Have your say: UCAS proposed Post Results Uni Applications for 2016!
This poll is closed
Do you think applying to university after results is a good idea?
Yes, it's a fantastic idea 24%
Yes, overall a good idea but with some reservations 51%
No, it's a bad idea 17%
Not sure/Don't know8%
Total votes: 254
UCAS is currently reviewing the whole university applications process and has put forward a proposal for a post results application system from 2016 which would mean you only apply to university after you have got your grades. This has been published in a 64 page report, but we've summarised the key proposals and findings below!
There is currently an ongoing consultation period for stakeholders and interested parties in the admissions process to register their views before 20th January 2012. We want to ensure that the views of TSR members are heard in this review process so have prepared a survey to find out what you think. We'll then collate everyone's opinions next week and pass these on to the UCAS committee.
Click here to take the survey!
This survey will only be open for one week. Opinions will be collected until Monday 16th January.
You can also discuss and comment on the proposals in this thread and vote on the poll.
There is currently an ongoing consultation period for stakeholders and interested parties in the admissions process to register their views before 20th January 2012. We want to ensure that the views of TSR members are heard in this review process so have prepared a survey to find out what you think. We'll then collate everyone's opinions next week and pass these on to the UCAS committee.
Click here to take the survey!
This survey will only be open for one week. Opinions will be collected until Monday 16th January.
You can also discuss and comment on the proposals in this thread and vote on the poll.
Review of the current university application process
A review of the current UCAS application process concluded that the system is good at providing for different timetables for applications to follow specialist courses such as medicine or veterinary medicine, as well as to Oxford and Cambridge. It is also able to handle applications from those with non-traditional qualifications and has been agile in dealing with new qualifications such as the Diploma or the Welsh Baccalaureate.
However, it also indicated that there are aspects that could be improved and many applicants are asked to make choices about courses and Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) before they are ready. The combined effect of predicted grades, insurance choices and Clearing have led to a system that is complex, is thought to lack transparency for many applicants and is inefficient and cumbersome for HEIs. Only the best informed applicants and advisers are able to optimise UCAS applications and there is an undesirable divide between those applicants who receive effective advice and those who do not.
Key findings:
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The admissions process means that many applicants need to make decisions about higher education at least six months before they receive their results.
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The UCAS admissions process is complex and many applicants find it hard to understand.
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Well-supported applicants and knowledgeable advisers can optimise the outcomes of UCAS applications.
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Operational practice and admissions strategies employed by HEIs are varied and not transparent to applicants. This is particularly true in respect of predicted grades.
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The insurance choice system is not working as a backstop for applicants and creates significant workload and operational problems for HEIs. It needs to be replaced by something which better supports its purpose.
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The Clearing system is inefficient, stressful and confusing for applicants.
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There are many aspects of the admissions process which could be optimised to provide efficiencies for HEIs and benefits for applicants.
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UCAS is a ‘one-size-fits-all’ system which does not optimise the process for non-traditional applicants such as international, part-time, and mature applicants; it is not easily configurable for different start dates and different intensities of study.
Proposals for a post results application process
As a result of the evidence from their review, UCAS now believes that there could be significant advantages in moving the process for admission to full-time undergraduate courses in the UK to one in which applications are made after receipt of qualification results. This would be a national initiative and despite the complexities of different examination systems and school and college term dates, any changes to the process must meet the needs of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
A post results system would not be introduced before 2016 year of entry, because applicants would need to know the process and timetable two years before implementation. Schools, colleges, and awarding bodies would also need time to prepare for the changes in the examination timetable. However, UCAS recommends that enhancements to the current system are introduced for 2014 year of entry including introducing the concept of three managed application windows, Apply 1, Apply 2 and Apply 3.
It is not possible to implement a post results system without a significant change to the current timetable of admissions. A level examinations would have to start 15 days earlier than at present, though less change would be needed to other examinations, for instance Scottish Highers or the International Baccalaureate (IB). Results would need to be available by early July and before the end of term for most schools, to allow time to fine tune applications based on known grades. The model proposes a university start date of early October for first year students.
The application process would allow two university choices initially, with further choices available in a later application window for those unsuccessful in the first round. The application phase would be structured round three distinct application windows depending on the individual circumstances of the applicant. We recommend these are known as Apply 1, Apply 2 and Apply 3. Each window would have defined open and close dates but common to each is the requirement that applications are submitted only once the applicant has met the entry requirements for the course for which they wish to apply.
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Apply 1 would be open throughout the cycle for applicants who already have their results or appropriate entry qualifications at the start of the admissions cycle.
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Apply 2 would be the main part of the cycle and would meet the needs of the majority of applicants who take examinations in the year of entry to higher education. It would open at the end of June with an equal consideration deadline of the third week in July. HEIs would communicate decisions by the third week in September.
