Is there any hope for pharmacy students??

I’ve almost finished my second year of pharmacy and I’m really enjoying the course. I accepted the offer on a whim after not getting the grades I had been hoping for. I blame myself for not doing the adequate research before starting the course but I had talked to someone I know who’s a pharmacist and she had many positive things to say about it.
However, since starting the course I’ve found out that many people hate the job after qualifying and regret becoming a pharmacist. Is there any hope for me after I’ve completed the course? I’m hoping to get into hospital pharmacy after working in community for a bit. I just don’t want 5 years of hard work to be for nothing..

Reply 1

Oxedrin

5

You are way further down the course to change tack. If I was in your shoes, I would finish the degree, do the pre reg year and get on the register and start locuming. In the meantime, I would explore other career options such as medicine or any other ventures you could think of. Pharmacy is on a downhill trajectory and I feel students are not being properly informed of the reality of being a community pharmacist. Unfortunately, most pharmacy student aspire and compete very hard to get that elusive and dwindling opportunities in hospital pharmacy but chances are 8/10 end up in that abhorrent community pharmacy environment.

I have worked as a community pharmacist for many years and I can’t honestly list a single positive in this rotten profession.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 2

0895

10

Original post by Anon15041

I’ve almost finished my second year of pharmacy and I’m really enjoying the course. I accepted the offer on a whim after not getting the grades I had been hoping for. I blame myself for not doing the adequate research before starting the course but I had talked to someone I know who’s a pharmacist and she had many positive things to say about it.
However, since starting the course I’ve found out that many people hate the job after qualifying and regret becoming a pharmacist. Is there any hope for me after I’ve completed the course? I’m hoping to get into hospital pharmacy after working in community for a bit. I just don’t want 5 years of hard work to be for nothing..

(my emphasis in bold)
This is exactly the reason I post here, as a community pharmacist, who works with many pharmacy students every summer and pre-regs, and you hear this time and time again. Well done for being honest. There seems to be many universities that seem to offer medicine and dentistry students who miss a grade, a place in pharmacy as a consolation prize?? This is why I keep banging on about research, research, research, what a pharmacy degree will lead to. There's nothing really wrong with the degree itself. It's varied and interesting.

But, I would second what Oxedrin has stated, that is to finish the course, do the pre-reg and get on the register, then go from there.

I will be honest and admit that I too did something similar, wasn't able to do medicine, so my Mom suggested pharmacy. Based on the fact our local independent chemist lived on a big new posh housing estate, drove a v.v. nice big german car, sent his children to private school, etc!!!
So this being the late 80s, and being a teenager and not thinking much about my future, I just went and did pharmacy, when what I really wanted to be was a GP! Unfortunately back then there wasn't fast track medicine for graduates or studying in Europe, if it was possible, certainly wasn't a mainstream idea, and although medical schools would take recent graduates, it wasn't really advertised, and when Tony Blair brought in GEM about 20 yrs ago, I was in my early 30s and felt too old! I was lucky though. When I qualified there was a shortage of pharmacists and the wages were good, and it wasn't that stressful, but was kind of a bit dull. Now the stress is v high, wages poor, and too many graduates keeping wages down.
Sooo... anyway keep on going and qualify and then have another think.

Reply 3

Claremont4ever

11

It depends on what you want in a career. If it's money you want, you will make loads as an employed community pharmacist and/or a locum. If the clinical aspect of it appeals to you, hospital and GP pharmacy will ensure you practice clinically till you are sick of it.

The massive advantage of pharmacy over and beyond medicine is its versatility. There are several paths to diverge to that are well-paid and very satisfying.

Reply 4

Oxedrin

5

Original post by Claremont4ever

It depends on what you want in a career. If it's money you want, you will make loads as an employed community pharmacist and/or a locum. If the clinical aspect of it appeals to you, hospital and GP pharmacy will ensure you practice clinically till you are sick of it.

The massive advantage of pharmacy over and beyond medicine is its versatility. There are several paths to diverge to that are well-paid and very satisfying.

The average locum shift is £18-21 and realtime wages are falling faster than inflation.

