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"A red line has been crossed" - Is Syria next??!!

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Original post by Aj12
You'd have to be a tad slow to think Syria does not have chemical weapons, mainly since they said so. Robert Fisk's opinion means jack all here, the Syrian government aren't about to take him into top secret facilities and say here look chemical weapons.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-07-23/Syria-violence-rebels/56425402/1


And North Korea can strike the US mainland right? :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that Syria does not retain deadly chemical weapons - but take into account that a State may try to make itself look bigger and stronger by making unsubstantiated claims. Again, I am not saying that Syria does not have chemical weapons - they might well indeed have such, yes.
Reply 21
Original post by HumanSupremacist
And North Korea can strike the US mainland right? :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that Syria does not retain deadly chemical weapons - but take into account that a State may try to make itself look bigger and stronger by making unsubstantiated claims. Again, I am not saying that Syria does not have chemical weapons - they might well indeed have such, yes.


Between their statements and the other evidence for it I think it's pretty likely.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/syria-tested-chemical-weapons-in-desert-in-august-eyewitnesses-say-a-856206.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/syria/index.html
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/op-eds/fearful-of-nuclear-iran-the-real-wmd-nightmare-syria
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/13108/sec_id/13108
Original post by Jordan-James
I know for a fact the Syrian army are no pushover, plus they have the backing of Russia, China and Iran.

The US should keep their nose out of it by all means.


They may not necessarily be push overs compared to the libyan or in some retrospects the iraqi army, but they still don't stand a chance against a major western power and certainly not against the US.



Personally I hope war is not the answer and I hope this situation resolves itself both soon and with no more blood shed, but unfortunately that wont happen until russia stops backing the assad regime.
The US basically said that they have a good indication, but since there is no proof, and the USA is already involved in another country, I doubt that any intervention would go as far as US Army boots on the ground, unless Assad decided to blatantly use Chemical weapons on a large scale.
Reply 24
It's a serious case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Simply idly standing by will mean that they receive quite a bit of condemnation for "not doing anything" or not enough. Of course, if they enter, it will only mean more deaths, and the opposition has some quite major radical Muslim elements to it.
Original post by dgeorge
It's a serious case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Simply idly standing by will mean that they receive quite a bit of condemnation for "not doing anything" or not enough. Of course, if they enter, it will only mean more deaths, and the opposition has some quite major radical Muslim elements to it.


The US could simply say "We don't want to go to war", nothing wrong in that. Plus, from a personal view (me wanting to be a combat officer), I'd rather fight insurgents than a conventional military force. However, on that note, fighting such a force would give me experience.
Reply 26
It is obvious they will keep interviening countries like Syria for example, exploit their natural commodities until Obama finds a way to legislate his new 'budget'. It's just all covered by the facade of 'helping' the less developed
Reply 27
There needs authorisation from the UNSC for military action. I hope the evidence is provided
Reply 28
Very hard to say what will happen but given the Chinese and Russian reaction i suspect nothing.

On my part i am simply not willing to support the continued murder of 80,000 and counting from a tyrant and so will fully support any military action that they choose to take (no doubt we would join them although its possible that Turkey and Israel could take the lead on this one) however what i don't want to see is us sticking around getting suicide bombed.

Let NATO as a whole bomb the crap out of the Syrian army and capture Assad and then let Turkey and Israel (possibly the Arab Emirates as well) retrain the army and fight the insurgents from Iran.
Reply 29
Why should the Western world get involved in this, just leave them to it
As a side note, would the US/NATO step in if it was found that the chemical attack was performed by the rebels, and intervene on the side of Assad?


Edit: Something else that bugs me, is that nobody (news) seems to be touching on the possibility that the chemical weapons may have come from opposition forces. It seems there is hard evidence that they were used, but it is simply just assumed that it was the Syrian Government that released it.

Original post by Rakas21

On my part i am simply not willing to support the continued murder of 80,000 and counting from a tyrant and so will fully support any military action that they choose to take (no doubt we would join them although its possible that Turkey and Israel could take the lead on this one) however what i don't want to see is us sticking around getting suicide bombed.


Except he hasn't murdered 80,000 people.

The death toll of the entire war is close to 70,000. Nobody actually knows which side has killed more civilians.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 31
Original post by HumanSupremacist
It really doesn't seem like they're your bog-standard "freedom fighters" seeking democracy and freedom.... :curious:


most of whom aren't even Syrian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz5ZWEqu3pw
Reply 32
Original post by Farm_Ecology
As a side note, would the US/NATO step in if it was found that the chemical attack was performed by the rebels, and intervene on the side of Assad?