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Apply 3 would open from the end of July and close in early October for those not holding offers from Apply 2 or those applying after Apply 2 has closed. Applicants would apply to one course at a time with decisions by universities deferred until after the application window opens.
The proposed system would not rely on results alone. The UK HE admissions system has always been characterised by its holistic approach and admissions decisions will continue to be based upon an assessment of latent talent and potential as well as prior achievement.
The full report can be downloaded from the UCAS Admissions Process Review website which also includes a link to the response form if you wish to submit an individual response. The deadline for responses is Friday 20th January 2012
(edited 12 years ago)
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I'm pretty torn. On the one hand, it makes a lot of sense to have applicants apply after results as it will make the system so much more efficient. But the problem that comes to mind is time. Currently, students begin applying in about September. In some cases, applicants will not receive a reply until about April. This, including September and April means that up to (and sometimes more) 8 months can go by before a university decides. Universities currently begin their semesters in the month of September, which means that even with the moving back of exams, there would still only be a month for students to apply and receive a response from a uni. Unless I've missed something, this just seems impossible.
I think its much more sensible - but the ridiculousness that is 'predicted grades' has allowed me to look a bit better than I actually am - so although its more sensible, I'm glad I got to use our current system 
Original post by HarveyCanis
Original post by HarveyCanis
I'm pretty torn. On the one hand, it makes a lot of sense to have applicants apply after results as it will make the system so much more efficient. But the problem that comes to mind is time. Currently, students begin applying in about September. In some cases, applicants will not receive a reply until about April. This, including September and April means that up to (and sometimes more) 8 months can go by before a university decides. Universities currently begin their semesters in the month of September, which means that even with the moving back of exams, there would still only be a month for students to apply and receive a response from a uni. Unless I've missed something, this just seems impossible.
Under the new system, my understanding is that the majority of applicants would submit an application in early July, the universities would make decisions by the middle of September and university would start some time in October. Although even then you are correct in saying that the timescale would be compressed compared to now.
It makes more sense, but at the same time I feel it might weaken the resolve of applicants.
By this, I mean that they won't have a set of grades to live up to in exams and coursework, prior to them taking place.
You might argue that predicted grades might be lower than the person can achieve which means they may not get into the university they want, therefore not getting a set of top-end grades to work towards. However, I find that predicted grades are usually representative of the work and standard the applicant has already shown. So, if they feel their predicted grades are too low, it's usually their own fault for not trying hard enough at AS.
In short, without an offer to work towards, students may be less motivated, and might not have a clear idea of the grades they need to achieve to make their application work.
By this, I mean that they won't have a set of grades to live up to in exams and coursework, prior to them taking place.
You might argue that predicted grades might be lower than the person can achieve which means they may not get into the university they want, therefore not getting a set of top-end grades to work towards. However, I find that predicted grades are usually representative of the work and standard the applicant has already shown. So, if they feel their predicted grades are too low, it's usually their own fault for not trying hard enough at AS.
In short, without an offer to work towards, students may be less motivated, and might not have a clear idea of the grades they need to achieve to make their application work.
(edited 12 years ago)
Still not sure how Unis will decide what applicants to take?
Normally they would use their predicated grades and reply accordingly. If they get an offer and they achieve that, it will be unconditonal and if they don't, its unsuccessful. Unis would normally have a quota of the no. of offers they can make, so I guess it could be similar to that.. but less, which could be the problem for some.
On the other hand, Unis could be expecting more because the applicants already know what grades they have and thus could apply accordingly. This could mean that they want to stand out and do extra curricular activities beforehand, though maybe it can't be possible for some to do this.
Also Unis will have to change their term dates, which could mean that the academic year would be later. Colleges/awarding bodies need to change their exam timetable and make the College rush doing the work.
I can't really see how this idea would work tbh.
Normally they would use their predicated grades and reply accordingly. If they get an offer and they achieve that, it will be unconditonal and if they don't, its unsuccessful. Unis would normally have a quota of the no. of offers they can make, so I guess it could be similar to that.. but less, which could be the problem for some.
On the other hand, Unis could be expecting more because the applicants already know what grades they have and thus could apply accordingly. This could mean that they want to stand out and do extra curricular activities beforehand, though maybe it can't be possible for some to do this.
Also Unis will have to change their term dates, which could mean that the academic year would be later. Colleges/awarding bodies need to change their exam timetable and make the College rush doing the work.
I can't really see how this idea would work tbh.
Original post by Vulpes
Voted 
Still not sure about how courses which require interviews and extra admission tests will work under the proposed system tho
Still not sure about how courses which require interviews and extra admission tests will work under the proposed system tho
This was my thought. Last year, people applied for medicine in october, and for Bristol at least, the whole thing wasn't finished until May. I've no idea how they are going to manage to compress everything enough... And what about international applicants? For courses with interviews, they are often given more than a month's notice, and I just don't know how they'd be able to do that this way.
