getting into a mc firm

Yep, but you would need a sparkling career to join at a high level and be laterally hired. Or you would need to be very lucky for a vacancy to occur at your level and you to be successful in securing it, all in all a TC is by far the easiest route.

Reply 2

Purple

15

Why don't you think you can get a TC?

Reply 3

chalks

12

Lewis-HuStuJCR

Yep, but you would need a sparkling career to join at a high level and be laterally hired. Or you would need to be very lucky for a vacancy to occur at your level and you to be successful in securing it, all in all a TC is by far the easiest route.

I'm afraid I disagree.

MC firms recruit the best undergrads that they can. They base their recruitment policy on certain discernable critera - quality of A-level grades, quality of University attended, variety/strength of extra-curricular activities. Those criteria are, understandably, the ones which the firms feel are the best way of judging whether or not an individual will become a good lawyer. Its a big balancing exercise - those with amazing academics but zero other skills won't be much use in the commercial environment, likewise someone with a 2:2 from Luton but a fabulous range of inter-personal skills isn't going to make the grade intellectually.

The position changes once you've started work. Suddenly, the fact that someone was at Oxford or Leeds Met (you know who you are) becomes irrelevant. Your ability at the job at hand becomes all important. So, when an MC firm is looking to take somebody else on into a team, they look to recruit the best lawyer for the job i.e those with the best experience and ability on the job - not the best academically educated. Ironically, it is those from smaller firms who tend to get the most experience and responsibility at an earlier stage in their careers.

As the legal job market changes, so people move firms with increasing regularity. It wasn't that long ago that people would stay with the same firm for years and years. Today, lawyers move firms/regions (even jurisdictions!) far more regularly and they do so based on their experience and ability.

So, to cut and extremely long-winded post short, it is certainly possible to start your career with a smaller firm and move to a larger one. I know many colleagues who have done so.

Please don't feel as though working for a smaller firm means that, in any way, you would be less accomplished than if you were working for an MC firm. Give some thought to the fact that many many lawyers leave those big City firms to work for smaller firms not that much later in their careers....

Reply 4

Yea I think I have actually posted something along your lines of thinking somewhere else ... or certainly thought it myself, that uni becomes less relevant later on. But still, you must agree that therefore I am correct as in order to become the best "lawyer" and not "undergrad" in their eyes you would indeed need, maybe not a sparkling, but a very strong career. OK so the use of the word luck was inappropriate, but I am close to correct, if worded wrong.

Reply 5

chalks

The position changes once you've started work. Suddenly, the fact that someone was at Oxford or Leeds Met (you know who you are) becomes irrelevant

x Elle

PS. Lewis there is no need to be rude. We are a friendly helpful forum. I wish you all the best in your career, warning points or no warning points :smile:

Reply 6

Also conveniently when I was on my vac scheme it was convenient how most of the partners were the ones with first class degrees, hmmmm. (and yes their class was listed in their staff database, i spent time reading about ppl when i was bored cos they had interesting experience)

2 uses of convenient, but i dont care :biggrin:

Reply 7

Purple

15

If you done you TC at a firm and they decided to keep you upon qualifying would you be able to leave after a year or so or are you tied in with a contract for a set period of time?

Reply 8

dragon_1706

kirstinx

If you done you TC at a firm and they decided to keep you upon qualifying would you be able to leave after a year or so or are you tied in with a contract for a set period of time?

I've seen small firms advertising TCs saying they have a clause where you have to commit to staying for 2 years after qualifying. I'm not sure, but I think that it might be that they'll pay your LPC fees on the condition that you'll stay. Otherwise, you can do what you like!

Reply 9

What are you on about warning points? I was merely making the point that he had, in effect, agreed with me just I didnt make it clear that by career i meant post qualification, and it would be extremely hard to get a job in an MC at a higher level later on.

Reply 10

Lewis-HuStuJCR

What are you on about warning points?

I was joking, seeing as you can get warning points for anti-TSR rules rants!! :wink:

And how you were joking about points being career threatening or something?! (although the post I wanted to quote you on seems to have been deleted now!)