As to versatility, medicine offers more than 60 specialties and sub-specialties. It’s one hell of a claim to say pharmacy offers more versatility than medicine.

The respondent paints a utopia in pharmacy which no longer exists. Do yourself a favour and use your critical mind to critique what you read. Don’t take my word on the state of community pharmacy but read independent pharmacy publications sush Chemist and Druggist or speak with your high street community pharmacists in confidence and enquire about their working conditions.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 5

Sarah H.

10

I agree with Oxedrin and 0895. Abandoning the degree course at this stage would be costly and unwise. I respect you for acknowledging your mistake at this early stage and seeking advice on remedial action. Too many do nothing and have a lifetime of regrets.

Completing the degree and qualifying as a pharmacist would at least give you a grounding to reassess your position and plan your future.

There is another option that you may consider. I had a summer pharmacy student a few years ago who like you appreciated early the grim reality of community pharmacy. He left uni. at the end of year 3 with a BSc equivalent. He was fast tracked onto a teaching degree and is now teaching chemistry at secondary school. Teaching may not be for you but with a respected science degree under your belt there are doors to be opened. I believe all universities give this option but don’t shout about for fear of losing your year 4 fees.

In regards community pharmacy (where 2/3 pharmacy graduates find employment). After a lifetime as a community pharmacist, it gives me no pleasure to state that is very much on an accelerating downward trajectory. To sum up community pharmacy today in a sentence: Poorly paid (& getting worse), often appalling and highly stressful working conditions, no career structure and a very uncertain future.

I am sure you will find a path to a happy and prosperous future, so don't worry. Best of luck to you!

Reply 6

TheChosenWon

9

I have not read the responses above so excuse me if I sound repetitive.

There is definitely hope for you. Like yourself, I enjoyed the Mpharm course, but slowly realized while studying that the job isn't as glamorous as my 6th form science teachers made it out to be and the remuneration is average at best (compared to other career options requiring the same level of intensity).

I graduated in my Mpharm degree in 2016, sat pre-reg for 1 year, and hated it as I knew I would. I had worked as a dispenser for the previous 3 years during university. After 1 year pre-reg I left pharmacy completely without looking back, and without qualifying as a Pharmacist! In hindsight, it would have been good to qualify as a Pharmacist back then as locuming while looking for a new career would have been a great flexible source of income and is always a decent 'back up' plan in case I didn't find a job for 6months+.
note: I landed a grad-scheme role within 2 months of intense applications!

I had thought long and hard about leaving Pharmacy way before graduating and so I had already done extensive research on what other career paths would suit me in a more corporate world, and so because of this, as soon as I left Pharmacy I started applying for graduate roles immediately as I already had a good idea of what job I wanted.

Fast forward to now and I'm in a completely unrelated career to Pharmacy with 3.5 years of solid experience. The salary is good, the intensity level is manageable and more importantly there is sustainable growth for my future career with regards to both money and responsibility.

Ironically enough, the saving grace for me securing a new role in corporate (IT incase you're wondering), was my Mpharm degree. Mpharm is a very tough STEM masters degree which is recognized by a lot of companies, especially if you make to sure paint a proper picture of all the skills it has taught you, both personal and analytical/academic.

What's even better is that I recently decided to give the pre-reg March 2021 exam a go this year and passed it with 95%, so I should be officially qualified and on the register soon. Although I don't enjoy the job overly much, I'm happy to do the odd locum shift on bank holidays etc just for a bit of extra cash if I feel like it. I dont mind doing some long weeks while I'm young, but I know its not sustainable life-long. I can handle community pharmacy in small doses haha! So now as someone in their 20s with dual-income careers, I should be able to purchase my first home in London with 0 help from family (not that I have that option anyway).

My point is that, even if you don't want to be a Pharmacist long-term, in my humble opinion for you at this point it is worth graduating and getting onto the register as it can provide you decent flexible income while searching for a new career and always provides a decent 'back up'. Even in the future just say for the example the worst happens and you get made redundant from your new career, you can cover the financial gaps while searching for a new job by locuming. It cant hurt to have the extra option there as a failsafe.

If you are adamant on changing careers, I would strongly suggest to start researching asap now what you want to do. Before you know it you will be graduating, and it gets much tougher to figure things out like this once you're in full-time employment.

