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Bismarck
My mistake. Is there a reason no one is making a similar documentary about Italy, Greece, Poland, or Serbia?

well everyone already knows serbia is a dump full of xenophobic prats, italy is all for show, and nobody gives a monkeys about the greek. even turkey can't be arsed to start a war anymore with the muppets.
and as for poland. we love them to much. bless them for their builders, barmen (and women i might add) and general nice peeks with decent work ethic.
Refused
Sure. What's also intesting is how the current administrations extreme deep religious beliefs affect millions across the world already; It's known that they fund programs in Africa which promote abstinence and against the use of condoms. We're talking countries engulfed with AIDS.

Watching this program, it's amusing how naive and narrow-minded these kids were despite their intellectuals skills; very good at debating I may add. They're home-schooled, never in contact with the real world and they jump right aboard the Republican party, running around trying to win votes for their candidate concerning issues their poor narrow-minded brains could never comprehend. Brilliant

P.S Narrow-minded intellectual must be the worst oxymoron.


With regards to your first paragraph - there was indeed a programme a month or two back (on channel 4 i think) about religious preachers from America going to an African country (i think it was African, but i could quite easily be wrong), promoting sex with no condoms, no birth control measures, no sex protection...and that country is already rife with STDs, overpopulation and of course, a dreadful amount of poverty, illness, disease et cetera. Extreme, deep religious beliefs are very dangerous, and the last thing we want is a group of American Christian Conservatives flocking by numbers to all corners preaching this kind of stuff.
Reply 42
white_haired_wizard
With regards to your first paragraph - there was indeed a programme a month or two back (on channel 4 i think) about religious preachers from America going to an African country (i think it was African, but i could quite easily be wrong), promoting sex with no condoms, no birth control measures, no sex protection...and that country is already rife with STDs, overpopulation and of course, a dreadful amount of poverty, illness, disease et cetera. Extreme, deep religious beliefs are very dangerous, and the last thing we want is a group of American Christian Conservatives flocking by numbers to all corners preaching this kind of stuff.


Er, are you kidding? I find it hard to believe that they were promoting any kind of sex. :confused: They promote no sex until marriage.
Bismarck
Er, are you kidding? I find it hard to believe that they were promoting any kind of sex. :confused: They promote no sex until marriage.



You choose to spin things i see....well, allow me to 'straighten things' a little for you seeing as you seem to enjoy putting spin on anything and everything.


"promoting A sex with no condoms, no birth control measures, no sex protection....."
Reply 44
Robot Chicken
well everyone already knows serbia is a dump full of xenophobic prats, italy is all for show, and nobody gives a monkeys about the greek. even turkey can't be arsed to start a war anymore with the muppets.
and as for poland. we love them to much. bless them for their builders, barmen (and women i might add) and general nice peeks with decent work ethic.

No need to write more than one sentence, it's easy; US policies affect the whole world, those country don't.
Reply 45
Apagg
Don't let your haste to condemn the BBC lead you into these kind of blunders Bismarck - the documentary was made and shown by Channel 4.

I though the title of this thread was a give away :rolleyes: but hey, any chance of attacking the BBC and they'll take it. I quite like the acronym they and their leader Vienna use for the BBC, something with communism. Brilliant isn't it?
Reply 46
Mad Vlad
"Oh F**K!" was my reaction. Religion has no place in politics.


that pretty much sums up my tuppence too, i was quite offended that these kind of biased and judgemental people would think themselves ro righteous as to think everyone should do what they think is right. secularism in politics is the only way to keep things fair...
Reply 47
It's worrying that a school that teaches such a curriculum can exist in a developed nation - you would expect it in 14th Century Europe or some tribal African backwater, but not 21st C. USA.

The only positive was the fact that young people were interested in politics; I wouldn't expect door-to-door canvassing with such vigour from UK teenagers.

But, the sheer ignorance and hypocrisy was staggering. I really do want to punch the TV when people like that are on it.
Reply 48
you lot all realise that they would say exactly the same thing about most of you- elitist, close minded, arrogant, hypocritical, oppressive...

As for religion and politics, why on earth shouldn't a polititician's religious/ spiritual/ moral beliefs influence them? To a religious person, their faith and what they believe in are often what influences their morals eg. belief in life being a gift from God leading to the moral value that abortion is fundementally wrong. By the secularist argument, an athiest politician can be prolife for non religious reasons and vote on bills accordingly, but a christian politician can't. Secularism does nothing to keep things truely fair for everyone.
Reply 49
LibertineNorth
In the good old days, wealth was considered next door to Godliness and was considered a sign of Divine Approval. A few Americans seem to still believe this.

I wish I'd seen this programme, alas I never manage to catch anything that's on TV anymore.



