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Physics help-Newtons law of gravitation

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Reply 20
Original post by Kane987
Ahh, I think I forgot to mention what time.

I meant that the electric potential was 0 at the start of the video before drawing anything in. When he draws in the big Q with the green circle around it (the first thing he draws) electric potential is created.

I think what you were referring to was the little q in the bottom left (blue dot) but I meant the green one in the middle :smile:


I think Im probs not being clear enough - so sorry :smile:
So this is what i said in my previous post
"Thank you so much! But you know the little q, doesn't it also produce an electric potential which can like affect the Big Q.

Oh wait isn't it an electric field and not an electric potential ..electrical potential enenrgy
crap im getting it all mixed up lol"

And also this is what someone else said about this question
"The setup they're using in the video is that a fixed charge Q produces an electric field E (measured in Joules per Coulomb). You then introduce a charge into the electric field of Q' coulombs; the potential energy of the Q' charge will then be EQ'.

Usually in these situations you use a large charge Q and a small charge Q', so that the field produced by Q' doesn't mess things up. However, in the video, they introduce a charge Q' of 2 Coulombs, which is gigantic!

they're take Q as the charge that produces the electric field, and Q' as the charge that is affected by that electric field."

But I am getting confused with when they mention electric field and then you mentioned electric potential

Could you pls kindly lemme know about this - dw at all if not possible -im really grateful for all your help:smile::smile:
Original post by h26
Thank you so much! But you know the little q, doesn't it also produce an electric potential which can like affect the Big Q.

Oh wait isn't it an electric field and not an electric potential ..electrical potential enenrgy
crap im getting it all mixed up lol


I think I understand why are you so confused. I also find the way that the electric potential is introduced confusing. :smile:

I suggest that you find a reading resource to do some reading how electrical potential is explained before watching this video to connect the various concept. The person who makes the video is connecting (as far as I see) about 5 important concepts without much illustration or examples. This is IMO is very bad way to introducing electrical potential when the person says electrical potential is abstract.

What are the 5 important concepts?
1. Electric potential due to a point charge
2. Electric potential is associated to the presence of electric charge
3. Relationship between electrical potential and electrical potential energy. (The example used to illustrate this is insufficient)
4. How the interaction between 2 point charges gives rise to electrical potential energy?
5. Concept of potential difference.

This video is more like making connections to various physics concepts rather than teaching physics concepts.

You may want to look the following resources
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/physics/
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/physics/chapter/introduction-16/

Go through chapter 16 and go back to the video.
Reply 22
This is where I get confused as well lol

I don't know if this is right, but to try and explain what I think is right is:

The 2 charges are at a point in the electric field. I would think that the little q also creates electric potential, but that's not the reference point we're using. We're using the reference points of infinity to the big Q in the middle of the screen. I imagine if you were to calculate the electric potential at big Q from little q, the Qs would swap and little q would become big Q as that would be the new reference point.

Study.com says electrical potential energy is the energy a charge has due to its relative position to other charges. I just looked it up then, try searching study. Com electrical potential energy as it explains it very well :smile:
Reply 23
Original post by Kane987
This is where I get confused as well lol

I don't know if this is right, but to try and explain what I think is right is:

The 2 charges are at a point in the electric field. I would think that the little q also creates electric potential, but that's not the reference point we're using. We're using the reference points of infinity to the big Q in the middle of the screen. I imagine if you were to calculate the electric potential at big Q from little q, the Qs would swap and little q would become big Q as that would be the new reference point.

Study.com says electrical potential energy is the energy a charge has due to its relative position to other charges. I just looked it up then, try searching study. Com electrical potential energy as it explains it very well :smile:

Np at all :smile: and thanks a lot again:smile: Imma look into this website now and what Eimmanuel
attached in their post
Oh and how do you know what is the reference point?
Original post by Kane987
...

Study.com says electrical potential energy is the energy a charge has due to its relative position to other charges. I just looked it up then, try searching study. Com electrical potential energy as it explains it very well :smile:


A comment on the underlined statement. It seems that something that was not well explained to a lot of A level Physics students.

