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isnt feminism pointless now women are basicaly equal? Watch

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    (Original post by leonPaul123)
    There isn't meant to a very good reason. It's mission before men and it is harder to leave a woman behind than a man.

    Plus they basically are on the frontline; through jobs such as translator, medic etc...
    I think the main reason for not letting women into war isnt really a sexism thing, but more of a fact that women are more valuable in continuing the human race. You only need one man to father 50 children

    But that was in the olden days- World War 2 and 1 etc.
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    (Original post by leonPaul123)
    There isn't meant to a very good reason. It's mission before men and it is harder to leave a woman behind than a man.

    Plus they basically are on the frontline; through jobs such as translator, medic etc...
    Well the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel all have female soldiers. They seem to manage.
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    lol @ extreme feminism
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    (Original post by L'Etudiant)
    Seeing those comments I just want to say:


    2) In regards to girls not needing to feel at fault if they are assaulted if they get drunk on a night out. This is the single most stupidest thing I have ever heard. It's like me walking into a lion den full of starving animals and feeling 'surprised' if I get attacked.
    I find this to be an immense disservice to men, and pretty sexist to men to be honest. You're equating men with animals ? They're, for the most part, cogent, smart human beings who know better than to take advantage of another human being for their own gratification.
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    (Original post by CactiQueen)
    Yeah so "cringe" about women all across the globe in present 2014 still being forced into arrange marriages, denied education, being shot for wanting an education, acid attacks and gang rapes in India and police not doing anything, women being publicly hung for leaving their abusive husbands. I support feminism for those reasons the fact that there is still these things happening. Feminism is not about wanting to be better than men, it's about being equal to. Women deserve the right to have an education, be free, have choice, have a say, have a vote and all across the world, still to this day that is not the case. Men all across the globe are still being treated badly with enforced stereotyping, Men are forced to work, women do the cleaning.


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Lol yeah across the world. Not here. Hence it is not needed here. Lets not act like feminists spend much time campaigning for women to be able to drive in Saudi Arabia shall we.

    Also, I love the way you complain all about problems facing women, then add in a little bit about men at the end to make it seem like it's about equality.
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    (Original post by GeorgeBradford)
    sorry but everywhere I look in society, women basically have equal rights with men. Women are treated equally at any important level (like in the law) - surely they have little to complain about?

    its obvious feminism has gone too far. a man can hardly approach a woman now before being accused as a rapist. Many gestures seen as romantic in many other countries would be classed as sexual assault in the uk. if a woman decided to get hammered and gets assaulted, apparently it's in no way her fault because women have a right to drink, therefore they can disregard their own safety.

    it's about time feminism, with its stereotyping of men as power-hungry sexual predators and women as innocent victims, changed its agenda to suit reality and not what its followers percieve.
    I would agree that women are mostly equal in uk society however in many parts of the world there is still a lot of work to be made in equal treatment for women and men and this is what I think feminists should be focusing on In the 21st century.
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    What people don't realise is there is a difference between implicit and explicit sexism.


    Yes, there are no sexist laws. There's no law saying that women are not allowed to enter a certain career field, or they don't have a right to something that men do. Yes, explicit sexism in our country has more or less been sorted.


    But there's still implicit sexism, attitudes towards females still need to improve. Women are sexualised too much in the media, in adverts, even in news presenting. It's still acceptable for a man to reach middle age, be fat and balding and to still present the News, but for women they have a sell by date. When the woman passes middle age it's out with the old and in with the new and perky.

    This attitude does transfer into real life, and the work place, where a woman's appearance is scrutinised more than mens. There's also still the attitude that women are somehow less capable than men, they are still less likely to go into careers and further education in the likes engineering, physics etc. And that's not because women are less capable, it's because of attitudes and expectations. Girls are more likely to believe they are less capable, because of societies current attitudes. Yes there is no explicit barriers to women entering these fields, but there are indirect, implicit hurdles that women face more of than men.


    Why are there still naked women in page 3 but not naked men? Can you honestly tell me this sort of thing has absolutely no impact on society's attitude whatsoever? On gender roles?


    Yes, our country is not desperate in it's need for feminism in that women have the same basic rights as men. But if you're happy to stop there then you need to take a look at yourself, because attitudes still suck. You only need to look at the comments from the boys on here to see there is room for improvement. Women are sexualised more than men, yet when they have sex more often than what society deems appropriate they are called sluts.

    ----------


    This sums up to me modern day Western sexism- http://blogs.indiewire.com/womenandh...diet-questions

    Scarlett Johansson and Robert Downey Jr are both asked a question regarding their Avengers movie-

    Reporter: “I have a question to Robert and to Scarlett. Firstly to Robert, throughout Iron Man 1 and 2, Tony Stark started off as a very egotistical character but learns how to fight as a team. And so how did you approach this role, bearing in mind that kind of maturity as a human being when it comes to the Tony Stark character, and did you learn anything throughout the three movies that you made?