"Weber sought to explain why Calvanists pursued economic power, when previous religions had trivialised and discarded it. According to this study, Calvanists developed the belief that one could not earn his place in heaven because his place was 'predestined', ascribed, by God. If one was 'elected' to enter Heaven, this was reflected in his economic success, thus signalling to others that economic wealth equalled 'God's favour'. This belief nurtured the religious sanctions in which the aqcuirement of economic wealth was not only rationalised, but encouraged."

It's easier to quote part of an old essay than to remember it all again.... :p:

Anyhew, I saw the documentary. It was annoying.... everytime a hymn started, arms flailed up in the air, eyes scrunched shut.... oh yes, this is passion!

And that bloody Christian band!?!?!?! :eek: Band? Of what? They weren't musicians!............... sorry, getting heated up over bad music.

The documentary was scary.... these are America's future politicians? Will democracy vote these people in and regret having to watch them sully that democracy with bigoted views on 'what is right' and 'what is wrong'? This is dangerously close to Bush's recent endeavour to ban gay marriage (I know it's been mentioned already), although his status seems more symbolic given the overthrow of his efforts. Thank fu**.

Anyway, though these kiddies were annoying, did anybody come close to peeing their pants with laughter? They were ridiculous!
Reply 50
To be honest, I thought the programme makers had gone a little too far in sensationalising this. I happen to know a student at the college in question, and in fact I approve of the college's aims and values. There's nothing sinister about these godly young students wanting to change their country for good, through the democratic system.

Generally people in the UK, especially in the media, don't understand "fundamentalist" Christianity, which I suppose is why they chose the title that they did, and put the spin they did on that programme.
It does worry me a little bit that these people on the programme haven't really mingled with worldy people, I am a Christian and haven't been sheltered from things like sex, drugs, violence, smoking, etc and I still have chosen to be a Christian, its temptation like this that makes you a better person when you refuse to give in!
Secondly some one else put that creationism is a load of rubbish and that there is lots of evidence that the world was made through the big bang and evolution. I myself am not sure about how the process of us coming into existence happended I just know why and who did it. Now its mad to ridicule other peoples views when evolution and the big bang are only theories; they're not PROOVEN, theres no fossil evidence of the changes between animals that have supposedly evolved. Darwin actually rebuked his theory on his deathbed so that one surely stands strong. So be careful in mocking others when your own views aren't prooven either, your making just as big a leap of faith.
Reply 52
Roscamp
It does worry me a little bit that these people on the programme haven't really mingled with worldy people, I am a Christian and haven't been sheltered from things like sex, drugs, violence, smoking, etc and I still have chosen to be a Christian, its temptation like this that makes you a better person when you refuse to give in!
Secondly some one else put that creationism is a load of rubbish and that there is lots of evidence that the world was made through the big bang and evolution. I myself am not sure about how the process of us coming into existence happended I just know why and who did it. Now its mad to ridicule other peoples views when evolution and the big bang are only theories; they're not PROOVEN, theres no fossil evidence of the changes between animals that have supposedly evolved. Darwin actually rebuked his theory on his deathbed so that one surely stands strong. So be careful in mocking others when your own views aren't prooven either, your making just as big a leap of faith.


Do you know what a theory in science means? I think not.
Reply 53
Nor, would it seem, do they know the correct spelling of "proven"
Sorry I don't waste my time learning how to type properly. Yes a theory is an idea, a hypothesis that is widely accepted by the scientific community, not necessarily true though. Like the wording 'it'! :P
Reply 55
SaccerZD
It's worrying that a school that teaches such a curriculum can exist in a developed nation - you would expect it in 14th Century Europe or some tribal African backwater, but not 21st C. USA.

The only positive was the fact that young people were interested in politics; I wouldn't expect door-to-door canvassing with such vigour from UK teenagers.

But, the sheer ignorance and hypocrisy was staggering. I really do want to punch the TV when people like that are on it.


Not really. Seminaries still exist, as do theological colleges and no one seems to be objecting to those. As I said, it is a small, private college. I don't think the students attending that college seemed like 'the politicians of tomorrow'. More like 'the political cheerleaders of tomorrow'. Besides, the college didn't appear to be particularly well-funded. It's hardly Ivy League.

I know complete avoidance of bias is impossible but the makers of this particular documentary didn't even attempt to be objective.
Roscamp
Sorry I don't waste my time learning how to type properly. Yes a theory is an idea, a hypothesis that is widely accepted by the scientific community, not necessarily true though. Like the wording 'it'! :P
Everything in physics is theory. Until it has evidence, it is an hypothesis. Someone says "I think this is how the system works and I predict that if you do this experiment you'll get this answer." Someone then does the experiment and sees if the prediction is right. If it is and there are no experiments contradicting the hypothesis then you're on your way to having a theory.

