Oxford Maths and Philosophy Students and Applicants

I just found out about this course and it looks awesome :teeth:

I'll definitely consider this course.

I'm starting my a-levels in September and I was wondering if it'd be beneficial to take philosophy?
It is available at my school but the timetable block doesn't fit with the rest of my subjects :/
I'm doing maths, further maths and physics for sure (my top3 choices)

What are philosophy interviews like?

I didn't do philosophy A level; in fact, most of the people doing philosophy I know didn't. Obviously it depends on the board, but most philosophy A level syllabuses seem a little superficial to me, and they don't tend to cover lots of important areas. You shouldn't feel any pressure to take it.

Philosophy interviews vary massively. However, they won't presume any knowledge. They'll expect you to have read some stuff because you're interested, but they won't expect anything specific. They look into how you think, so they might give you a logic problem and see how you work through it, or present an argument and ask you to analyse or criticise it, or ask your opinion on something - it really depends on the tutor. In my interview, we spent the first ten minutes discussing ethical dilemmas and how you approach them, and then the rest of the time we discussed epistemology, cause I'd written that I was interested in it on my PS.

Reply 41

Miss Anonymous

9

Original post by Bezzler

I didn't do philosophy A level; in fact, most of the people doing philosophy I know didn't. Obviously it depends on the board, but most philosophy A level syllabuses seem a little superficial to me, and they don't tend to cover lots of important areas. You shouldn't feel any pressure to take it.

Philosophy interviews vary massively. However, they won't presume any knowledge. They'll expect you to have read some stuff because you're interested, but they won't expect anything specific. They look into how you think, so they might give you a logic problem and see how you work through it, or present an argument and ask you to analyse or criticise it, or ask your opinion on something - it really depends on the tutor. In my interview, we spent the first ten minutes discussing ethical dilemmas and how you approach them, and then the rest of the time we discussed epistemology, cause I'd written that I was interested in it on my PS.

Thank you. Ahh I won't mind it too much then :wink:

I love those kind of questions but I'm not that great at essay writing. I'll stick with science subjects.

Do you think it'd be good if I do an EPQ related to philosophy? It'd be a good way of showing that I'm interested in phil :smile:

(I know a-level grades are the most important but still :rolleyes:

)

Reply 42

obstupefacere

13

Original post by Miss Anonymous

Thank you. Ahh I won't mind it too much then :wink:

I love those kind of questions but I'm not that great at essay writing. I'll stick with science subjects.

Do you think it'd be good if I do an EPQ related to philosophy? It'd be a good way of showing that I'm interested in phil :smile:

(I know a-level grades are the most important but still :rolleyes:

)

You don't need to do an EPQ. Just demonstrate you are interested in the subject in your Personal Statement. I got an unconditional for BA philosophy without any A-Levels at all, just on the basis of my extra-curricular reading.

Although I did show off a bit, I translated the ending to my personal statement from a 14c Latin manuscript :colondollar:

.

Good A-Levels and extra-curricular reading should defiantly be enough.

Reply 43

dbmag9

15

Original post by Miss Anonymous

I just found out about this course and it looks awesome :teeth:

I'll definitely consider this course.

I'm starting my a-levels in September and I was wondering if it'd be beneficial to take philosophy?
It is available at my school but the timetable block doesn't fit with the rest of my subjects :/
I'm doing maths, further maths and physics for sure (my top3 choices)

What are philosophy interviews like?

As others have said, you don't need to do philosophy at sixth form to apply for it at uni - they're definitely more interested in seeing that you can reason clearly. It's still obviously worthwhile to read around the subject as much as possible, if only because a lot of people have an idea of what philosophy is that's quite limited. That said, doing a philosophy A-level could be a good way to keep up your essay-writing ability, since philosophy is a very essay-heavy subject.

As for interviews, mine included extended logic puzzles (I strongly recommend teaching yourself basic formal logic; it's easy but really strengthens your reasoning), picking holes in an argument and discussing the definition of knowledge, as well as talking a bit about things I'd mentioned in a personal statement.