If you want any advice/tips feel free to DM me.

Wish you all the best on your journey :smile:

Reply 7

ChillBear

11

If you're steadfast on pharmacy you're more in luck working in hospital or general practice and progressing through the NHS bands. Community pharmacy is an absolute dead end career with little progression, plenty work related stress and patients generally don't appreciate your role.

After 5 years in community I had one pay rise. Every year that passed by I was actually losing money due to inflation. Having swapped to general practice my locum rate has gone up substantially, but what made me more happy is that being employed by the NHS my pay automatically goes up annually separate to promotions. Two weeks ago it went up £0.25 ph, which really doesn't sound like a lot but it was automatic. I didn't have to have a meeting with my boss, no discussion, nothing, just an automatic raise to stave off inflation. It's peace of mind that you might not necessarily have working in community.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 8

frostbar12

1

Hi,I'm sorry but this is absolute insanity. I registered in 2004. I've worked in Australia,new Zealand and the UK. I've worked in every sector in almost every role. From PCN pharmacist to area manager round to ward pharmacist and community locum. This job is dying. It isn't a profession. It isn't a career. In community you are merely there to take the inevitable hit when the gphc get a complaint or a customer,they aren't patients-please lose that idea- doesn't like you. You are absolutely expendable. If you want to ask more about being a pharmacist from someone who is doing it please feel free to message me. I will give you an absolutely honest response. This job is not well paid. It is not satisfying. It is incredibly stressful and not worth the effort. Stay. The. Hell. Away. From. Pharmacy.

Reply 9

JS98

11

Original post by 0895

I would answer you, but I've been banned once for posting thread that are " not constructive" i.e. some people don't like the truth on average salaries.
I had another post removed yesterday due to a complaint from a cry-baby that simply stated the salaries of 36k for community and 42k for all pharmacy grads as an average. WHAT is not " constructive" about this???!!!!

I Despair of Generation Z

Community pharmacists are in ridiculous demand and locums are easily getting 25-40 quid an hour with some stores having "fully negotiable" rates. I agree that 36k is a standard graduate salary but it is that for a company without any negotiation whatsoever. Negotiate and that can be easily increased

Reply 10

JS98

11

Original post by TheChosenWon

What's even better is that I recently decided to give the pre-reg March 2021 exam a go this year and passed it with 95%, so I should be officially qualified and on the register soon.

I am interested as to how much prep went into this if pharmacy had been out of your life for 3.5 years because that is an amazing mark... congrats

Reply 11

Claremont4ever

11

Original post by JS98

Community pharmacists are in ridiculous demand and locums are easily getting 25-40 quid an hour with some stores having "fully negotiable" rates. I agree that 36k is a standard graduate salary but it is that for a company without any negotiation whatsoever. Negotiate and that can be easily increased

The person you are quoting is well known in this forum for posting unconstructive comments and ridiculously low pharmacist salaries.

I graduated in 2018. I got my first job as a relief on £42,000, this went up to £55,000 after 3 months when I became a branch manager. An increase in hours led my wages to go up to £65,000 just a year after graduation. My accountant just completed my self-assessment tax return recently which includes pay I get from locumming on the side,the tax return says I made a combined wage of just over £82,000 between April 2020 and April 2021. The current average hourly locum pay in certain areas in the North is £35/hour week day and £40/hour weekends as it's coming up to the busy summer holidays and winter flu period. Pharmacists are in exceptional demand over here.

The stories of low pay in pharmacy is mainly propagated by pharmaciists working in the south who are unwilling to relocate to where there are better wages.

Reply 12

ChillBear

11

Original post by Claremont4ever

The person you are quoting is well known in this forum for posting unconstructive comments and ridiculously low pharmacist salaries.

I graduated in 2018. I got my first job as a relief on £42,000, this went up to £55,000 after 3 months when I became a branch manager. An increase in hours led my wages to go up to £65,000 just a year after graduation. My accountant just completed my self-assessment tax return recently which includes pay I get from locumming on the side,the tax return says I made a combined wage of just over £82,000 between April 2020 and April 2021. The current average hourly locum pay in certain areas in the North is £35/hour week day and £40/hour weekends as it's coming up to the busy summer holidays and winter flu period. Pharmacists are in exceptional demand over here.