    And then Scarlett's question-

    “And to Scarlett, to get into shape for Black Widow did you have anything special to do in terms of the diet, like did you have to eat any specific food, or that sort of thing?”
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    (Original post by liass)
    Yes, feminism is still required. Perhaps not to the extent it was many years ago, but there is still a pretty crappy attitude towards women nowadays.
    Not all feminists are violent, men-hating extremists who think just because someone has a penis they are a monster. There are plenty of nice guys who treat women well, just like there are many women who treat other women badly. Women slut-shame and victim-shame just as much, if not more, than men.
    But still, here are some statistics to convince you

    In TV shows/Film:


    • Only 30.6% of speaking characters are women
    • 28.8% of women wear sexually revealing clothes, as opposed to 7.0% of men
    • 26.2% of women get partially naked as opposed to 9.4% of men
    • Only 10.7% of films contain a balanced cast with half the cast being women
    • Average ratio of male actors to female actors: 2.25:1
    • Roughly 1/3 of female cast members of a movie are at one point or another put into sexually-revealing attire
    • There is a 5 to 1 ratio of males working on movies to females


    Nice links to where you got the resources from...

    Well her is my counter points about 30% being woman. Well look at the genre statistics (http://www.statcrunch.com/5.0/viewre...reportid=25201)

    The majority (Action, Adventure, Crime etc...) are all very masculine genres which generally have male lead characters, so I don't see what your statistic points out. Can I complain about the ratio of male actors in lesbian porn then?

    I'm pretty sure you can't start saying 1/3 wear sexually-revealing attire, they can do what they like. If it was a male making a comment about what a female is wearing you'd be all like "she can wear what she wants", it's there choice to wear it and it's not like a lot of woman use there sexuality to get something they want, can a man do that... not really.

    The 5:1 ratio is basically useless aswell. All the jobs which i'd be involved are male dominated such as production, so how is that statsic helpful?


    (Original post by liass)

    Industry inequality:


    • The full time gender pay gap is 10%, and the average part-time pay gap is 34.5%.


    • It is estimated that for each year a mother is absent from the workplace her future wages will reduce by 5%.


    • Approximately 70% of people in national minimum wage jobs are women.


    • 54% of women working part-time have been found to be ‘employed below their potential’, which amounts to 2.8 million women
    • Women make up only 17% board directors of FTSE 100 companies.


    • A study by the Fawcett Society found that 51% of women and men from middle management to director level identify stereotyping as the major hurdle facing women at work


    • Up to 30,000 women are sacked each year simply for being pregnant and each year an estimated 440,000 women lose out on pay or promotion as a result of pregnancy.


    • 14% of White British women have been asked about their plans for marriage and/or children at a job interview compared to 20-25% of Black Caribbean, Bangladeshi and Pakistani women.


    • 26% of trade union branches have received enquiries from members who have been exposed to the sex industry – including pornography – at work.
    • It is estimated that the UK would gain up to £23 billion (the equivalent to 2% of GDP) by better harnessing women’s skills in employment.



    Again there is no wage gap. Please read before posting.

    Well no **** if you take a year out your FUTURE pay will be reduced. Shall i stop working for 10 years and then complain I don't get the same as people who have 10 years more experience etc?

    Probably 70% are in minimum wage jobs as it offers flexible hours for when they are looking after the children, not saying a man shouldn't or could stay at home. But generally the mother does.

    Again employed below there worth as if they're working part time it is probably as they are looking after the child and have had a year or two of from work or longer. So obviously they're not as valuable to a company.

    I don't blame employers for not wanting to hire woman who are just married. Why should I have to pay for them to take around 1.5 years of for a decision all of there own. I don't pay my male employees for 1.5 years as they go globe trotting.

    Again great sources for these statistics, I think some are plunked out of the air.

    (Original post by liass)
    Politics:


    • Only 1 in 4 MPs is a woman and women from minority ethnic groups make up only 1.2% of MPs yet comprise 4% of the UK population.


    • Women are outnumbered 5 to1 by men in the cabinet only 16% of senior ministerial posts are held by women.


    • The UK is ranked joint 58th in the world with regards to the number of women in national parliaments.


    • Just 34.7% of senior civil servants are women.


    • Locally, just 35% of elected councillors are women and only 13% of local authority council leaders are women.


    • At the current rate of progress we would have to wait more than 150 years before seeing an equal number of women and men elected to English local councils.




    Do you have any statistics on the number of woman who put themselves up for election? As I rarely see a woman on any election posters. I'd say it is more a lack of woman running than anything else.

    (Original post by liass)
    General:


    • 1 in 4 women in their lifetime will be sexually assaulted- far more than men (though yes men do get sexually assaulted and I dont think their pain should be made to seem less than womens)
    • 1 in 5 men believe it is appropriate for a women to be slapped or touched sexually if she is wearing revealing or sexual attire


    Again

    (Original post by liass)
    Sexist scenarios women face at work that men do not:

    • Being mistaken for a secretary/tea lady at board meetings of big companies'
    • At a doctors office, patients requesting help from a "male doctor" instead of a female doctor, purely for sexist reasons
    • Being accused of menstruation when voicing a firm opinion
    • Being asked if a man is available instead
    • Being sexually assaulted at work. This is actually a very big problem, I know several women who have either had to quit due to bosses coming onto them or being fired for refusing to sleep with the boss
    • When a woman voices an opinion, she is ignored or labelled a *****. When a man voices the same opinion, he is praised and called a hard worker


    If a woman is being mistaken for a tea lady she obviously inst dressing properly for her role. No one will mistake her for being a tea lady in formal wear. Could I then say it is sexist as male receptionist are confused as board members.

