chances of getting on a decent PhD programme with a merit at MA

OP

With regard to my area of interest, it would appear (like I say I don't know this to be the case)to be a "deal breaker" since the universities whose philosophy departments I would be interested in applying to all seem to stipulate having a distinction as one of their criteria. I suppose what I want to know is a) whether this is something that can be gotten-around, and b) whether I will still be able to apply (realistically) to any good universities as a result of this.

At the moment I have a horrible feeling like I just spent two years being totally broke and miserable, took out a big old loan and got myself into loads of debt only to be handed with a degree that's not even worth the paper its printed on.

Reply 3

returnmigrant

21

Email some Depts that you'd like to research with - outline your academic history (dont give a specific result for your MA) and explain your proposed research area. See what response you get - it may not be the big problem you imagine.

Reply 4

Original post by abominablefunk

, what are my chances of being accepted onto a half-way decent PhD programme with only a merit?

It seems like you have an idea of what a 'half way decent PhD programme' is? I think it was mentioned earlier but what a 'good' department is changes significantly at PhD level and is going to be quite individual to each student, depending on the specific constellation of their research interests. The best department for your project may well be somewhere that will happily take a Merit at MA. Of course, the best department for you may instead be one that insists on a Distinction....but you need to find those departments where your project will be best supported and ask them.

Reply 5

OP

So... I got my certificate through the post a few days ago and it turns out that even though my weighted average is in the mid 60's, my grade classification is only a pass and not a merit, as I thought. According to the information I found, students have to have at least 120 credits at 60 or above, which means you need a merit in the dissertation. I narrowly missed this.

Naturally I understand that what a "good" university is depends on my research interests. Unfortunately there are only 3 or 4 universities in the country with departments where my area of interest is shared by the philosophy department. I've been in contact with some of them, but it seems at first glance they all require a merit or above.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I get the impression that the only university that would accept me right now would be the university of chavdom in London to do a course in club music!

Reply 6

Octohedral

16

Original post by abominablefunk

So... I got my certificate through the post a few days ago and it turns out that even though my weighted average is in the mid 60's, my grade classification is only a pass and not a merit, as I thought. According to the information I found, students have to have at least 120 credits at 60 or above, which means you need a merit in the dissertation. I narrowly missed this.

Naturally I understand that what a "good" university is depends on my research interests. Unfortunately there are only 3 or 4 universities in the country with departments where my area of interest is shared by the philosophy department. I've been in contact with some of them, but it seems at first glance they all require a merit or above.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I get the impression that the only university that would accept me right now would be the university of chavdom in London to do a course in club music!

That seems so unfair. I understand how you feel - I did badly in my second year (entirely my own fault) and well in my third year, and now it feels like nobody cares how good I really am, they only care about my average. It's so competitive even in sciences, so I can imagine what it's like in a specific sub-discipline of philosophy.

I'd say don't give up. Can you write a research paper or anything? If you can get a paper published, or get an unpaid research position or something it will make a difference - the admissions tutors aren't automatons. As a last resort you could work for a year and do a second MA with the money. Or just a dissertation module at the OU. It all depends on how much you want it.

Meanwhile, apply to everything you can, even if it's outside your area of interest. All you need is one opening, an you can work your way into what you want. :smile:

Reply 7

OP

Original post by Octohedral

That seems so unfair. I understand how you feel - I did badly in my second year (entirely my own fault) and well in my third year, and now it feels like nobody cares how good I really am, they only care about my average. It's so competitive even in sciences, so I can imagine what it's like in a specific sub-discipline of philosophy.

I'd say don't give up. Can you write a research paper or anything? If you can get a paper published, or get an unpaid research position or something it will make a difference - the admissions tutors aren't automatons. As a last resort you could work for a year and do a second MA with the money. Or just a dissertation module at the OU. It all depends on how much you want it.

Meanwhile, apply to everything you can, even if it's outside your area of interest. All you need is one opening, an you can work your way into what you want. :smile:

I'd had similar thoughts, though my main priority atm is to get PhD/Mphil proposals and applications written before the funding deadlines in January/February. Though that might turn out to be a massive waste of effort...