Edit: Something else that bugs me, is that nobody (news) seems to be touching on the possibility that the chemical weapons may have come from opposition forces. It seems there is hard evidence that they were used, but it is simply just assumed that it was the Syrian Government that released it.



Except he hasn't murdered 80,000 people.

The death toll of the entire war is close to 70,000. Nobody actually knows which side has killed more civilians.


Sarin gas was used. Where would the rebels get hold of something like that? Syria does not just leave them lying around and their bases where they keep this stuff are very heavily guarded. They know if those bases were in danger of being lost the US would likely step in to secure them.
Original post by Aj12
Sarin gas was used. Where would the rebels get hold of something like that? Syria does not just leave them lying around and their bases where they keep this stuff are very heavily guarded. They know if those bases were in danger of being lost the US would likely step in to secure them.


The problem is, the US don't for sure whether those bases exist or where they are.

Reportedly, Syria kept the weapons in several towns and bases, which have been taken by rebels. What's more, weapons have been sold to the rebels, some may be chemical.

The point is it's unknown, there isn't any evidence the rebels have chemical weapons, but neither is there any that the government has either, all that's known is that 'someone does', anything beyond that is speculation. And especially to jump into a war on the possibility that it might be the government is seriously flawed.
The main difference between Syria and the previous WMD scandal in Iraq is that there is zero benefit of the US going to war in Syria, and yet they are threatening to.

The US have no interest in Syria; invasion would be endlessly harmful to their image in the Middle East, something which Obama has been trying to resolve. They need more allies in that region, and storming Syria is a guaranteed way of causing a huge confrontation in the region.

If they're saying chemical weapons have been used, which Syria have confirmed they actually have unlike in Iraq, then they probably have been.
We shouldn't get involved. The opposition aren't freedom fighters who want democracy. They're mostly islamist insurgents and Al-Qaeda sympathisers. The Syrian people would probably be worse off under their control. Assad is a vile dictator, but do the people living there even want democracy? I can't imagine it being more stable than Iraq.

The Iraq war cost America trillions of dollars and they have very little to show for it. 70,000 lives is nothing. If they spent the Iraq war money on the third world countries they could have eradicated poverty for good and saved tens of millions of lives.

The method of killing seems fairly irrelevant to me. Whether it's chemical weapons, bullets, starvation, or dehydration. It's truly bizarre when so many people support humanitarian intervention, Libyan no fly zone, the French in Mali, Afghanistan, and yet scream and shout about Britain's 0.7% foreign aid budget. America only spends 0.22%. It's truly shameful. They all bristle when they see people being shot and reach for their guns, yet turn their backs on those dying every day.
I really hope someone puts a bullet into Assad's head.
Reply 37
I think international powers should stay well clear. I don't see how any intervention will help any of the civilians, which is the only reason I could see to justify it.

Both sides are awful by most accounts, you can't really trust the reports coming out, everyone is just saying they are killing civilians on both sides.

The only thing anyone can do is stay clear, help refugees and try get some medical aid/help for civilians to get the hell away.
Reply 38
I found it extremely hipporitical for Israel of all nations to complain about Syria's alleged chemical warfare.

When it was Israel that launched chemicals on women and children in Gaza:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/03/25/israel-white-phosphorus-use-evidence-war-crimes

Israel's repeated firing of white phosphorus shells over densely populated areas of Gaza during its recent military campaign was indiscriminate and is evidence of war crimes, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.
Reply 39
Original post by Am I Really Here
We shouldn't get involved. The opposition aren't freedom fighters who want democracy. They're mostly islamist insurgents and Al-Qaeda sympathisers. The Syrian people would probably be worse off under their control. Assad is a vile dictator, but do the people living there even want democracy? I can't imagine it being more stable than Iraq.

The Iraq war cost America trillions of dollars and they have very little to show for it. 70,000 lives is nothing. If they spent the Iraq war money on the third world countries they could have eradicated poverty for good and saved tens of millions of lives.

The method of killing seems fairly irrelevant to me. Whether it's chemical weapons, bullets, starvation, or dehydration. It's truly bizarre when so many people support humanitarian intervention, Libyan no fly zone, the French in Mali, Afghanistan, and yet scream and shout about Britain's 0.7% foreign aid budget. America only spends 0.22%. It's truly shameful. They all bristle when they see people being shot and reach for their guns, yet turn their backs on those dying every day.


Because people being shot are being shot by someone. It gives someone to hate, an easily identifiable person to point the finger at.

Starvation, dehydration and disease don't give you that. Sure, they are exasperated by corrupt government etc but that is murky and difficult to work out/point a finger.

People like to think they are doing something, and taking the kind of military action against a well established 'bad guy' is an easy thing to support.

The less 'headline' reduction in deaths due to starvation potentially in 5 years time is much harder to 'sell' to us.

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