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HMRC indoctrinating young children...

http://bit.ly/QGvok1

This is disgusting.

One module, headlined “tax responsibilities of a good citizen”, aims to help teenagers “understand the obligations if being a good citizen and discuss what should happen to hose who are not prepared to work under such obligations”.

They are trying to exploit young children.

I hope all you lefty student types who think "tax avoidance" is evil and are falling for the government's nonsense realise where this is heading. They are using (misguided) public outrage on this current affairs issue to indoctrinate children with a political opinion that will help protect their vested interest.

As I write this, I feel like I'm acting a bit like a tin hat conspiracy theorist or something.. it feels.. weird. This seems like Orwellian propaganda of the highest degree.

Some will say I'm overreacting but I'm sure I'm not. The whole nation seems to be pulling in a very, very dangerous direction.

Please reassure me.

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Reply 1

Cephalus

Original post by Tom_Hagen

http://bit.ly/QGvok1

This is disgusting.

They are trying to exploit young children.

I hope all you lefty student types who think "tax avoidance" is evil and are falling for the government's nonsense realise where this is heading. They are using (misguided) public outrage on this current affairs issue to indoctrinate children with a political opinion that will help protect their vested interest.

As I write this, I feel like I'm acting a bit like a tin hat conspiracy theorist or something.. it feels.. weird. This seems like Orwellian propaganda of the highest degree.

Some will say I'm overreacting but I'm sure I'm not. The whole nation seems to be pulling in a very, very dangerous direction.

Please reassure me.

This is what they did in Nazi Germany no? I mean not for taxes but for other things?

Reply 2

Tom_Hagen

MagicNMedicine

...

You always seem to have an opinion on the economy/taxation, a slightly leftist one but that makes me more interested in your opinion.

Reply 3

Darkphilosopher

Seems very sensible to me.

All they're doing is teaching kids about the importance of paying tax.

Reply 4

Tommyjw

Think you are exaggerating it a bit tbh.
Everyone paying tax is good for the country and thus good for us as individuals. Thats not to say i despise people who try to avoid it a little (and by that i mean a little, not complete tax cheats)

But it isnt misguided.. it isnt indoctrination.. and it isnt a political pinion either.

Reply 5

TheGrinningSkull

Original post by Tommyjw

Why is it not as simple as changing the law?

If it's legal then people have the right to do it. Why shouldn't they?

What is teaching people about it going to do?

"We have this loophole but we want you not to use it".

This is the impression I'm getting.

I think it's unfair that it exists, but this form of action isn't going to do much in terms of tax avoidance.

Reply 6

Tom_Hagen

Original post by Darkphilosopher

Seems very sensible to me.

All they're doing is teaching kids about the importance of paying tax.

That's a political position though. What business does HMRC, as a public body, have in politics?

Original post by Tommyjw

It definitely is, on all three counts.

1. Taxation is not necessarily good for the country. It would be quite easy to argue that we are currently taxed too much and that excessive taxation is not a productive means of social mobility.

2. Regardless of the answer to 1 - taxation is not good for individuals. It takes away our power as individuals and hands it to the state.

3. I said misguided because I genuinely believe that tax avoiders are doing themselves and us a favour. They keep their money IN the economy. This idea that a reduced level of tax receipts being bad for the country is nonsense. That money in the government's hands is a lot more open to waste.

4. It definitely is indoctrination and it definitely is political opinion. It isn't a fact that taxes are good. Taxes are often used for things we overwhelmingly disagree with on a moral level. Is the Iraq war good?

"Socialism works well, until you run out of other peoples' money..."

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 7

Tommyjw

Original post by TheGrinningSkull

I think it's unfair that it exists, but this form of action isn't going to do much in terms of tax avoidance.

They clearly think otherwise

Reply 8

Tommyjw

Original post by Tom_Hagen

1. Taxation is not necessarily good for the country. It would be quite easy to argue that we are currently taxed too much and that excessive taxation is not a productive means of social mobility.

Okay so lets all pay half the tax we do now, lets see far our emergency services, schools, NHS etc all get on with that, shall we?

Tax is good for the country, what you are arguing is a subjective point about how much is too much. Which, as stated, is subjective, not a real figure by any means, and thus irrelevant to whether the actual idea is good or not.

2. Regardless of the answer to 1 - taxation is not good for individuals. It takes away our power as individuals and hands it to the state.

You dont think paying and thus having access to NHS etc is good for someone?

Takes away power? stop speaking nonsense like it makes any sense.

I said misguided because I genuinely believe that tax avoiders are doing themselves and us a favour. They keep their money IN the economy.

o.0

4. It definitely is indoctrination and it definitely is political opinion. It isn't a fact that taxes are good.

No.. it just isnt.. learn what a word means before spouting it around.