In physics, when we talk about potential energy such gravitational potential energy and electrical potential energy, the potential should be considered to be a property of the entire system. rather than of any specific part of the system or object.
Take more example, when a ball of mass m is thrown up on the surface of the Earth, the ball rises through a vertical height h, the gravitiational potential energy (gpe) of the system (ball+Earth) increases by mgh, the kinetic energy of the system also decreases by the same amount. Although in most of the standard A physics textbook, you would tend to see question that ask you to calculate the gpe of the an object in some problem, you should NOT think the gpe that you calculated belongs to the object ONLY.

Going back to the ball+Earth system and consider why the textbooks are using phrases like gpe of the ball. This is because in the ball+Earth system, the Earth is so much massive than the ball, so when there is a decrease in the gpe of the system (ball+Earth) accompanies by an increase in KE of the system (ball+Earth), virtually all of the increase in KE goes to the ball. It is for this reason that we refer to the gpe of the ball rather than (more precisely) of the Earth+ball system.

Similarly when we talk about electrical potential energy (EPE) for two charges, the EPE belongs to system of two charges rather than a particular charge.
Reply 25
Original post by Eimmanuel
A comment on the underlined statement. It seems that something that was not well explained to a lot of A level Physics students.

In physics, when we talk about potential energy such gravitational potential energy and electrical potential energy, the potential should be considered to be a property of the entire system. rather than of any specific part of the system or object.
Take more example, when a ball of mass m is thrown up on the surface of the Earth, the ball rises through a vertical height h, the gravitiational potential energy (gpe) of the system (ball+Earth) increases by mgh, the kinetic energy of the system also decreases by the same amount. Although in most of the standard A physics textbook, you would tend to see question that ask you to calculate the gpe of the an object in some problem, you should NOT think the gpe that you calculated belongs to the object ONLY.

Going back to the ball+Earth system and consider why the textbooks are using phrases like gpe of the ball. This is because in the ball+Earth system, the Earth is so much massive than the ball, so when there is a decrease in the gpe of the system (ball+Earth) accompanies by an increase in KE of the system (ball+Earth), virtually all of the increase in KE goes to the ball. It is for this reason that we refer to the gpe of the ball rather than (more precisely) of the Earth+ball system.

Similarly when we talk about electrical potential energy (EPE) for two charges, the EPE belongs to system of two charges rather than a particular charge.


It definitely started to make more sense when I looked it up again after the exams, you're right in the fact that I did not think of it applying to the entire system and it's probably why I found it so confusing :smile:
Reply 26
Original post by h26
Np at all :smile: and thanks a lot again:smile: Imma look into this website now and what Eimmanuel
attached in their post
Oh and how do you know what is the reference point?


If I remember properly, I believe the questions I got in class would usually be 'calculate the electric potential of a charge 'n' x metres away from a charge y' you'd have to figure out that y is the reference point and that n is the little q, other than that I lose track myself haha :smile:
Reply 27
Original post by Kane987
If I remember properly, I believe the questions I got in class would usually be 'calculate the electric potential of a charge 'n' x metres away from a charge y' you'd have to figure out that y is the reference point and that n is the little q, other than that I lose track myself haha :smile:

ah thanks a lot:smile::smile: I get what you did!
Original post by Kane987
It definitely started to make more sense when I looked it up again after the exams, you're right in the fact that I did not think of it applying to the entire system and it's probably why I found it so confusing :smile:


All the best for your result. You find physics confusing is sometimes is because you are taught by confusing physics teachers or you have not encountered the books that explain physics clearly.

Energy is an important concept but it is sad to see how badly it is taught at A level where students seems to know how to do number crunching problem most of the time without much fundamental understanding. :smile:
Reply 29
Original post by Kane987
If I remember properly, I believe the questions I got in class would usually be 'calculate the electric potential of a charge 'n' x metres away from a charge y' you'd have to figure out that y is the reference point and that n is the little q, other than that I lose track myself haha :smile:

Hey it's me again with another question lol:biggrin:
so at 1:17 of this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxYH41vV-DI why is the only pressure atmosphere pressure like what about the pressure from the fluid ?

Can you pls lemme know whenever you get the chance?
Dw if not possible:smile:
Reply 30
Original post by h26
Hey it's me again with another question lol:biggrin:
so at 1:17 of this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxYH41vV-DI why is the only pressure atmosphere pressure like what about the pressure from the fluid ?

Can you pls lemme know whenever you get the chance?
Dw if not possible:smile:


Eek! I don't think I did anything like this in my course so I'm afraid I can't help you, sorry!