Overall, a good idea - it will definitely simplify things (no more extra or clearing or anything) but I don't fully understand how it would work.
I think it's a good idea but I worry about how interviews will be staged. I know I had three interviews if they were all during the summer holidays it would be significantly more difficult for this to work. Also if results aren't known until the 3rd week of July there will be a large pressure on any pupils wanting to ask the advice of teachers. I suppose that statements and decisions about where you want to apply will take place a long time before your results. The system sounds OK but I don't know how the fact that no one is at school when doing his or her application will affect the outcome.
Original post by HarveyCanis
I'm pretty torn. On the one hand, it makes a lot of sense to have applicants apply after results as it will make the system so much more efficient. But the problem that comes to mind is time. Currently, students begin applying in about September. In some cases, applicants will not receive a reply until about April. This, including September and April means that up to (and sometimes more) 8 months can go by before a university decides. Universities currently begin their semesters in the month of September, which means that even with the moving back of exams, there would still only be a month for students to apply and receive a response from a uni. Unless I've missed something, this just seems impossible.
My uni began in early-mid october and I think there was ample time for everything.
Did the survey. Same as rachiesy!
In the poll I said 'Yes but with some reservations'
I really should have done the survey after more thinking. I'm really not sure, though I like the idea of changing it... but I feel like my own personal UCAS experience skews me a lot because I feel like my predicted grades had a lot to do with my getting offers, though admittedly along with mitigating circumstances (my predicted grades were never realised). The thing is, if someone doesn't get the grades they were hoping for, they won't want to waste one of their two choices on a course that has a higher offer, though of course if it was going to be a waste anyway i.e. were going to get a rejection then that's a good thing, BUT what if they would've been taken on....... in general it's hard to tell the leniency of the admissions people on grades... though again I'm thinking through my own kind of UCAS scenario where my actual grades didn't really get me anywhere, well they showed I wasn't hopeless, but it was my personal statement, reference and predicted grades that got me through. I don't know how many other people had this/will have this.
In the poll I said 'Yes but with some reservations'
I really should have done the survey after more thinking. I'm really not sure, though I like the idea of changing it... but I feel like my own personal UCAS experience skews me a lot because I feel like my predicted grades had a lot to do with my getting offers, though admittedly along with mitigating circumstances (my predicted grades were never realised). The thing is, if someone doesn't get the grades they were hoping for, they won't want to waste one of their two choices on a course that has a higher offer, though of course if it was going to be a waste anyway i.e. were going to get a rejection then that's a good thing, BUT what if they would've been taken on....... in general it's hard to tell the leniency of the admissions people on grades... though again I'm thinking through my own kind of UCAS scenario where my actual grades didn't really get me anywhere, well they showed I wasn't hopeless, but it was my personal statement, reference and predicted grades that got me through. I don't know how many other people had this/will have this.
Original post by F1 fanatic
Under the new system, my understanding is that the majority of applicants would submit an application in early July, the universities would make decisions by the middle of September and university would start some time in October. Although even then you are correct in saying that the timescale would be compressed compared to now.
Indeed. That's not as bad as I imagined then but it's still not a lot of time. I applied in January and only received a reply in April, which would not fit into the new system. Of course, I guess the universities could just hire more for admissions.
Original post by Ch1pp0
My uni began in early-mid october and I think there was ample time for everything.
Well that's good for you. But for a lot of people the time won't be ample.
Original post by Minotauro
Why don't they just make people apply with what they actually got in their AS, rather than these over inflated predictions we see flying around...
For many AS is a wake up call as you can often coast through GCSEs but can't with AS. I wouldn't have got in for physics if I had my AS grades. I got ABBB at AS and come out of A2 with AAA, exactly what I was predicted. If predictions are done honestly then I don't see much problem with the current system but this new system could be interesting.
I do dislike predicted grades but I just don't see how it would work - I don't think there would be enough time for courses to start in late October and I don't really think the terms shifting to January is such a good idea really because it would be too different from schools.. unless they changed too? Would also mean that one year would have a 6 month summer holiday, although they would be applying to uni in the first half of it so I guess that wouldn't be so terrible.
Applying with AS grades would make things a lot easier in the time frame but I'm sure students would still receive conditional offers, so this wouldn't really be different from now except that if you got bad AS grades you might not be given a chance to improve and get an offer.
