Who do you find more annoying: Champagne Socialists or Hard-nosed tories?

Especially the radical, butch, vegan, lesbian, revolutionary marxists that think the world revolves around their backward ideas :facepalm:

Are you talking about yourself ? :rolleyes:

Reply 21

Carrotcake18

Original post by fuzznbass

Are you talking about yourself ? :rolleyes:

no, I'm conservative :cool:

Reply 22

fuzznbass

10

Original post by Carrotcake18

no, I'm conservative :cool:

Fair enough

Reply 23

Scumbaggio

12

They both piss in the same pot so I didn't vote.

Reply 24

rmpr97

10

Original post by Siman89

Yeah, but at University you generally get more people claiming they're left-wing. Plus if you want small government and low taxes then you're a libertarian, not a socialist, which a lot of them seem to get confused between.

I do have to say though that I find it weird how people over here that quite clearly vote Tory go on about how much they love Obama, because he's so cool, when they actually share the same views as most American Republicans.

No, the Tories are centre right, as is Obama.

Economically they share the same values, although the Tories are slightly more watered down. I.e, and welfare cuts the Tories want, Republicans would want 10x bigger.

However socially they couldn't be further apart, i.e gay marriage, abortion, gun laws, crime, religion and what not.

Also, to do with one of your previous posts.

Yes they do both want tax cuts, however Republications want the top rate for $350k+ to go down from 35% compared to the Tories which is to lower the £150k tax rate from 50%.

The Republicans are further right, possibly aligned somewhere after UKIP but before the BNP.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 25

Rakas21

21

Original post by Siman89

Yeah, but at University you generally get more people claiming they're left-wing. Plus if you want small government and low taxes then you're a libertarian, not a socialist, which a lot of them seem to get confused between.

I do have to say though that I find it weird how people over here that quite clearly vote Tory go on about how much they love Obama, because he's so cool, when they actually share the same views as most American Republicans.

The traditional 1980's social conservatives have a lot in common with the Republicans but the modern intake and youth pretty much consider the social conservatism of the Republicans to be well.. backward. The Democrats are not exactly lefties even if not massively right and so i supported Obama.

Original post by Siman89

They both want stricter rules on immigration, lower taxes, both oppose universal healthcare, I could go on but this list is rather long.

We don't oppose universal healthcare or even the principal of free at the point of service, we simply believe that greater private provision can do this more effectively.

Reply 26

Siman89

OP

6

Original post by danny111

Could you fail more?

The Republicans are more right wing than any of the major European conservative parties. The Democrats are as right wing as the Tories, probably more. Labour could never exist/succeed in the US. There is absolutely nothing inconsistent with voting Tory in the UK and liking Obama.

If you don't believe me, this article from the Telegraph I found after one google:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/walterellis/100142115/there-is-no-proper-left-in-american-politics-even-obama-is-more-right-wing-than-cameron/

So you neg me but don't even reply to my post? Real mature...

I didn't 'neg' you, and the reason I didn't reply to your post is because you used the phrase 'could you fail more', which highlights your own maturity really.

Reply 27

Birkenhead

3

If there's anything I hate more than a Champagne socialist, it's the infantile breed of socialist who very hard-headedly side with any left-wing opinion simply out of tribalistic, unthinking loyalty to their brand. They irritate me all the more for the fact that I used to be one of them.

Reply 28

danny111

3

Original post by Siman89

I didn't 'neg' you, and the reason I didn't reply to your post is because you used the phrase 'could you fail more', which highlights your own maturity really.

"Fail" and its various phrases is a common internet expression that hardly has anything to do with someone's maturity... I don't see your point. Why don't you admit you got nothing to reply with?

Reply 29

Siman89

OP

6

Original post by danny111

"Fail" and its various phrases is a common internet expression that hardly has anything to do with someone's maturity... I don't see your point. Why don't you admit you got nothing to reply with?

Because I don't give a **** about your opinion mate, night

Reply 30

ArtGoblin

16

I don't have a problem with 'Champagne socialists' as long as they're genuine socialists and not just sticking a label on themselves because they think it's cool which I guess is sometimes the case. If you happen to be born into a well-off family but then grow to emphasis with socialist ideas, are you suppose to ignore them because you've been brought up in privilege? I think it's better to acknowledge the advantages you've had and look for a way to change the system even though you've benefited from it rather than be all hard-nosed Tory about it and be like "My parents earnt their money - I deserve all this. If the poor worked hard they could have it all too."

Reply 31

danny111

3

Original post by Siman89

Because I don't give a **** about your opinion mate, night

You don't care about my opinion but then call me "mate". Make up your mind.

Reply 32

HarveyCanis

15

Original post by Carrotcake18

Especially the radical, butch, vegan, lesbian, revolutionary marxists that think the world revolves around their backward ideas :facepalm:

Now I feel really awkward being for being radical, relatively effeminate, sympathetic to vegetarianism/veganism and gay.

Whilst being a firm classical liberal/libertarian/evil capitalist. :unsure:

Reply 33

ralphieinker90

7

Original post by ArtGoblin

I don't have a problem with 'Champagne socialists' as long as they're genuine socialists and not just sticking a label on themselves because they think it's cool which I guess is sometimes the case. If you happen to be born into a well-off family but then grow to emphasis with socialist ideas, are you suppose to ignore them because you've been brought up in privilege? I think it's better to acknowledge the advantages you've had and look for a way to change the system even though you've benefited from it rather than be all hard-nosed Tory about it and be like "My parents earnt their money - I deserve all this. If the poor worked hard they could have it all too."

