'm in-charging there are regular late nights and this year I've worked beyond midnight a fair few times as well as putting quite a bit of weekend work in. I guess the other big thing is that it's your choice. Nobody can force you to work beyond your contracted hours and there are some people that don't. Those that do are the ones chasing promotions etc.
I take running pretty seriously and I make sure that I make time to go for 4 runs a week, so that can definitely be done.
I think the trade off is pretty much this - you can be a manager at a big 4 firm pretty quickly, there's a very defined career path. If you're willing to really put the effort in then you will be able to follow that career path and you can get a pretty rapid promotion. But that does require putting in a lot of hours and showing you're dedicated in return.
As a first year I didn't often work much beyond 1900. Now that I'm in-charging there are regular late nights and this year I've worked beyond midnight a fair few times as well as putting quite a bit of weekend work in. I guess the other big thing is that it's your choice. Nobody can force you to work beyond your contracted hours and there are some people that don't. Those that do are the ones chasing promotions etc.
I take running pretty seriously and I make sure that I make time to go for 4 runs a week, so that can definitely be done.
I think the trade off is pretty much this - you can be a manager at a big 4 firm pretty quickly, there's a very defined career path. If you're willing to really put the effort in then you will be able to follow that career path and you can get a pretty rapid promotion. But that does require putting in a lot of hours and showing you're dedicated in return.
Does work really start at 9.30? That seems quite late to me, I'd rather get to the office at around 8-8.30 and then leave a bit earlier. I might start to consider early morning workouts if things really start that late.
Original post by snakesnake
Does work really start at 9.30? That seems quite late to me, I'd rather get to the office at around 8-8.30 and then leave a bit earlier. I might start to consider early morning workouts if things really start that late.
Yeah when I interned most people came in at half 8/9 and finished at 6. At my office, 6pm was considered a late night, but tbh it wasn't really busy season so it was fine. Although my personal 'buddy' always rolled in at like half 9 and stayed till about 7. Most people will generally tend to leave about 6/7 latest, I remember my buddy getting some sort of commendation for staying till 9pm, something I thought was odd at the time
.Original post by snakesnake
As I'll be at client offices most of the time, a work gym doesn't really help. Plus, corporate gyms/fitness centers are exactly the kind of places I don't want to train in. I'm looking for real athletic strength and conditioning/weightlifting gyms, not ones with treadmills and pink dumbbells.
However its nice to hear that they encourage sports.
However its nice to hear that they encourage sports.
Apologies for not knowing about your aversion to pink dumbbells
Original post by snakesnake
Does work really start at 9.30? That seems quite late to me, I'd rather get to the office at around 8-8.30 and then leave a bit earlier. I might start to consider early morning workouts if things really start that late.
They are KPMG's London contract hours, I believe the other offices are 9 to 5. To be honest when work is a bit quieter it's much nicer getting in at 0930, the trains aren't crowded and I even get a seat on the DLR heading over to Canary Wharf. It's also beneficial if it's a long commute to a client.
That doesn't mean we actually all arrive at 0930 every day, I got to my client at 0830 this morning and when I've got NHS jobs a lot of their staff work 8 to 4 so I will tend to start the day at 8 to match them. It's not like working in a shop that has fixed opening hours, you can be fairly flexible around your hours if you so desire.
Original post by 86501
They are KPMG's London contract hours, I believe the other offices are 9 to 5. To be honest when work is a bit quieter it's much nicer getting in at 0930, the trains aren't crowded and I even get a seat on the DLR heading over to Canary Wharf. It's also beneficial if it's a long commute to a client.
That doesn't mean we actually all arrive at 0930 every day, I got to my client at 0830 this morning and when I've got NHS jobs a lot of their staff work 8 to 4 so I will tend to start the day at 8 to match them. It's not like working in a shop that has fixed opening hours, you can be fairly flexible around your hours if you so desire.
That doesn't mean we actually all arrive at 0930 every day, I got to my client at 0830 this morning and when I've got NHS jobs a lot of their staff work 8 to 4 so I will tend to start the day at 8 to match them. It's not like working in a shop that has fixed opening hours, you can be fairly flexible around your hours if you so desire.
Would you say its theoretically possible to start a workday earlier in order to be able to go home a bit earlier as well? Does such an opportunity exist?