The stories of low pay in pharmacy is mainly propagated by pharmaciists working in the south who are unwilling to relocate to where there are better wages.

You're on the upper end of the spectrum, Clare. The wages you're earning are on the upper end but I'm sure you're aware there's plenty of positions going around for lower rates you're not accepting. Someone must be accepting them though.

I do agree that the North gets better rates and recent times have seen a significant uptick in locum rates around the country. While yes, you're earning significant amounts there isn't enough of those positions to go around for every pharmacist out there. As a result the spectrum for earnings varies significantly and saying pharmacists should move to the North is not a one size fits all solution.

Reply 13

JS98

11

Original post by Claremont4ever

The person you are quoting is well known in this forum for posting unconstructive comments and ridiculously low pharmacist salaries.

I graduated in 2018. I got my first job as a relief on £42,000, this went up to £55,000 after 3 months when I became a branch manager. An increase in hours led my wages to go up to £65,000 just a year after graduation. My accountant just completed my self-assessment tax return recently which includes pay I get from locumming on the side,the tax return says I made a combined wage of just over £82,000 between April 2020 and April 2021. The current average hourly locum pay in certain areas in the North is £35/hour week day and £40/hour weekends as it's coming up to the busy summer holidays and winter flu period. Pharmacists are in exceptional demand over here.

The stories of low pay in pharmacy is mainly propagated by pharmaciists working in the south who are unwilling to relocate to where there are better wages.

I am starting relief at 37k and I’m quite content with that because I’m only doing it as I’m just starting and as I know the companies pmr and ways of working, it seems like a good way to settle in for a few months. Once I gain confidence I certainly will be hunting for those higher paid rates... not that I’ll need to hunt much though

Reply 14

frostbar12

1

Original post by JS98

Community pharmacists are in ridiculous demand and locums are easily getting 25-40 quid an hour with some stores having "fully negotiable" rates. I agree that 36k is a standard graduate salary but it is that for a company without any negotiation whatsoever. Negotiate and that can be easily increased

I was getting £25 in 2005. Compare the cost of living now and then. The job was easier with less stress as well. If you are regularly getting £40 an hour please let me know where this is,I have a mortgage to pay and would love to get this rate.
I I

Reply 15

frostbar12

1

Original post by Claremont4ever

The person you are quoting is well known in this forum for posting unconstructive comments and ridiculously low pharmacist salaries.

I graduated in 2018. I got my first job as a relief on £42,000, this went up to £55,000 after 3 months when I became a branch manager. An increase in hours led my wages to go up to £65,000 just a year after graduation. My accountant just completed my self-assessment tax return recently which includes pay I get from locumming on the side,the tax return says I made a combined wage of just over £82,000 between April 2020 and April 2021. The current average hourly locum pay in certain areas in the North is £35/hour week day and £40/hour weekends as it's coming up to the busy summer holidays and winter flu period. Pharmacists are in exceptional demand over here.

The stories of low pay in pharmacy is mainly propagated by pharmaciists working in the south who are unwilling to relocate to where there are better wages.

I honestly don't mean to be rude or disrespectful but how many hours are you working? If you are able to secure £35p/h fair play to you and if this is a long term rate that is reliably obtainable I would suggest applying to the UN to negotiate a peace agreement between north and south Korea as this hourly rate on a long term basis will be just as difficult to secure. If anyone looking at being a pharmacist wonders what real wages/conditions are like walk in to any retail branch and just watch the dispensary for quarter of an hour. Then ask the pharmacist whether it is worth it. If what you say is true then I'm stoked for you though.

Reply 16

Sarah H.

10

Original post by frostbar12

I honestly don't mean to be rude or disrespectful but how many hours are you working? If you are able to secure £35p/h fair play to you and if this is a long term rate that is reliably obtainable I would suggest applying to the UN to negotiate a peace agreement between north and south Korea as this hourly rate on a long term basis will be just as difficult to secure. If anyone looking at being a pharmacist wonders what real wages/conditions are like walk in to any retail branch and just watch the dispensary for quarter of an hour. Then ask the pharmacist whether it is worth it. If what you say is true then I'm stoked for you though.