Reply 44

Miss Anonymous

9

Original post by obstupefacere

You don't need to do an EPQ. Just demonstrate you are interested in the subject in your Personal Statement. I got an unconditional for BA philosophy without any A-Levels at all, just on the basis of my extra-curricular reading.

Although I did show off a bit, I translated the ending to my personal statement from a 14c Latin manuscript :colondollar:

.

Good A-Levels and extra-curricular reading should defiantly be enough.

Thanks

I've always wondered this but what extra curricular (other than reading) activities are there for maths (or philosophy?) :smile:

The only ones I've done are maths challenges/olympiads. Done. :sigh:

I'll probably read some books more... but anything else?

Original post by dbmag9

As others have said, you don't need to do philosophy at sixth form to apply for it at uni - they're definitely more interested in seeing that you can reason clearly. It's still obviously worthwhile to read around the subject as much as possible, if only because a lot of people have an idea of what philosophy is that's quite limited. That said, doing a philosophy A-level could be a good way to keep up your essay-writing ability, since philosophy is a very essay-heavy subject.

As for interviews, mine included extended logic puzzles (I strongly recommend teaching yourself basic formal logic; it's easy but really strengthens your reasoning), picking holes in an argument and discussing the definition of knowledge, as well as talking a bit about things I'd mentioned in a personal statement.

Thank you

Reply 45

dbmag9

15

Original post by Miss Anonymous

Thanks

I've always wondered this but what extra curricular (other than reading) activities are there for maths (or philosophy?) :smile:

The only ones I've done are maths challenges/olympiads. Done. :sigh:

I'll probably read some books more... but anything else?

Basically reading for maths - general stuff, but if you can looking properly into some area not covered on your course can be very impressive. Just be prepared to be asked about it at interview. As for philosophy, read lots of varied material (there's a recommended reading list on the wiki here), perhaps consider entering an essay competition too. If your school has a philosophy society present a talk to them on some area of philosophy. Things like debating can also show that you can think clearly.

Reply 46

Miss Anonymous

9

Original post by dbmag9

Basically reading for maths - general stuff, but if you can looking properly into some area not covered on your course can be very impressive. Just be prepared to be asked about it at interview. As for philosophy, read lots of varied material (there's a recommended reading list on the wiki here), perhaps consider entering an essay competition too. If your school has a philosophy society present a talk to them on some area of philosophy. Things like debating can also show that you can think clearly.

Great advice :smile:

Thank you so much

Reply 47

mikeandikes

Hey, could anyone describe the content/course structure? I feel like the course outline on the admissions website is kind of vague, just saying the first year includes "algebra" and "analysis." Does that mean linear algebra and real analysis? How advanced does the math get? For example, I kind of see the first "layer" or foundation of learning university-level mathematics going in this order:
Calculus 1
Calculus 2
Calculus 3 (multivariable)
Differential Equations
Linear Algebra
and then everything beyond that, like Real Analysis and Trigonometry. How far does the M & P course expect students to go?

Also, does the course attract any primarily humanities-driven people or people who don't necessarily have natural math minds, in addition to the maths/science-based people? I really love math and get good scores in it, but only through psychotic practice and revision. It does NOT come naturally to me. Would I be out of place in a course like this?

I'm really interested in the joint course as a whole, but I'm a little worried about the pure math part!

Reply 48

Derek_the_Sheep

8

Original post by mikeandikes

(1)Hey, could anyone describe the content/course structure?.....

(2) Also, does the course attract any primarily humanities-driven people or people who don't necessarily have natural math minds, in addition to the maths/science-based people? I really love math ..[but] . It does NOT come naturally to me. Would I be out of place in a course like this?

(3) I'm really interested in the joint course as a whole, but I'm a little worried about the pure math part!

(1) There is a lot of detail as to what is in the courses here. I mean, really a lot: right down to the lecture handouts for all the courses.

(2) According to this (which you've already looked at);

[INDENT]"The mathematics units in this joint course are all from the single-subject Mathematics course. Accordingly the standard in mathematics for admission to the joint course is the same as for admission to the single-subject Mathematics course.

