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QTS only, no PGCE

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^^ Your point 3 seems to largely depend on the school/the experiences of the individual. I did QTS only and did not have such an experience.

I thought I had already posted on this thread, but it appears not! So here goes.

Having taught unqualified in international schools since 2008, I obtained my QTS via assessment-only in the 2013-2014 academic year. I too was able to compile my file in a leisurely manner while undergoing all of the necessary observations, tests etc.

I can fully demonstrate academic rigour through the fact that I also have a master's degree in linguistics. I don't think I necessarily need a PGCE on top in order to show this.

Many international schools will frankly hire you just with a master's degree. While the 'better' ones will arguably restrict themselves to qualified teachers only, QTS is sufficient to fulfil this criterion.

Sadly it is a myth that PGCEs are automatically portable everywhere in the world. My aunt gained her PGCE in 1983 (having completed a degree in French and Italian immediately before this) and taught in schools for 10 years in the UK before becoming a headteacher (she did this for 7 years). However, when she moved to France, local schools refused to hire her because she didn't have French teaching qualifications. Equally, more recently, a French friend of mine who completed her PGCE at Oxford more recently (I think in 2014) found that she had to gain the French teaching qualification on top of this when she returned to France as the PGCE was not accepted. Even though EU law dictates that their qualifications should have been recognised, this is frequently not the case in practice.

In short, even a PGCE is not a guarantee of portability internationally. Pay portability has been abolished anyway (even nationally) as far as I understand it - so in my view you should go into teaching via the route that works for you. For me, a PGCE + NQT year would not have worked as this would have involved me giving up my job and returning to the UK for 2 years. My husband would not have been able to come with me due to the nature of his work, so for me being to gain QTS via assessment-only in my own school was the perfect solution.

(Original post by Angelil)^^ Your point 3 seems to largely depend on the school/the experiences of the individual. I did QTS only and did not have such an experience.

I thought I had already posted on this thread, but it appears not! So here goes.

Having taught unqualified in international schools since 2008, I obtained my QTS via assessment-only in the 2013-2014 academic year. I too was able to compile my file in a leisurely manner while undergoing all of the necessary observations, tests etc.

I can fully demonstrate academic rigour through the fact that I also have a master's degree in linguistics. I don't think I necessarily need a PGCE on top in order to show this.

Many international schools will frankly hire you just with a master's degree. While the 'better' ones will arguably restrict themselves to qualified teachers only, QTS is sufficient to fulfil this criterion.

Sadly it is a myth that PGCEs are automatically portable everywhere in the world. My aunt gained her PGCE in 1983 (having completed a degree in French and Italian immediately before this) and taught in schools for 10 years in the UK before becoming a headteacher (she did this for 7 years). However, when she moved to France, local schools refused to hire her because she didn't have French teaching qualifications. Equally, more recently, a French friend of mine who completed her PGCE at Oxford more recently (I think in 2014) found that she had to gain the French teaching qualification on top of this when she returned to France as the PGCE was not accepted. Even though EU law dictates that their qualifications should have been recognised, this is frequently not the case in practice.

In short, even a PGCE is not a guarantee of portability internationally. Pay portability has been abolished anyway (even nationally) as far as I understand it - so in my view you should go into teaching via the route that works for you. For me, a PGCE + NQT year would not have worked as this would have involved me giving up my job and returning to the UK for 2 years. My husband would not have been able to come with me due to the nature of his work, so for me being to gain QTS via assessment-only in my own school was the perfect solution.

Reply 21

username1799249

Original post by HdotMulla

(Original post by Angelil)
Sadly it is a myth that PGCEs are automatically portable everywhere in the world. My aunt gained her PGCE in 1983 (having completed a degree in French and Italian immediately before this) and taught in schools for 10 years in the UK before becoming a headteacher (she did this for 7 years). However, when she moved to France, local schools refused to hire her because she didn't have French teaching qualifications. Equally, more recently, a French friend of mine who completed her PGCE at Oxford more recently (I think in 2014) found that she had to gain the French teaching qualification on top of this when she returned to France as the PGCE was not accepted. Even though EU law dictates that their qualifications should have been recognised, this is frequently not the case in practice.