A VERY unrepresentative and atypical picture is persistently painted by this poster Claremont for some reason. Why?? The typical pharmacist annual salary in the NE for a 40ish hour week doesn’t come anywhere close to those figures boasted about.

To achieve the annual salary boasted by Izzy/Claremont4ever would in practice mean working a 60 plus hour week with extensive travelling on days off from full time position to locum at those particular pharmacies that have to offer a higher rate to attract pharmacist cover because of timing, their location or “hell hole” reputation.

The base of this working week would be regular 16 hour (yes, sixteen) shifts at an extended hour supermarket pharmacy as mentioned in their earlier posts. Time off would be minimal. Undesirable and unsustainable long term lifestyle for almost all and more importantly dangerous to patients. Tired pharmacists are far more likely to make harmful, possibly fatal, dispensing errors.

Don’t be mislead. Do your own individual research. Go into pharmacies and ask the working pharmacists. Oh…and please don’t just focus on salaries. Ask about stress and working conditions. Ask about career structure. Ask about the future. Ask if they regret their career choice. You may have your eyes opened. Reality of community pharmacy today is most likely NOTHING like the picture the Unis are painting.

Reply 17

0895

10

Original post by Claremont4ever

The person you are quoting is well known in this forum for posting unconstructive comments and ridiculously low pharmacist salaries.

I graduated in 2018. I got my first job as a relief on £42,000, this went up to £55,000 after 3 months when I became a branch manager. An increase in hours led my wages to go up to £65,000 just a year after graduation. My accountant just completed my self-assessment tax return recently which includes pay I get from locumming on the side,the tax return says I made a combined wage of just over £82,000 between April 2020 and April 2021. The current average hourly locum pay in certain areas in the North is £35/hour week day and £40/hour weekends as it's coming up to the busy summer holidays and winter flu period. Pharmacists are in exceptional demand over here.

The stories of low pay in pharmacy is mainly propagated by pharmaciists working in the south who are unwilling to relocate to where there are better wages.

My emphasis on your comment, otherwise known as the truth for most of the big cities and towns in the UK .
You work in the NE of the UK, and like the SW of the UK, thee places have always struggled to get pharmacists so traditionally pay higher wages.
Don't forget to mention you qualified abroad and have been practising in the UK for 3 years. People like Sarah H and myself have been practising for 40 and 30 years respectively.
You continually post wages that, although you might achieve them are no way near the industry average. In the Midlands conurbation the going rate varies from around £19 to £23. The same for other big cities like London and Manchester.

Reply 18

Turning_A_Corner

15

I know this thread is a bit old but didn’t the OP say that they actually were enjoying their course? Bet they wished they’d never clicked submit.

Apart from one slightly creepy pharmacist in our hospital who asks for the number of every female member of staff who talks to him, the hospital pharmacists I work with seem to really enjoy their work. I’d say there’s every hope OP.

Reply 19

0895

10

Original post by JS98

Community pharmacists are in ridiculous demand and locums are easily getting 25-40 quid an hour with some stores having "fully negotiable" rates. I agree that 36k is a standard graduate salary but it is that for a company without any negotiation whatsoever. Negotiate and that can be easily increased

My emphasis on your comment, please tell me where in the UK you are please? Are you in a city or large town, as a poster above said, I need to move to where you are.

I am currently using Locate-a-locum website, and the rates on offer there in the Midlands vary from £19 to £25. Occasionally you get a last minute £35/hr out in the sticks. I have never seen a £40 on offer.
If you are willing to move as Clare says, then you can earn more money if you are willing to go and live in a little town in the middle of Wales or East Anglia or rural Scotland or the SW, or commute to these places. I know, I've done it.
But eventually you will tire of getting up at 5am to drive 100 miles then repeat at 7pm. It's ok for a year, maybe two, especially to build up a house deposit; but once you decide you want to get married, get a house, and start a family it becomes a lifestyle that one cannot keep up. But I do wish you all the best in your new career.

Is there any hope for pharmacy students??

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