Paying tax is a political opinion? rofl what the **** are you talking about :laugh:

Taxes are often used for things we overwhelmingly disagree with on a moral level. Is the Iraq war good?

That means the uses of tax is not good, not that tax itself is not good.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 9

Darkphilosopher

Original post by Tom_Hagen

That's a political position though. What business does HMRC, as a public body, have in politics?

How so...?

Teaching kids to follow the law could hardly be called political.

Reply 10

Hopple

Oh yes, further disadvantage the youth of this country by filling them with a sense of guilt whenever they do what the older generations have been doing for decades.

Reply 11

Endless Blue

You do seem to be overreacting a little purely on the basis of opposing tax. Lots of people think tax is a good thing, others don't. I don't see how you can call it 'disgusting' because you disagree with it.

Tax is important, although I'd support less of it in some cases (starting with VAT). If it's educating young people about something which they are probably going to be partaking in - regardless of their views - for the rest of their life.

Reply 12

TheGrinningSkull

Original post by Tommyjw

They clearly think otherwise

I agree that tax avoidance is bad, but I don't see how this method works.

Are they trying to get through to the parents by the children?

Are they hoping that one day when a few of these children grow up to be rich, they may remember about the lesson they once had and think about not avoiding tax? I mean this could be a valid approach but it's relying on time and a bit of luck.

:L

Reply 13

Endless Blue

Original post by Tom_Hagen

"Socialism works great, until you run out of other people's money..."

Haha, I don't even think that makes grammatical sense! Surely it should be works 'well'? Also, might be "peoples'" but I'm not sure on that one

Reply 14

Tommyjw

Original post by TheGrinningSkull

Does teaching kids young about safe sex work?

Does teaching kids young about violence, strangers etc work?

Does teaching kids young about helping others work?

Many examples of how there is seemingly effective.. 'education' .. on many topics. I see no reason to question this much at all in terms of if it would do anything.

Reply 15

Tom_Hagen

Original post by Tommyjw

Okay so lets all pay half the tax we do now, lets see far our emergency services, schools, NHS etc all get on with that, shall we?

If there was a flat rate of tax at 25% or 20%? No complex categorisation of income? I definitely think our essential public services would survive.

Personally I would like to see the NHS scrapped completely. But even that could survive with a flat tax.

Tax is good for the country, what you are arguing is a subjective point about how much is too much. Which, as stated, is subjective, not a real figure by any means, and thus irrelevant to whether the actual idea is good or not.

You dont think paying and thus having access to NHS etc is good for someone?

Takes away power? stop speaking nonsense like it makes any sense.

I'll answer this section as one point.

Taxation gives the state a monopoly over certain industries. It gives the state power over the individuals. It gives the state power over groups of individuals. That is a fact. It allows the state to pick winners and losers in every industry.

If the government had no money, do you think all the doctors would suddenly be out of a job? Nonsense. They would charge money for it directly from patients. Patients would have more money in their pockets because they aren't burdened by a cumbersome tax regime. Even then, some medical procedures and medicine would be too expensive. People would pool risk. I.e. take out insurance.

o.0
:facepalm:

No.. it just isnt.. learn what a word means before spouting it around.

Paying tax is a political opinion? rofl what the **** are you talking about :laugh:

No, you're obviously illiterate.

in·doc·tri·na·tion [in-dok-truh-ney-shuhn]
noun
the act of indoctrinating, or teaching or inculcating a doctrine, principle, or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view: religious indoctrination.

My usage of the word is obviously correct and acceptable.

Anyway, I didn't say paying tax is a political opinion. What an absurd conclusion to reach.

Firstly, tax is extracted from people through force. It is impossible for the act to be an opinion.

Secondly, it was quite clear what I was referring to - believing that paying tax is good for people or the country is an opinion. That is what HMRC are trying to indoctrinate children's minds with.

That means the uses of tax is not good, not that tax itself is not good.

The unrestricted power to collect taxes allows the government to abuse the money we give them.

Funny how socialists complain (rightly in my opinion) about so many government decisions. Yet you want to give them more money and more power. Ludicrous.

Anyway - do you think it is acceptable for children to be taught things like this by the government through schools?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 16

Fynch101

Surprise surprise, OP takes Milton Friedman's wisdom out of context, and without any proper economic knowledge, research or sound reasoning, forms an opinion and feels he has the right to broadcast it and let his voice be heard.

Great.

Reply 17

Tom_Hagen

Original post by benpearson1

Haha, I don't even think that makes grammatical sense! Surely it should be works 'well'? Also, might be "peoples'" but I'm not sure on that one