I think that is a French thing though. It is the same in mountaineering. You can have every mountaineering qualification under then sun, but if you don't have the French one, you can't guide in France. That said, the PGCE is held in high regard across the world generally. British teachers in much demand all over the world, especially in the East and Middle East.

Reply 22

Blbrown2

Original post by ST10

I've had a quick search but thought I'd ask anyway.

A lot of the schools direct places seem to only offer QTS & not a PGCE. I wondered if this would put me at a disadvantage in the future if I only had QTS and not the PGCE?

Thanks for any help!

Only do the pgce if you want to travel aboard it helps if not then it shouldn’t really matter ,as you will be a qualified teacher at the end of the day.

Reply 23

Angelil

You don't want to work for a school that insists on the PGCE anyway - it shows they don't really understand the system. QTS is QTS no matter how you got it.

Reply 24

mathqts1

Wait, so I have a Bsc, both my QTS and u quit school direct pgce 2 years ago and now after doing all these insane TA jobs , I could actually apply for teaching positions. I have a aTA interview on Friday, KS2 and it's a English lesson with a story of my choice with an activity after as well as a written test and then a further interview. Having been a behaviour specialist for camhs and TA I am never too sure being a TA is fulfilling or worthwhile. But, if I can teach then I would definitely love to teach KS1 or year 3-4?

Reply 25

Tasha- may

Hi Angelil

How did you get your QTS via assessment? Was that through a particular uni? I have also worked in an International School ( unqualified). However since then I’ve gained a PG Cert ( it’s quite different to the PG Cer Ed)
Thanks - T

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 26

Angelil

Original post by Tasha- may

Sorry to have only just seen this. You should talk to Educators Abroad: they deal with candidates all over the world via a variety of universities.

Reply 27

Fbrett

Hi there. Would you mind providing an idea of the locations of the British Int’ schools you have worked at? I am gaining a QTS through SCITT this year. I was going to do the PGCE alongside however was warned it was a lot of extra work and because it would be gained in a SCITT route it struggles to get recognised internationally anyway). I do want to teach abroad however I know only gaining a QTS puts me at a disadvantage to this. Was it a difficult process for you? Thank you in advance. I’d really appreciate some guidance!

Reply 28

Angelil

I have worked in international schools (NB not British international schools) in France and the Netherlands. It really seems to depend on the country as to whether they want the PGCE and in others they actually value the NQT period even more. The QTS/Assessment-Only Route process was not difficult for me (see my posts further upthread) but when I arrived in the Netherlands I was shocked to discover that they wanted my NQT period to be completed on top, which eventually I had no choice but to do (despite teaching since 2008). So my main piece of advice would be to ensure your NQT period is complete once you have QTS, before you go anywhere else. It’s more important than the PGCE in my experience. Most places though are just happy that you have QTS.

Reply 29

Picklepuppy

I’ve just finished my first year of Teach First and have been recommended for QTS, next year I’ll get my PGDE which is higher than a PGCE. In my experience being in the classroom is where you’re going to learn the most, the theory is interesting but actually being in the class is where you are going learn. I have several friends who are deputy heads, none of them have a PGDE, they only have QTS so tbh I’m not sure what the point of it is.

Reply 30

Kaveens

Original post by claretmad

School-led trainee teachers face career risks arising from the approach that is being taken. The Department for Education (DfE) has promoted and tripled the number of places allocated to School Direct. However, as you rightly say, this route can result in trainee teachers only achieving Qualified Teacher Status (QTS). It is not always being made clear to applicants that some of the school-led training programmes only lead to QTS and not to academic qualifications that are fully portable.
In contrast, teacher training that leads to university qualifications, such as a B.ED or a first degree and then PGCE, as well as QTS, results in teachers achieving qualifications that are recognised not only nationally, but also in other parts of the United Kingdom as well as internationally.
So in a word, yes, you would be disadvantaged in the future by only gaining QTS but the DfE appear to be conveniently forgeting to inform School Direct applicants of this very important fact.

If I already have a Masters Degree in Linguistics and Education, and now I want to get the iQTS, do you think it would compensate just as fine as the PGCE?