Perhaps if you applied with grades you could still complete all interviews/entrance exams beforehand. I know this would mean a lot of guesswork as to which uni you would want to go to but I just don't see how it would work if these had to happen in the summer too. Maybe you could apply to only one uni at a time and they would be given a timeframe in which to consider you and then you would only apply to another uni if you were unsuccessful with the first (a bit like applying for PGCEs perhaps?). Then unis would know exactly how many students wanted to go to their uni and could make offers accordingly.
Applying with AS grades would make things a lot easier in the time frame but I'm sure students would still receive conditional offers, so this wouldn't really be different from now except that if you got bad AS grades you might not be given a chance to improve and get an offer.
Perhaps if you applied with grades you could still complete all interviews/entrance exams beforehand. I know this would mean a lot of guesswork as to which uni you would want to go to but I just don't see how it would work if these had to happen in the summer too. Maybe you could apply to only one uni at a time and they would be given a timeframe in which to consider you and then you would only apply to another uni if you were unsuccessful with the first (a bit like applying for PGCEs perhaps?). Then unis would know exactly how many students wanted to go to their uni and could make offers accordingly.
Original post by k9markiii
For many AS is a wake up call as you can often coast through GCSEs but can't with AS. I wouldn't have got in for physics if I had my AS grades. I got ABBB at AS and come out of A2 with AAA, exactly what I was predicted. If predictions are done honestly then I don't see much problem with the current system but this new system could be interesting.
'if predictions are done honestly', but how do you 'honestly' predict that someone will do better than they did last year? I dunno, I just think that if everyone knew that AS's would decide where you went to uni, they would work harder - and surely thats not a bad thing? Its hard for me to justify predicted grades - I don't see how a teacher can predict a grade based on what the student got the year before, and how hard the teacher thinks they worked. And the fact tht people can ask for a predicted grade? Its not exactly a predicted grade if you are asking the teacher to make it higher.
Original post by k9markiii
For many AS is a wake up call as you can often coast through GCSEs but can't with AS. I wouldn't have got in for physics if I had my AS grades. I got ABBB at AS and come out of A2 with AAA, exactly what I was predicted. If predictions are done honestly then I don't see much problem with the current system but this new system could be interesting.
I see what you are saying, but if you look at the figures, you are in the minority, most of students did not reach their predictions last year, I think the system is flawed because prediction system varies a lot between colleges, for example my college will not predict you higher then what you got unless there was an extenuating circumstance they were aware of, I was predicted AAAB because that's what I got, because I worked my arse off! But I come on to this site and see people with D's get the same predictions as me, it's just so disheartening to see...
MMMMM. From a Scottish perspective.....
My sons applied through UCAS 2011 and 2012 entry, 3rd son will apply for 2015 entry.
Looking at the apply1, apply2 description, I'm wondering how that would work for Scottish applicants applying to a mixture of Scottish and English Universities (as my sons did). For Scottish Unis, they had/have the grades for Unconditional offers (Scottish Highers achieved in 5th year), but for English unis ()Oxbridge), needed Advanced Highers.
SO UNDER THE this halfway house scheme, you can only apply to 2 unis at a time (?), and if you want to apply as a Scottish student to Oxbridge, you use Apply 2, as you have not yet sat the exams, But you can't use apply1 to apply to the Scottish Unis (for which you already have the exam grades) because if you did, and you got an offer you would have to take that offer, meaning you would not then be able to use Apply2 to apply to Oxbridge (or other English Unis)???? I assume you can't "hold" an offer from apply 1, then apply to other Unis through Apply2.
Seeing what my son went through last year, in terms of extra exams (UKCAT/BMAT), and interviews (4 interviews, the Oxbridge one lasting a couple of days + a day travelling in each direction!), I wonder how they could compress the process down to a month or so.
I think NI students would have the same problem?
My sons applied through UCAS 2011 and 2012 entry, 3rd son will apply for 2015 entry.
Looking at the apply1, apply2 description, I'm wondering how that would work for Scottish applicants applying to a mixture of Scottish and English Universities (as my sons did). For Scottish Unis, they had/have the grades for Unconditional offers (Scottish Highers achieved in 5th year), but for English unis ()Oxbridge), needed Advanced Highers.
SO UNDER THE this halfway house scheme, you can only apply to 2 unis at a time (?), and if you want to apply as a Scottish student to Oxbridge, you use Apply 2, as you have not yet sat the exams, But you can't use apply1 to apply to the Scottish Unis (for which you already have the exam grades) because if you did, and you got an offer you would have to take that offer, meaning you would not then be able to use Apply2 to apply to Oxbridge (or other English Unis)???? I assume you can't "hold" an offer from apply 1, then apply to other Unis through Apply2.
Seeing what my son went through last year, in terms of extra exams (UKCAT/BMAT), and interviews (4 interviews, the Oxbridge one lasting a couple of days + a day travelling in each direction!), I wonder how they could compress the process down to a month or so.
I think NI students would have the same problem?
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