Original post by snakesnake
I’m starting my job this fall in London in the audit department of a Big Four and I would like to hear about what exactly the work-life balance is like. The corporate websites always talk about how its great with perhaps some periods of more intense work but I’m having trouble believing that considering some of the stuff I’ve read online (such as PWC’s nickname being People Working Constantly).
I’ll be doing the ACA so I know I’ll have to put in a lot of time studying for that but aside from work and that, how much time do you really have left over? I’m not much of a social person but the one thing that I am really passionate about is sports and aside from the weekends (during which I assume finding time will be less of an issue), I’d like to at least have 2-3 weekday evenings where I can have about 2-3 hours to get my workouts done. Is this even remotely possible while working in Big Four audit during the early years or not?
I’ll be doing the ACA so I know I’ll have to put in a lot of time studying for that but aside from work and that, how much time do you really have left over? I’m not much of a social person but the one thing that I am really passionate about is sports and aside from the weekends (during which I assume finding time will be less of an issue), I’d like to at least have 2-3 weekday evenings where I can have about 2-3 hours to get my workouts done. Is this even remotely possible while working in Big Four audit during the early years or not?
Liiiiife? Ah, yes, life. I remember having one of those.
Original post by snakesnake
Would you say its theoretically possible to start a workday earlier in order to be able to go home a bit earlier as well? Does such an opportunity exist?
Yes, absolutely, very few in-charges/managers would have an issue with you doing that. In my experience if you're getting the work done most people don't mind what time you start and finish.
Original post by 86501
Yes, absolutely, very few in-charges/managers would have an issue with you doing that. In my experience if you're getting the work done most people don't mind what time you start and finish.
Thats great to hear, thank you.
Original post by snakesnake
Would you say its theoretically possible to start a workday earlier in order to be able to go home a bit earlier as well? Does such an opportunity exist?
Largely depends on the client hours, complexity of the job and what your manager's like. i.e. I'm leaving at 12pm today to get back up to Manchester because I have all the client info I need and anything else doesn't require me being here so I can write my work up on the train. You'll have much more sway when you're field managing and can dictate your own hours. I field managed myself on a pensions audit two weeks back (as a first year, which is pretty cool), and went in at 10am, left at 4pm as work was going well and then had 7.30am-12pm on my last day so i could get an early finish.
In audit the main factor is the client as they provide the information. In theory you can work from home if you have what you need. It's just better for teams to be together on more complex jobs so that you can easily discuss your work with each other/get advice or help from the seniors. Some managers put serious hours in and won't tell you to leave but if you ask/can justify doing things your way then it will be okay. Be warned though some may not appreciate it, especially as a first year.
Also 9.30am is unrealistic. I've only ever got to a client on a normal job that late when I've actually been late. 9am is standard if it's a nice job but 8.30am is when most of your team will be at a client as as seniors they will have more work, 8am is when most managers will start work on their bigger jobs and I've had jobs where 7.30am has been the norm. On my main client this year I was starting work at 7am on the train.
As long as your work gets done it's fine. But you should really be asking for extra work in that case.
In my opinion, its all about the urgency of work and deadlines to be met. Any company, big or small will always have its 'good and bad' working times. Many a times employees might need to work long hours to complete a project or to meet a deadline. Similarly, there will also be times when you might not have enough work at hand! Of course, if you are a person who is a great multi-tasker and understands tasks quickly then you might be able to save those precious minutes and leave on time most of the times. For the not so fortunate ones, working long hours is somewhat a daily routine 
Going to bump this thread back up again:
I've been doing some reading about the busy season in audit and I keep reading horror stories of working weekends, getting home so late that all you have time left over for is to get some less-than-healthy number of hours of sleep and go back to work again and a ban on vacation during this time (this last one I can understand and live with).
How much of what I have described would you guys say is true? Can I get at least a few days during the week in the busy season when I can have a few hours in the evening to myself?
I ask all this also because there is a big sports competition in March that I want to take part and it seems that not only is it during a time when busy season is still on (might they allow me to skip a weekend at work to take part?) but it seems that the most crucial months of training fall into a period when I will have the absolute least amount of time to do so.
Should I just give up all my athletic (as well as most other non-work related) dreams due to the career that I've (for the next 3 years at least) chosen?
Secondly: I read that you can purchase up to 2 weeks of additional vacation per year, bringing the total up to 35 days which is pretty awesome. However what kind of restrictions (perhaps not always formal) are there to taking this? Could it be the case that I won't find time away from client commitments to even take the 25 days promised in my contract?