The compulsory core mathematics for the joint course consists of the pure (as opposed to applied) mathematics from the compulsory core for the single-subject Mathematics course. The philosophy units for the Mathematics and Philosophy course are mostly shared with the other joint courses with Philosophy.

All parts of the course in the first year are compulsory. In the second and third years some units are compulsory, consisting of core mathematics and philosophy and bridge papers on philosophy of mathematics and on foundations (logic and set theory), but you also choose options."[/INDENT]

So you need to be a mathematician of the same standard as single-subject mathmos to stand a chance of an offer.

(3) If maths doesn't come easy for you, even if you get an place, it will be tough going!

:sheep:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 49

musicofmaths

I don't want to sound too forward-thinking, but I was wondering how much maths you miss out on onthis course course compared to a straight maths. For example, could you go on to do research in maths or a masters purely in maths after this. Say even cambridge part iii?

Reply 50

dbmag9

15

Original post by musicofmaths

I don't want to sound too forward-thinking, but I was wondering how much maths you miss out on onthis course course compared to a straight maths. For example, could you go on to do research in maths or a masters purely in maths after this. Say even cambridge part iii?

The course is expressly designed to allow students to go on to graduate study in either maths or philosophy; what would be limited would be the areas you can go into; after one term I haven't done the probability, dynamics and some of the calculus that the straight mathmos have done, and that continues for the whole course. But for someone interested in a very pure field that wouldn't be a problem.

Also, since it's generally frowned upon to ask the same thing three times over:

Original post by musicofmaths

I have already tried this thread, but maybe I'll get more responses here? I am keen to study maths at uni. The maths and philosophy course offered at oxford looks really interesting, as I have always had a slightly literary side. I was jut wondering how much maths you miss out on doing this option (I'm really a mathematician at heart), and if it was possible to go on in the field of maths after a course like this. For example, though I don't want to get ahead of myself, is it possible to get into part iii of maths at cambridge having done maths and philosophy at oxford. If I come to cambridge part iii from oxford, what sort of funding can I get (i.e would it help that I'm a french national?). Quite a few questions, sorry. Thanks in advance for the help.

If you really want to study maths, be aware that the maths and philosophy course still has a substantial philosophy component; if you just want to satisfy an itch to occasionally write something you'd be better off writing for a student paper or something. Make sure you know what philosophy involves before applying, please. No idea about funding though, sorry.

Original post by musicofmaths

I know that maths at cambridge is generally more renowned so if I did straight maths I would like to go for cambridge, however the maths and philosophy course offered at oxford looks really interesting, as I have always had a slightly literary side. I was jut wondering how much maths you miss out on doing this option (I'm really a mathematician at heart) and if it was possible to get into part iii of maths at cambridge having done maths and philosophy at oxford. If I come to cambridge part iii from oxford, what sort of funding can I get (i.e would it help that I'm a french national?). Quite a few questions, sorry. Thanks in advance for the help :smile:

Don't pick a university on how renowned it is; Oxford and Cambridge (and many others) are great at maths, but the courses are different, as are the cities and universities. Pick the course you want to study, not just the more famous name.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 51

musicofmaths

Thank you so much! Sorry about posting 3 times, I wasn't sure where I'd get a reply :smile:

. Philosophy does actually genuinely interest me, I just didn't want to be disadvantaged on the maths side, but I prefer pure at the moment anyway, so it looks good :smile:

. I totally agree about picking the course that suits me, I will start visiting places and getting a feel for where I'd like to go, I was just getting an idea as to what my options are.

Reply 52

Dalek1099

21

I'm interested in this course because I think it will combine Maths and Humanities.Should I take English Lit because I struggle with it?or will Maths,Further Maths,Geography and Religious Studies be al-right.What jobs can you get from Maths and Philosophy.