I don't know what it's like in the sciences, but I don't think I've ever seen a published research paper in my subject that had been written by someone outside of academia (as in, someone who did not have, or was not studying for a PhD). That's not to say they don't exist, I've just never seen one.

Do you know anyone who has done this? If so, how did they go about it?

The closest thing to it was a friend who asked someone at his local university if he would help him publish a paper. The academic said no to the idea of an original piece of research, but said he would help if my friend wrote a review of one of his novels.

(It's ironic I feel that papers in philosophy only tend to get taken seriously if they're written by someone with letters after their name. It's as if you should be able to take what they've written on the author's authority rather than the merits of their argument, which is the exact opposite of philosophy if you ask me.)

Reply 8

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

Original post by abominablefunk

So... I got my certificate through the post a few days ago and it turns out that even though my weighted average is in the mid 60's, my grade classification is only a pass and not a merit, as I thought. According to the information I found, students have to have at least 120 credits at 60 or above, which means you need a merit in the dissertation. I narrowly missed this.

Naturally I understand that what a "good" university is depends on my research interests. Unfortunately there are only 3 or 4 universities in the country with departments where my area of interest is shared by the philosophy department. I've been in contact with some of them, but it seems at first glance they all require a merit or above.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I get the impression that the only university that would accept me right now would be the university of chavdom in London to do a course in club music!

Hey, don't knock researching club music! :mad:

I have a mid-Merit from Goldsmiths (average of 66, with only one module rated at Distinction level, and that wasn't my dissertation either!) but have had interest from the unis I am interested in applying to (Birmingham, UEA and Royal Holloway). I actually have a place already for RHUL, having convinced them enough that I am a good, solid worker/applicant and would make a good PhD student... so I just need to apply for the funding.

I think in my case, the key things that worked in my favour, despite my relatively poor transcripts (2.2 at undergrad), were:

- strong references from well-known names in the field
- a rather interesting proposal that hasn't been done yet in my field

I'd say explain your situation to the unis you are interested in. I'm fairly confident that if they like you enough as a candidate and think your PhD idea is viable, they will give you a place. The real bitch for you will be getting the funding. But then it's hard for ANYONE/EVERYONE to get the funding these days :sadnod:

Good luck! :h:

Reply 9

Original post by abominablefunk

So... I got my certificate through the post a few days ago and it turns out that even though my weighted average is in the mid 60's, my grade classification is only a pass and not a merit, as I thought. According to the information I found, students have to have at least 120 credits at 60 or above, which means you need a merit in the dissertation. I narrowly missed this.

Naturally I understand that what a "good" university is depends on my research interests. Unfortunately there are only 3 or 4 universities in the country with departments where my area of interest is shared by the philosophy department. I've been in contact with some of them, but it seems at first glance they all require a merit or above.

I hate to sound like a snob, but I get the impression that the only university that would accept me right now would be the university of chavdom in London to do a course in club music!

What do you mean by 'shared by the philosophy department'? It's always nice to have a critical mass of people doing similar work, and especially nice to have a whole department that shares your methodological bent (though, potentially blinkering); at the same time, though, all you really need for a UK PhD is a great supervisor (and this person's reputation generally trumps departmental, or university reputation). It's very hard to tell from the info you've given whether you're targetting particular supervisors, or just departments/institutions.

In any case, I completely agree with TLG.

Reply 10

Klix88

17

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

The real bitch for you will be getting the funding. But then it's hard for ANYONE/EVERYONE to get the funding these days

Especially this.

The one person on my Masters course with a Merit had six PhD offers, including Oxford. She hasn't been able to find funding and so had to turn all of them down and is now applying to US universities.

I have a Distinction. Whilst I'm just coming to the Transfer stage of a PhD, I'm self-funding and won't be able to complete as I haven't been able to find funding.

Of the other two people on my Masters with a Distinction, one gave up trying to find a funded PhD and went into university admin. The other is interning for free at a uni in the hope that this will let them get their names on some publications, which might give them an edge with funding. They can only afford to do that because they have a partner who's paying the bills.