Also a third question came up: would it be wise to invest in a smart phone that enables me to read/write emails? I'm probably one of the last people in the Western world with a phone that doesn't do anything aside from call and send text messages but I'm thinking that a smart phone might make my job easier.
I've been doing some reading about the busy season in audit and I keep reading horror stories of working weekends, getting home so late that all you have time left over for is to get some less-than-healthy number of hours of sleep and go back to work again and a ban on vacation during this time (this last one I can understand and live with).
How much of what I have described would you guys say is true? Can I get at least a few days during the week in the busy season when I can have a few hours in the evening to myself?
I ask all this also because there is a big sports competition in March that I want to take part and it seems that not only is it during a time when busy season is still on (might they allow me to skip a weekend at work to take part?) but it seems that the most crucial months of training fall into a period when I will have the absolute least amount of time to do so.
Should I just give up all my athletic (as well as most other non-work related) dreams due to the career that I've (for the next 3 years at least) chosen?
Secondly: I read that you can purchase up to 2 weeks of additional vacation per year, bringing the total up to 35 days which is pretty awesome. However what kind of restrictions (perhaps not always formal) are there to taking this? Could it be the case that I won't find time away from client commitments to even take the 25 days promised in my contract?
Also a third question came up: would it be wise to invest in a smart phone that enables me to read/write emails? I'm probably one of the last people in the Western world with a phone that doesn't do anything aside from call and send text messages but I'm thinking that a smart phone might make my job easier.
1) Which department are you looking at going into? Different departments have different busy seasons and work different hours, it's not as simple as that. And nobody forces you to work beyond your contracted hours. It's really your call. During my busy times I tend to do 3 later nights a week and take 2 nights a week finishing by 1830 so I've got time to train in the evening. So other than cutting from 4 to 3 training sessions a week I don't feel a huge impact.
I do work weekends at times.
My department has never officially banned leave. It's more that you can't get it at short notice. But I book 3 weeks spread through the year way in advance (already booked mine for next year) and then it's easier to move them around than try to create holiday at short notice.
Vacation - I don't know if all firms offer this, mine does. Again book it in advance and keep in mind that you have to pay for it so it's less salary, depending on if that's an issue for you.
Smartphones - I've chosen not to download the app we use for picking up work emails, I want to be able to get away from emails when I'm not at work, it's not done me any harm, if somebody needed me really urgently they'd call me.
I do work weekends at times.
My department has never officially banned leave. It's more that you can't get it at short notice. But I book 3 weeks spread through the year way in advance (already booked mine for next year) and then it's easier to move them around than try to create holiday at short notice.
Vacation - I don't know if all firms offer this, mine does. Again book it in advance and keep in mind that you have to pay for it so it's less salary, depending on if that's an issue for you.
Smartphones - I've chosen not to download the app we use for picking up work emails, I want to be able to get away from emails when I'm not at work, it's not done me any harm, if somebody needed me really urgently they'd call me.
Original post by 86501
1) Which department are you looking at going into? Different departments have different busy seasons and work different hours, it's not as simple as that. And nobody forces you to work beyond your contracted hours. It's really your call. During my busy times I tend to do 3 later nights a week and take 2 nights a week finishing by 1830 so I've got time to train in the evening. So other than cutting from 4 to 3 training sessions a week I don't feel a huge impact.
I do work weekends at times.
My department has never officially banned leave. It's more that you can't get it at short notice. But I book 3 weeks spread through the year way in advance (already booked mine for next year) and then it's easier to move them around than try to create holiday at short notice.
Vacation - I don't know if all firms offer this, mine does. Again book it in advance and keep in mind that you have to pay for it so it's less salary, depending on if that's an issue for you.
Smartphones - I've chosen not to download the app we use for picking up work emails, I want to be able to get away from emails when I'm not at work, it's not done me any harm, if somebody needed me really urgently they'd call me.
I do work weekends at times.
My department has never officially banned leave. It's more that you can't get it at short notice. But I book 3 weeks spread through the year way in advance (already booked mine for next year) and then it's easier to move them around than try to create holiday at short notice.
Vacation - I don't know if all firms offer this, mine does. Again book it in advance and keep in mind that you have to pay for it so it's less salary, depending on if that's an issue for you.
Smartphones - I've chosen not to download the app we use for picking up work emails, I want to be able to get away from emails when I'm not at work, it's not done me any harm, if somebody needed me really urgently they'd call me.