I wanted to ask you about your TC actually, have you got one yet?? Because I know you want to work in London, well my firm has an office there so I'll probably try and do at least one seat down there purely for the experience, so was just wondering if you knew who you would be working for :smile:

Reply 11

kirstinx

If you done you TC at a firm and they decided to keep you upon qualifying would you be able to leave after a year or so or are you tied in with a contract for a set period of time?

My firm doesn't tie me in at all - as long as I complete the two year training period and complete all 4 seats and Professional Skills Course successfully, then I can leave. Although I don't intend to (all being well) and I'm sure they'll want me to stay (as long as they're happy with me) because it's such a huge financial investment to take on a trainee, and if I just go to a different firm, its wasted I suppose...

But Kaiserselsek is right, it does depend on the individual firms' policy :cool:

Reply 12

superdillon

7

I guess reasons that people would want to move from one firm to another is money, right?
Or do they look for better positions that they enjoy doing?

Reply 13

superdillon

I guess reasons that people would want to move from one firm to another is money, right?
Or do they look for better positions that they enjoy doing?

When you qualify, at the end of your two year training contract, you then have to apply for a job as a newly-qualified solicitor in the department you want.
So if you want Criminal in the Leeds office, all they may be able to offer is Criminal in London office, or Corporate in Leeds for example. You may be to compromise on what you want, and if the compromise is too much for you, then you may decide to look elsewhere.
Money may come into the equation, I suppose that would be individual choice, whether you were at a regional firm but had the opportunity to go to London, or whatever you're personal circumstances were at the time.

This is how it works at the firms I did vac schemes with - they are not MC firms though, but are highly regarded national firms (one is Top 20). I'm not sure if the process is different within MC firms.

However, the trainees / NQs I talked to got the departments they wanted - after all, the firm won't want to lose their investment in you. Fingers crossed we'll all get what we want!! :wink:

Reply 14

Its too early for me to sort a TC out yet actually, cos of this year abroad my degree being 4 years I wont start until 2009, but am thoroughly looking forward (gulps) to the application process :biggrin:

.

Reply 15

Purple

15

ellewoods

My firm doesn't tie me in at all - as long as I complete the two year training period and complete all 4 seats and Professional Skills Course successfully, then I can leave. Although I don't intend to (all being well) and I'm sure they'll want me to stay (as long as they're happy with me) because it's such a huge financial investment to take on a trainee, and if I just go to a different firm, its wasted I suppose...

But Kaiserselsek is right, it does depend on the individual firms' policy :cool:

I'll be wanting to stay a year or 2 after the training contract, I wouldn't want to stay in London all my life.

Reply 16

Most firms dont tie you in I dont think, they rely on the fact that you will either like them and they will like you or not and thus the decision will be easy. Also dont be fooled by all this guff they spin you like "it costs us all this money to train you" because they make it back in under 2 years, easy. Because they will set you billing targets and wont look to make a loss lol.

Reply 17

Lewis-HuStuJCR

Also dont be fooled by all this guff they spin you like "it costs us all this money to train you" because they make it back in under 2 years, easy. Because they will set you billing targets and wont look to make a loss lol.

I'm not "fooled" :mad:

- I am fairly intelligent Lewis, believe it or not.

I wasn't referring to a pound-by-pound breakdown of financial investment as such, of course you are going to make money back for the firm, my point was, the firm will want to keep a trainee in which they have invested not only money but time and effort. The trainee will know the firm, the firm will know the trainee, and as long as there are no problems with performance, the firm would obviously wish to retain the trainee wherever possible.
Recruitment is a hefty process to go through - as you will find out when you come to apply :wink:

- and the firm will not want to go through it again for the sake of it when they could have retained the trainee by, for example, helping to find them a suitable position in the department they wish to work within.

Reply 18

That wasn't directed at you, and anyway even the most intelligent of people can be fooled by things. It was just a general observations.

Anyway, it is my firm belief that firms only have all of these elaborate systems so that if they recruit someone whos rubbish no-one gets the blame and they can say "well on these tests he performed strongest". Of course they have some use, but I wonder if they are that good why not all firms employ them, I am suspicious.

Reply 19