Much to the misconception of many people, even 'laws' like Newton's Laws of Motion are theories. Infact, relativity (which is used in the big bang model) is vastly superior than Newton's ideas but we call it The Theory of Relativity. Hence, all our models of gravity are theories but I don't see creationists arguing about gravity models. The ideas used to create the PC you're sitting infront of are part of the theory of quantum mechanics. The processes used to make your car work are part of the theory of thermodynamics.

Science calls them theories because despite having enormous quantities of experimental data to back them up, we know there is almost always room for improvement and the theories will be updated as time moves along. That isn't to say that when we find an experiment which shows relativity needs to be updated it'll turn over every single result of relativity. It would mean that a new theory which matches all of relativity's predictions now would have to be found but which matches the new experimental also. Relativity is used so much precisely because it does match all of the experiments we've done.

The amount of evidence for the big bang is enormous. It is quite clear from experiments and observations that at some point in the past (about 13.7 billion years) the universe was extremely hot and extremely small. Using current knowledge and experiments along with very rigorously tested theories of quantum mechanics and relativity we can 'wind the clock back' to about a billionth of a second after the big bang. Before that our theories break down.

That isn't to say they are wrong, in the domains of 'moderate amounts of energy and velocity' our theories work so well that some experiments match theory to the accuracy of measuring the distance from LA to New York to within one thousandth the width of a human hair. It's just that when you get into such extreme circumstances new ideas are needed, just like Newtons 'laws' don't work for high speed or high gravity.

I'm not a biologist, but I've read enough to know that there's plenty of evideence for evolution and combined with physics, there's easily enough to show the Earth isn't younger than 10,000 years like a lot of Christians who take the bible literally think.
Roscamp
Darwin actually rebuked his theory on his deathbed so that one surely stands strong.
No he didn't, it's a myth. Besides, even if he said "I might have been wrong" the last 100 years of evidence and research backs up him being right.
Roscamp
when your own views aren't prooven either, your making just as big a leap of faith.

There is 100 years of experiments to back up special relativity, 90 for general relativity, and 70~100 for quantum mechanics. This includes everything from the 40km long particle accelerator at CERN to watching two neutron stars twice the mass of the sun spin into one another, including the GPS system, semi-conductors and nuclear power. What evidence does instant creation 6,500 years ago have? A book which makes claims like the Earth was covered entirely with water around 6,000 years ago, contradicted by several civilisations which existed then and scientific evidence. It claims pi is exactly 3 (Kings 7:23) which anyone with a wheel and some rope can see it's not.

Don't brush off theories contradicting the bible just because you dont' understand the meaning of the word 'theory' in it's scientific context. Those theories are being put into practical application all around you in modern technology without you complaining about them then.
Roscamp

Secondly some one else put that creationism is a load of rubbish and that there is lots of evidence that the world was made through the big bang and evolution. I myself am not sure about how the process of us coming into existence happended I just know why and who did it. Now its mad to ridicule other peoples views when evolution and the big bang are only theories; they're not PROOVEN, theres no fossil evidence of the changes between animals that have supposedly evolved. Darwin actually rebuked his theory on his deathbed so that one surely stands strong. So be careful in mocking others when your own views aren't prooven either, your making just as big a leap of faith.



Oh dear is there no end to them. :s:

1) Fossil Evidence. There is plenty of it. It is true that we can’t trace the evolutionary routes of every single species using the fossil record but have you any idea how unlikely it is for a animal to be fossilised?
2) Darwin’s theory. As far as I am aware he never took back his theory (unlike Galileo who was forced on pain of death to take back his theory that the sun didn’t orbit the earth.) secondly there is more to evolution than Darwin’s original observations and conclusions. In fact Darwin got quite a lot wrong however since Darwin’s time an enormous amount of work has been done and the evidence for evolution is beyond doubt. For one thing scientists have watched it happen.
3) Scientific Proof. Nothing in science is ever described at proven because to be considered so it would have to have been tested and found accurate at every point in the universe at every point in time. When scientists refer to a theory what they mean is that the hypothesis (original proposal) has been tested beyond reasonable doubt and that no evidence against it has been found.
Reply 58
Don't expect something as trivial as undeniable proof of evolution to dissuade them.
well thanks for that little lesson! always like to find sciency stuff out since i ditched it at GCSE. I'm not saying that evolution and the big bang are wrong, because they could well be, but even though theres lots to support these ideas, its not fact. It annoys me when people laugh at others thoughts.

Just a thought as well to see what people think. ALPHA NUMERIC highlighted the fact that the bible said the earth was completley covered in water, which is true. BUt mayeb that could explain a few things, like why their are dinosaur remains but their not alive now and surely that amount of pressure on the earth could make rock types change and make lots of other stuff happen?! Always an idea i've had, sorry i've not explained it scientifically, just wondered what the response to all that much pressure would be.

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