'I don't need feminism because...'

What confuses you? He was for the equality of women societally. So am I. So is OP. We're not feminists. Neither was Mill. Mill's ideals on a tonality of many other spheres is opposed to the usual idioms of feminist thought, not to mention "feminism" used in unison with Mill is by definition anachronistic. Didn't exist.

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So this is all about semantics? Mill was by all accounts what is now described as a liberal feminist, whether or not the term was used at the time matters very little.

Everything is about semantics. If you want to generalise then fine, but do it by accord of well observed axioms. This is not it. Mill was not a liberal feminist and if in a juxtaposition to modern thought he'd be right leaning.

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You and I seem to have different ideas of what femnism advocates and therefore also different opinions about how well Mills' ideas and the ideas of feminism marry up.

You sound like a pseudointellectual to be honest. Well observed axioms? Left-right division refers to the French Revolution, by his standards he went against the status quo and promoted a form of economic democracy in his economic writings; most consider him to be centre-left or centre-right on the basis of his moderate support for capitalism; regardless he was still a believer in the view that women's rights would lead to increased happiness in society, which makes him a feminist by modern standards.

This thread is full of people explaining this, backing it up with endless statistics which you just casually disregard as false.

Listen. You haven't provided me with anything to go on yet, nothing I could possibly disregard. The feminist oppression dream of a rape culture in the UK is demonstrably false, and is another fear tactic used by feminists to paint men as evil as a whole and remove their power and emasculate them.

Instead of getting mad at me, and I admit I am not the most diplomatic of chaps, why not just answer my point? I believe the problem is there is no actual quantifiable end to "gender equality", because if one sex starts doing better in an aspect of life, the other side must be artificially boosted.

This is all I'm asking, and it's very telling when you come out all guns blazing with ad hominem and walls of QQ text. You're writing very emotionally and letting this artificial injustice cloud your rational judgement.

Now, keep a cool head and tell me what gender equality you are looking to achieve.

I don't need feminism because I don't think it's democratic to bar one half of the population from standing for Parliament on account of their gender, nor respectful of the ability of the other half to succeed without a patronising leg-up from the state.

Supporting equality as a whole still makes you a feminist though! I advocate the rights of everyone within significant aspects of their life when they are treated unfairly, discriminated against, or otherwise at a disadvantage. So yes, I am a feminist, because I advocate women's rights, and yes I'm an advocate of LGBT rights, and I also advocate black rights too!!! Is a masculinist is someone who advocates men's rights, then I guess I'm one of those as well! By very definition of the word feminist, I couldn't fit it any better. I do support everyone's rights, but unfortunately there isn't a word for that so I have to label myself with the words that do exist, even if they are for very specific groups of people, but that doesn't stop me from being that thing, if you advocate women's rights and believe in gender equality then by it's very definition you are a feminist, because nowhere in the definition does it state that you can't support anyone else's right too. I think this is what you're not understanding.




I'm a feminist (because I advocate women's rights and believe in gender equality) and there's no-one in the world who's rights I disregard, so I don't understand why the majority of people don't identify as feminist too, unless they're either sexist or just don't advocate anyone's rights (even slightly) because they're simply lazy. Like literally, most people I know believe that the sexes are equal, and they'll even sometimes say something about the unfairness of something to do with females (I heard a a bunch of guys talking about how bad it is that girls have to pay so much for tampons, it was very awkward to witness tbh. Likewise they all accept that women deserved the right to vote and they couldn't believe that it was difficult for them to be given it). But if I approached them and asked if they were feminists, they'd all bloody retch and mock the world to hell. But why? They fit the definition perfectly, so why don't they identify as it? Because they don't understand what it means, they don't understand that feminism isn't this exclusive "woman supreme" bundle of beliefs that prevent people from supporting any other group of people, incapable of acknowledging mens' drawbacks. And that's my problem, all of this anti-feminism is bull**** and the girls on that front page have some really pathetic, ignorant views and I can't believe that there are open-minded, educated people shooting down something which so clearly should be the norm

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100% agree. Also, I don't know why the other user said the last part wasn't clear, it made pefect sense.

You can't impose on other people what they identify as. Many people justifiably don't feel feminism adequately fights for the rights of both genders or even all members of the same gender. It doesn't speak to all women and being dismissive of that and insisting 'they don't understand feminism' rather than addressing it says everything that's wrong with it.

I agree, though there are still issue's to sort out in the west, they're not comparable to the massive problem's women in other parts of the world still face. I'm not going to tell anyone they're not a 'proper' feminist for not focusing more on these issues, but in my opinion lot's are going about it wrongly.

It shouldn't really matter though, should it? The user in question should be able to respond respectfully even if my view wasn't accepted by most. It's relly unfortunate, this whole thing. Frankly sad, I must say - genuinely.

Feminism doesn't fight for the rights of both genders, hence why I said people aren't restricted to being a feminist only. They can also advocate men's rights too. And I'm sorry but your last point is really rather quite unclear.

oh idk maybe it's because everytime someone provides you with evidence you just disregard it, and I'm not gonna waste any more time explaining something to someone who will just lie it away, pretending that it's all false?

I think the reason there might be that there isn't one. When's the last time you saw someone say that men should avoid going out at night, drinking or travelling on their own so that they don't get assaulted?

Men commit the vast majority of crimes, and particularly violent crimes.

The vast majority of men are straight.

Therefore it is neither sexist, nor an indication of a 'rape epidemic culture' that women are sexually assaulted in much higher numbers than men.

Also worth noting that men are much more likely to be physically assaulted than women are to be sexually assaulted - but you don't see constant refrains about 'assault culture' or plaintive cries about victim blaming nonsense on that topic.

Bad, violent criminals will always exist and they will always be mostly male. For men, this means they will always be at risk of physical assault; for women, they will always be at risk of sexual assault. The sooner they get over that and accept it, the better for their own sakes.

If they reasoned consistently from their feminist principles

In fact the position the "social justice" people actually take on that issue is to deny that higher black crime rate even exists, arguing instead that the statistics are a result of a byzantine social conspiracy on the basis that the crime rate should be expected to be the same for everyone.

I think the reason there might be that there isn't one. When's the last time you saw someone say that men should avoid going out at night, drinking or travelling on their own so that they don't get assaulted?