Don't get tied up with the Merit - it's a decent result and with good academic references, can take you into a PhD. It's the funding you need to worry about.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 11

OP

Original post by madamemerle

What do you mean by 'shared by the philosophy department'? It's always nice to have a critical mass of people doing similar work, and especially nice to have a whole department that shares your methodological bent (though, potentially blinkering); at the same time, though, all you really need for a UK PhD is a great supervisor (and this person's reputation generally trumps departmental, or university reputation). It's very hard to tell from the info you've given whether you're targetting particular supervisors, or just departments/institutions.

In any case, I completely agree with TLG.

Okay, so most universities in England have departments who concentrate on "analytical philosophy", whereas the ones I want to apply for have departments that specialise in "continental philosophy". Obviously within those categories there is a lot of variation, but between the two there is very little in common. I can't apply to do a PhD at a uni that does analytical philosophy because there would be no one suitable to advise me, nor would I be able to adapt my interests enough to make it viable.

For example, I couldn't apply to Cambridge (my grades notwithstanding) for instance, unless I was interested in formal logic, logical positivism, philosophy of mathematics, or cognitive science-based theory of knowledge. Since I have very little knowledge or interest in these subjects I obviously can't apply to these departments.

On the other hand, I can apply to a university like Warwick or Sussex, because even though the tutors in these departments mostly do not share the exact same interests as me, I at least have enough of a grounding in things like German idealism or Critical Theory that I could write something worthwhile about them. Ideally, however, I would apply somewhere like Kingston or Essex, because I know that there are definitely people who have the same interests as me - phenomenology and post-structuralism.

So in answer to your question, I am targeting particular advisers as a priority, but also particular departments. In fairness, philosophy is probably the only subject that has this problem.

Reply 12

Original post by abominablefunk

Okay, so most universities in England have departments who concentrate on "analytical philosophy", whereas the ones I want to apply for have departments that specialise in "continental philosophy". Obviously within those categories there is a lot of variation, but between the two there is very little in common. I can't apply to do a PhD at a uni that does analytical philosophy because there would be no one suitable to advise me, nor would I be able to adapt my interests enough to make it viable.

For example, I couldn't apply to Cambridge (my grades notwithstanding) for instance, unless I was interested in formal logic, logical positivism, philosophy of mathematics, or cognitive science-based theory of knowledge. Since I have very little knowledge or interest in these subjects I obviously can't apply to these departments.

On the other hand, I can apply to a university like Warwick or Sussex, because even though the tutors in these departments mostly do not share the exact same interests as me, I at least have enough of a grounding in things like German idealism or Critical Theory that I could write something worthwhile about them. Ideally, however, I would apply somewhere like Kingston or Essex, because I know that there are definitely people who have the same interests as me - phenomenology and post-structuralism.

So in answer to your question, I am targeting particular advisers as a priority, but also particular departments. In fairness, philosophy is probably the only subject that has this problem.

I thought that might be the case. I did my MA at Essex myself (in an interdisciplinary program that has some connection to philosophy)...though I don't know the Philosophy/Art History dept that well, my experience in their other departments suggests that they are fairly flexible when it comes to entrance requirements, particularly if the prospective PhD student has made a connection with a faculty member who is interested in their work.

You might also be able to do your planned project in other departments than philosophy, depending on what it is....Birkbeck's humanities departments tend to be very friendly towards continental thought, as do some of Goldsmiths. I'd also seriously consider looking at other European uni's, especially uni's in the Netherlands, Scandinavia and Germany (if you speak German, which seems a plus for Continental Philosophy any way).

Maybe you did your MA at Essex? Wherever you did it, do you have a good relationship with any of the continentally inclined faculty? They'll have connections in other departments and that should also be a help, if you have someone that can say, even informally, 'abominablefunk is a talented student etc' that can help allay worries about your dissertation mark.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 13

To add: I meant Cultural Studies or Visual Culture at Goldsmiths, also Leeds' department of Art History and Cultural Studies is very post structuralist, from what I can tell.

Reply 14

Also, doesn't Nottingham have a Critical Theory PhD that allows a focus on French theory (if that's your thing)?

Reply 15

OP

I'm not particularly interested in Cultural Studies- not that I don't think it's a valid field of research, it's just not my thing. If I were to do a degree outside of philosophy I would go and do a literature degree, since my that's what the other half of my BA was. I'll have to look into the Nottingham one.

Reply 16