In my experience the 'socialists' I know are teenagers/people in their twenties from fairly privileged middle/upper-class backgrounds, whereas the Tories I know are older but are originally from working-class/lower middle-class backgrounds but are now rich. They vote Tory not because they feel everyone should be a 'self-made man/woman' and not have any hand-outs or help and they all idolise Thatcher as they see her as the ultimate 'self-made' woman. Maybe my experience is quite odd though and maybe it's usually nothing like that.

I definitely prefer socialists though. Tories have far too much of a winners vs losers feel appeal about them.

Why would someone neg me just for saying my experience ?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 34

Fatfis

Original post by ralphieinker90

In my experience the 'socialists' I know are teenagers/people in their twenties from fairly privileged middle/upper-class backgrounds, whereas the Tories I know are older but are originally from working-class/lower middle-class backgrounds but are now rich. They vote Tory not because they feel everyone should be a 'self-made man/woman' and not have any hand-outs or help and they all idolise Thatcher as they see her as the ultimate 'self-made' woman. Maybe my experience is quite odd though and maybe it's usually nothing like that.

I definitely prefer socialists though. Tories have far too much of a winners vs losers feel appeal about them.

Why would someone neg me just for saying my experience ?

I think it is quite possible to detach your upbringing from your political opinion, and often the right thing to do when attempting an objective view of politics - but it almost never completely works. I would say your experience is illogical from a basic view of the left-right split, I.e conservatives benefit from the current system hence wish to preserve it, leftist wish to change the system which has screwed them - but maybe that's old-fashion marxism.

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Reply 35

Strangey

15

Original post by danny111

Could you fail more?

The Republicans are more right wing than any of the major European conservative parties. The Democrats are as right wing as the Tories, probably more. Labour could never exist/succeed in the US. There is absolutely nothing inconsistent with voting Tory in the UK and liking Obama.

If you don't believe me, this article from the Telegraph I found after one google:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/walterellis/100142115/there-is-no-proper-left-in-american-politics-even-obama-is-more-right-wing-than-cameron/

So you neg me but don't even reply to my post? Real mature...

True, I can't believe how few people realise how distorted left and right wing politics in the US really is. As you said, Obama would be seen as a traditionalist in the Conservative party if he was over here. Labour politicians becoming MPs after work in Unions would be laughed at if we were talking about Senators and Representatives!

Take some +rep to counter the negging!

Reply 36

Fibrillation

6

The people I find annoying are the people who feel too strongly about a political idea, even one that is outdated, just because aspects of that ideal did not benefit them. For example, people who think conservatives are evil because they stopped children being given milk in schools nearly thirty years ago (which admittedly was a pretty mean idea) - yet after 10 years of Labour government milk had not been re-introduced.

Argably, some politicians are gits. But the majority of people who voted conservative are far more interested in the idea of people taking responsibility for their own finances than merely trying to punish people for not earning enough. Likewise, not all people who vote labour think people who have worked hard for a middle-class income should give it away to unemployed immigrants with 13 kids so they can live in mansions in central London.

Most people, even politicians, have ideals that fit a bit of both.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 37

Rakas21

21

Original post by Fatfis

I think it is quite possible to detach your upbringing from your political opinion, and often the right thing to do when attempting an objective view of politics - but it almost never completely works. I would say your experience is illogical from a basic view of the left-right split, I.e conservatives benefit from the current system hence wish to preserve it, leftist wish to change the system which has screwed them - but maybe that's old-fashion marxism.

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Indeed. I myself am the poorest of the poor in Britain (parents on long term welfare) and yet i am a Tory. I am a Tory because i have the seen the welfare trap in action and because i firmly believe in aspiration, i believe the Tory ideology of low taxes and private provision can achieve this best and acknowledge that their will always be winners and losers but that rather than smothering the losers in cotton wool we should give them a small safety net and have them get back up and try again rather than attack those who are successful.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 38

Fatfis

Original post by Rakas21

Indeed. I myself am the poorest of the poor in Britain (parents on long term welfare) and yet i am a Tory. I am a Tory because i have the seen the welfare trap in action and because i firmly believe in aspiration, i believe the Tory ideology of low taxes and private provision can achieve this best and acknowledge that their will always be winners and losers but that rather than smothering the losers in cotton wool we should give them a small safety net and have them get back up and try again rather than attack those who are successful.

The problem in Britain is the winners are all in the finance sector and have been stamping on the losers face repeatedly in view of their success, while the Tory government has been fairly retracting an arguably large benefit system, in a hack and slash manner cutting holes in the safety net and letting many fall through whole the bastard winners are untouched.

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Reply 39

Rakas21

21

Original post by Fatfis

The problem in Britain is the winners are all in the finance sector and have been stamping on the losers face repeatedly in view of their success, while the Tory government has been fairly retracting an arguably large benefit system, in a hack and slash manner cutting holes in the safety net and letting many fall through whole the bastard winners are untouched.

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

I acknowledge that the finance sector is not a moral example certainly (though remember that many are just doing their job - for the bank manager pre-crisis it was sell x mortgages or be fired) but i'd say that any individual earning £50+ (available across a variety of sectors) can be construed as a 'winner' so i think its important not to limit the view of success to evil bankers.

I'm actually in favour of most welfare stuff so far because a lot of things have simply been spun by the left, the biggest thing i'm against is the disability interviews which seem ridiculous (one question being "can you raise your hand above your head") even though i'm in favour of the annual reviews.

Who do you find more annoying: Champagne Socialists or Hard-nosed tories?

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