I can take a random guess though lol (Since I've never done this it is literally a stab in the dark haha)

I would assume the point 1 only experiences atmospheric pressure because it is at the top of the water? I would imagine it would be like if we could stand on water, we would only be experiencing atmospheric pressure and not the one from the fluid? Other than that, I have no idea sorry! :smile:
Reply 31
Original post by Kane987
Eek! I don't think I did anything like this in my course so I'm afraid I can't help you, sorry!

I can take a random guess though lol (Since I've never done this it is literally a stab in the dark haha)

I would assume the point 1 only experiences atmospheric pressure because it is at the top of the water? I would imagine it would be like if we could stand on water, we would only be experiencing atmospheric pressure and not the one from the fluid? Other than that, I have no idea sorry! :smile:

Ah no worries at all! Thanks a lot again :smile: I think I'll just go with what you said for now lol
Original post by h26
Hey it's me again with another question lol:biggrin:
so at 1:17 of this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxYH41vV-DI why is the only pressure atmosphere pressure like what about the pressure from the fluid ?

Can you pls lemme know whenever you get the chance?
Dw if not possible:smile:


Hi, sticks to one question per thread and open a new thread for new question. Not abusing it.
Reply 33
Original post by Kane987
Eek! I don't think I did anything like this in my course so I'm afraid I can't help you, sorry!

I can take a random guess though lol (Since I've never done this it is literally a stab in the dark haha)

I would assume the point 1 only experiences atmospheric pressure because it is at the top of the water? I would imagine it would be like if we could stand on water, we would only be experiencing atmospheric pressure and not the one from the fluid? Other than that, I have no idea sorry! :smile:

Heyy! Sorry to be such a bother but I have another question haha lol
It can be found in a new thread I made cause this is getting too long :smile:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5479682&p=78827838#post78827838
Could you please kindly help with this if you get the chance?
Dw at all if not possible - I massively appreciate your help so far:smile:
Reply 34
Original post by Kane987
If I remember properly, I believe the questions I got in class would usually be 'calculate the electric potential of a charge 'n' x metres away from a charge y' you'd have to figure out that y is the reference point and that n is the little q, other than that I lose track myself haha :smile:

Hey:smile:

I am meant to learn about Joule's heat.
Can you pls kindly lemme me know what the equation for this is and what it means also?

Pls pls help me - will be much much appreciated !!! :smile::smile:
Reply 35
This website explains it better than I could: https://uk.comsol.com/multiphysics/the-joule-heating-effect :smile:

However, I don't remember which equation it concerns as we didn't get an actual topic called 'Joule Heating', it was just encompassed in other things we learned. :smile:
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 36
Original post by Kane987
This website explains it better than I could: https://uk.comsol.com/multiphysics/the-joule-heating-effect :smile:

However, I don't remember which equation it concerns as we didn't get an actual topic called 'Joule Heating', it was just encompasses in other things we learned. :smile:


Ah thank you so much!!:smile::smile:
Electric PE? I think you're referring to the work done by the electric force.
So most of us know that
F = kQq/r^2

Work done = F * r = F dr
However, work done by electric force is defined as the work needed to bring a charge from infinity to a distance r
Thus we need to integrate between infinity and r,
Applying L'hopsital rules, we obtain
W = -kQq/r
And that is the work done by electric force.

Cool ain't it? To see how maths relates to physics
Original post by williamnguyen
Electric PE? I think you're referring to the work done by the electric force.
So most of us know that
F = kQq/r^2

Work done = F * r = F dr
However, work done by electric force is defined as the work needed to bring a charge from infinity to a distance r
Thus we need to integrate between infinity and r,
Applying L'hopsital rules, we obtain
W = -kQq/r
And that is the work done by electric force.

Cool ain't it? To see how maths relates to physics



As far as I know, I have not come across a physics textbook that use L’Hopital’s rules to derive the electrostatic potential energy between two point charges. You are applying L’Hopital’s rule unnecessary.

It is definitely “cool” for some math inclined students to see how maths is applied in physics.
Original post by Eimmanuel
As far as I know, I have not come across a physics textbook that use L’Hopital’s rules to derive the electrostatic potential energy between two point charges. You are applying L’Hopital’s rule unnecessary.

It is definitely “cool” for some math inclined students to see how maths is applied in physics.


I suppose you don't really need L'Hopital's rule because -KqQ/r --> 0 when r --> infinity

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