1. Do you mean what sector I want to audit? Well I put down energy/natural resources as my first choice and manufacturing as second but I don't know if I'll get it. I heard banking is supposed to have the worst working hours.
2. As for my vacation, I'd rather not take it out in too many separate blocks but perhaps do 2 weeks or so at a time (3 weeks would be better, more than that I'd rather not) since I'm not from the UK and would like to travel home for holiday (and I'm not earning enough at the beginning to justify buying lots of tickets).
Regarding how many working hours I put in, I read this in another forum: if I want to stay with the firm after getting my qualification and perhaps hope to make it to partner, then its wise to put it as much time as possible. If however I don't care about that and perhaps am considering leaving after I do my 3 years, then I can be more relaxed about how many hours I put in.
How would you comment on that statement?
Original post by snakesnake
I’m starting my job this fall in London in the audit department of a Big Four and I would like to hear about what exactly the work-life balance is like. The corporate websites always talk about how its great with perhaps some periods of more intense work but I’m having trouble believing that considering some of the stuff I’ve read online (such as PWC’s nickname being People Working Constantly).
I’ll be doing the ACA so I know I’ll have to put in a lot of time studying for that but aside from work and that, how much time do you really have left over? I’m not much of a social person but the one thing that I am really passionate about is sports and aside from the weekends (during which I assume finding time will be less of an issue), I’d like to at least have 2-3 weekday evenings where I can have about 2-3 hours to get my workouts done. Is this even remotely possible while working in Big Four audit during the early years or not?
I’ll be doing the ACA so I know I’ll have to put in a lot of time studying for that but aside from work and that, how much time do you really have left over? I’m not much of a social person but the one thing that I am really passionate about is sports and aside from the weekends (during which I assume finding time will be less of an issue), I’d like to at least have 2-3 weekday evenings where I can have about 2-3 hours to get my workouts done. Is this even remotely possible while working in Big Four audit during the early years or not?
Well, I know a friend who works at kpmg in reading and he usually gets back at 8-9 at night and works very long hours, thats when you're at audit then exams revision etc.
Original post by snakesnake
1. Do you mean what sector I want to audit? Well I put down energy/natural resources as my first choice and manufacturing as second but I don't know if I'll get it. I heard banking is supposed to have the worst working hours.
2. As for my vacation, I'd rather not take it out in too many separate blocks but perhaps do 2 weeks or so at a time (3 weeks would be better, more than that I'd rather not) since I'm not from the UK and would like to travel home for holiday (and I'm not earning enough at the beginning to justify buying lots of tickets).
Regarding how many working hours I put in, I read this in another forum: if I want to stay with the firm after getting my qualification and perhaps hope to make it to partner, then its wise to put it as much time as possible. If however I don't care about that and perhaps am considering leaving after I do my 3 years, then I can be more relaxed about how many hours I put in.
How would you comment on that statement?
2. As for my vacation, I'd rather not take it out in too many separate blocks but perhaps do 2 weeks or so at a time (3 weeks would be better, more than that I'd rather not) since I'm not from the UK and would like to travel home for holiday (and I'm not earning enough at the beginning to justify buying lots of tickets).
Regarding how many working hours I put in, I read this in another forum: if I want to stay with the firm after getting my qualification and perhaps hope to make it to partner, then its wise to put it as much time as possible. If however I don't care about that and perhaps am considering leaving after I do my 3 years, then I can be more relaxed about how many hours I put in.
How would you comment on that statement?
I know a few people who have done oil audits from the Aberdeen office and the hours on that didn't seem to be too bad. Banking does have a bad reputation for hours, but there are FS (financial services) jobs where I've heard people saying they were doing 9-5 the whole time and it was chilled, so there's a bit of luck involved no matter where you are.
People take 2 weeks at a time, the point is really just if you're booking it early it can usually be accommodated. It's when people want it at a month's notice and expect countless bookings moved around to achieve it that they end up getting turned down.
I think it's common sense that the more effort you're putting in the better you're likely to be viewed, it is not the case that those working the longest hours get promoted the quickest though. Efficiency is very greatly valued. Quality is also key. But if you're willing to chip in and help with extra things, like the non-chargeable work that adds value or helps the department then you will get a lot of credit.
If you want to just work 0930-1730 then nobody can stop you but it is accepted extra hours are necessary at times and so it may not reflect brilliantly.
(edited 11 years ago)
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