Reply 53

tooambitious

16

Original post by Dalek1099

I'm interested in this course because I think it will combine Maths and Humanities.Should I take English Lit because I struggle with it?or will Maths,Further Maths,Geography and Religious Studies be al-right.What jobs can you get from Maths and Philosophy.

dont take eng lit if yoou struggle, the ones you mentiones are actually very versatlie subjects :smile:

job wise - huge load of options

Reply 54

XxelliexX

14

I got an offer from cambridge for philosophy, and I do philosophy, english, maths, classics, biology and latin (IB)...
I'm not sure about the A Level syllabus, but at least in IB we do a set text (I'm doing Plato), and so Philosophy definitely helps with 'development of skills of careful reading of, and critical engagement with, texts'... In my experience, I think that philosophy helped me get my offer more than any of my other subjects, including english and maths... for a variety of reasons:

1) It gave me the confidence to talk about topics that came up in my interviews. I don't think any prior knowledge was necessarily required, but the fact that I had already talked about some of the things in class definitely helped me think of things to say more quickly, which is always good in high pressured situations like that
2) It gave me some knowledge of how to structure the essay I had to write as part of my exam
3) More stuff to write on my personal statement

I think you should just do the subject that you think you'd personally prefer, especially seeing as how it explicitly states that philosophy doesn't bring any inherent advantage to getting an offer, but neither would it bring any disadvantages.

Also... have you perhaps thought of taking classics? You study a lot of texts, which might help the 'critical engagement with texts' skill, and it kind of encompasses a bit of philosophy and english :smile:

(at least, the course I take does anyway...) If your school offers it, I think you should think about it :smile:

Reply 55

Dalek1099

21

Original post by tooambitious

dont take eng lit if yoou struggle, the ones you mentiones are actually very versatlie subjects :smile:

job wise - huge load of options

The problem is that I want a clear career path and I want to Study Maths and Philosophy at University.

Reply 56

tooambitious

16

Original post by Dalek1099

The problem is that I want a clear career path and I want to Study Maths and Philosophy at University.

ok, you could go into banking, advertising, management consultancy, maths teacher, accoutant, actuary...

Reply 57

Dalek1099

21

Original post by tooambitious

ok, you could go into banking, advertising, management consultancy, maths teacher, accoutant, actuary...

None of them seem to cover the Philosophy.I want to do something math related that isn't necessarily related to business or being a maths teacher.

Reply 58

Billy Pilgrim

10

Hey, I was wondering if any current students could tell me what they think of the course - specifically, does cutting out the 'applied' stuff limit you as a mathematician, or do you feel that a solid grounding in pure maths is enough? I love philosophy, but I'd rather keep my options open as much as possible in terms of graduate studies etc, and it seems like philosophy is something you can go into at a later stage whereas maths is not.

Muchas Gracias

Reply 59

LtCommanderData

13

I'm not doing maths & philosophy but I am doing maths & CS, and I think the maths portions are pretty similar (so I know what it's like not to do the applied that gets cut out).

To be honest, I'm perfectly happy doing it this way. I'm generally more interested in the pure stuff than applied, and while I am quite interested in probability and miss that stuff a bit, I enjoy the CS a lot and I'm glad I don't have to do as many differential equations and stuff.

It's also nice doing a joint degree as you get a chance to have a break from maths and do a problem sheet of something else for a bit.

The stuff you don't do is a lot of calculus, a bit of stats, dynamics, fourier series... if any of that is particularly appealing to you, go for straight maths. I have a friend who was on my course but switched to maths & stats last term because she wanted to do more calculus and statistics. But if you're not bothered about that stuff, go for the joint degree (and depending on your college you may have an opportunity to switch in the first year anyway if it's the wrong decision). Do consider what you're really interested in, though, as I know people here who really don't like the pure stuff and are all about applied, so if you turn out to be one of them you'd regret doing a joint degree. Or you might look at the work your pure maths friends are doing and think "thank frig I listened to LtCD and went for the joint degree!"

Philosophy is something you can pick up later, but will you really pick it up later at the level you'll have to opportunity to study it at at university? Will you care enough? And yeah, maths is harder to pick up later - but if you're on the joint degree and end up doing a PhD in maths or something, you'll easily be able to pick up the undergraduate level calculus that is missing from your repertoire as your basis in the really important stuff will be strong.

I'm sure some maths & phil people can come in and be a bit more specifically helpful, but that's my perspective as a joint maths person.

Oxford Maths and Philosophy Students and Applicants

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