The Israel-Palestine Conflict Mk.III

Original post by The_Dragonborn

Don't give me that. If things were reversed, if it was Palestinians who took an Israeli child prisoner, the media here would ****ing explode.

If to you an example of a decent country is one that takes children prisoner, then I have to say I'm pretty shocked.

Notice I said "despite what happens in the West Bank". Besides, Palestine is a tyranny (especially Gaza, run by Islamist terrorists), and nobody bats an eyelid, so what you say is false.

OK then, please name a large-scale realistic movement for liberal democracy in the middle east, other than Israel.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8942

Original post by presidential_

Wait..... are you justifying giving away someone else's land away? If the government gave half of your house to a homeless person to legally OWN would you think that's "perfectly justified"? Doubt it.

Yes, I understand the Jews suffered a lot, (and muslims have been there for them, like the time when christian spain kicked all the jews out of spain, the only people to accept them were the ottoman empire, or during WWII when muslims in france hid the Jews in their mosques. There are many other occasions). But I still fail to understand the need to split and share someone else's land. Yes, if the jews moved to palestine to live there under palestinian rule doubt there would be such a big problem.

Even the jewish people protest agaisnt the zionist government of isreal....

Er, under Ottoman rule Jews and people of other religions (and none) were dhimmis (or worse). It treated its Jews better than Europe, but trust me that isn't hard. So I wouldn't go down the route of saying it was all fine and dandy under Ottoman rule. Besides, the Ottoman empire was a genocidal tyranny and was on its last legs even before WW1. My next question is therefore: what is wrong with creating a new democratic state in a region where a colonial power has lost its influence? (Whether you're talking about the Ottomans or the temporary French and British mandates).

And another question: do you not think the states of Jordan, Syria or Lebanon should have been created either?

The problem is not Israel. The problem is lack of democracy and lack of freedom, in the regions which surround Israel including the West Bank and Gaza.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8943

Illiberal Liberal

Original post by felamaslen

The problem is not Israel. The problem is lack of democracy and lack of freedom, in the regions which surround Israel including the West Bank and Gaza.

Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any other country in UN history.

Reply 8944

Original post by Law-Hopeful

Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any other country in UN history.

That says more about the UN than Israel. The UN should be spending its time criticising North Korea, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, more than Israel.

Also, I don't deny that Israel has committed crimes. That doesn't change the fact that it remains the only viable hope for a democratic middle east, and it also doesn't change the fact that the main problem in the middle east is religious fanaticism emanating from places like Syria, Iraq etc.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8945

Illiberal Liberal

Original post by felamaslen

That says more about the UN than Israel. The UN should be spending its time criticising North Korea, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, more than Israel.

Since 1967 27,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel. Israel currently has 262 Jewish-only settlements on confiscated Palestinian land.

Funny how Israel are reluctant to criticise Russia for annexing Crimea, don't want to set a precedent for themselves I guess?

Reply 8946

Original post by Law-Hopeful

Since 1967 27,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel. Israel currently has 262 Jewish-only settlements on confiscated Palestinian land.

Funny how Israel are reluctant to criticise Russia for annexing Crimea, don't want to set a precedent for themselves I guess?

Well I already said that I don't deny Israeli crimes, so you're attacking a straw man here. None of this affects my claim that Israel represents the only democratic hope for the middle east currently, especially given what we've seen from Iraq and Egypt in the past decade.

Reply 8947

GnomeMage

Original post by DouglasAdams

You all seem very quick to condemn Israel's actions as per the UN's statements, but ignore the UN's assertion for Israel's right to exist.
I do not understand the hate for the only real democracy in the region, in which women are allowed to drive and be free citizens, betrayers of the state do not get the heads cut off in public and posted onto YouTube and is a strong ally of the US. Also, the fact that Gaza is run by an official terrorist group and that it fires rockets into Israel every day in times of truce (a fact which Israel largely ignores) is neglected by you folks, perhaps due to the slightly biased reporting of the BBC.
Propaganda like the above picture has no source and can easily be fabricated.

Also, facts such as the legal purchase of over 90% of Arab land by the Israeli government or Israeli families living in Israel today are also largely unreported. Many Israeli families hold the deeds still today to prove the legal transfer and purchase of property.

Try going to Israel and marry a jewish women, then you can experience their "democracy" and "civilization" first hand. :borat:

Reply 8948

Original post by GnomeMage

Try going to Israel and marry a jewish women, then you can experience their "democracy" and "civilization" first hand. :borat:

Well, I'm Jewish so should be pretty easy. But I hope you don't mind me spending a bit of time before picking one.

Reply 8949

The_Internet

20

Original post by MarkAustinPowers

lol whatever, when you see fake video clips of bbc apparently showing assad using chemical weapons on his own people their not fake are they lol,

I have to agree tbh. Im no stranger to criticising Israel or any other country for that matter, but we really do need a source (for any thing like this)

Though, I guess this is also going to turn in to a "You criticise Israel. You must hate Jews" thread.... (Which is silly, because Im perfectly happy with criticising countries like the KSA, the USA, the UK, Pakistan, North Korea, South Korea,China etc.. etc... because by that logic, I apparently hate pretty much every one :biggrin:

Reply 8950

Original post by presidential_

Why didn't they broadcast this on the news :confused:

??? Oh yh, forgot......the jews own 96% of the world media. :colone:

Now that is pure racism, almost entirely echoing Nazi stereotypes.
But then again, that mischevious grin suggests you're not too fussed being compared to Hitler or Goebbels and in fact racism is probably quite amusing to you.

Reply 8951

Original post by Law-Hopeful

Where has anyone on this thread disputed Israel's right to exist?

People have put forward the case that Jews have invaded Palestine, thereby implying Palestine having a right to exist and Israel to not.

Reply 8952

Illiberal Liberal

DouglasAdams

People have put forward the case that Jews have invaded Palestine, thereby implying Palestine having a right to exist and Israel to not.

Since 1967 27,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel. Israel currently has 262 Jewish-only settlements on confiscated Palestinian land.

I'd say that constitutes invading Palestine. But I wouldn't say that nullifies Israel's right to exist. Israel are the one denying Palestine's right to statehood. Requiring them to stop joining international treaties or else Israel won't continue 'peace negotiations'?

Funny how Israel are reluctant to criticise Russia for annexing Crimea, don't want to set a precedent for themselves I guess?

Reply 8953