    As a male I prefer to have a female doctor and request one. I find a female easier to talk to and more sympathetic.

    I don't think sexual harassment is as large as you're making it out. Cause if they are; then they'd sue the [email protected] out of the company.

    They're accused of menstruating due to the way they voice it. Not the fact they are voicing it. If someone is being a knob then there called out, no matter who they are nd woman are more aggressive on there period. Is stating facts sexist?

    Plunk the last one out of your ass again? I think anyone sensible doesn't need someone else to point out how that makes no sense.

    (Original post by liass)
    Yes, I agree the situation for women is better now. But it is nowhere near ideal. It is much harder for women to get to the top of the career ladder or hold high payed and important positions- purely due to sexism. Women have already proved in IQ tests and exams and things like that that they are just as capable as men.

    Take the science industry for example. When a woman claims she wants to go into something like physics or other sciences, she is mocked and told not to, as it is a 'male field'.

    So until this improves, yes we still need feminism.
    And dont use all those crazy tumblr feminists as a representation of feminism as a whole. Many feminists are lovely people and not misandrists and its sad that a few crazy feminists give feminists in general a bad name


    And dont give me bull**** about how 'men are objectified just as much as women'. No they arent. Yes, women do objectify men but nowhere near the extent that men objectify women.
    Just turn on the TV and look at the ads. I guarantee you that a lot of ads unnecessarily use women in near-partial nakedness to sell products.

    Also, recently Marina and the Diamonds released a video for her track 'How to Be a Heartbreaker', where partially naked men danced around. The video received a lot of backlash from men for 'objectifying them'. Well, quite a large majority of male rappers and singers use almost-naked women in their videos and seem to get no backlash


    Also, dont even get me started on sexism in non-Western and poorer countries. Women are literally seen as the property of men in those countries. They definitely need feminism
    Like i've said again. Old boys who are sexist at the top may be holding up progress. But I dodut it is a problem. If i own a company i want £££££££ and if a woman is more capable and gets me more £ then she is in. Business is ruled by £ therefore it will follew the £.

    Oh one wee youtube video got some backlash and its popular opinion. Generally male objection is ignored. Look at the TV adverts and companies are using less revealing females due to backlash. Yet no ones saying **** about the male objection such as the coke adverts with topless men with 6 paxs etc.

    I agree feminism is needed in 3rd world countries. But not here. They're may be cases were there is female discrimination. But there is also cases where they get positive discrimination, EG getting of with crimes, look at the first page of this post a news article on a girl who bottled a guy and got off with it as she is a woman, they also get custody rights usually etc. Theres tonnes of sexist things facing both gender.
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    (Original post by GeorgeBradford)
    sorry but everywhere I look in society, women basically have equal rights with men. Women are treated equally at any important level (like in the law) - surely they have little to complain about?
    Laws, while an essential part, do not make a society equal on their own.

    (Original post by GeorgeBradford)
    its obvious feminism has gone too far. a man can hardly approach a woman now before being accused as a rapist. Many gestures seen as romantic in many other countries would be classed as sexual assault in the uk. if a woman decided to get hammered and gets assaulted, apparently it's in no way her fault because women have a right to drink, therefore they can disregard their own safety.
    :lolwut:

    (Original post by GeorgeBradford)
    it's about time feminism, with its stereotyping of men as power-hungry sexual predators and women as innocent victims, changed its agenda to suit reality and not what its followers percieve.
    Please tell me how much you've actually studied feminism.
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Well the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel all have female soldiers. They seem to manage.
    I didn't say there wasn't female soldiers. They just not infantry front line.
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    (Original post by VK96)
    lol @ extreme feminism

    There is a difference between Feminists and extreme feminists.
    Someone people hold extreme views, but the majority do not
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    (Original post by liass)
    Yes, feminism is still required. Perhaps not to the extent it was many years ago, but there is still a pretty crappy attitude towards women nowadays.
    Not all feminists are violent, men-hating extremists who think just because someone has a penis they are a monster. There are plenty of nice guys who treat women well, just like there are many women who treat other women badly. Women slut-shame and victim-shame just as much, if not more, than men.
    But still, here are some statistics to convince you

    In TV shows/Film:


    • Only 30.6% of speaking characters are women
    • 28.8% of women wear sexually revealing clothes, as opposed to 7.0% of men
    • 26.2% of women get partially naked as opposed to 9.4% of men
    • Only 10.7% of films contain a balanced cast with half the cast being women
    • Average ratio of male actors to female actors: 2.25:1
    • Roughly 1/3 of female cast members of a movie are at one point or another put into sexually-revealing attire
    • There is a 5 to 1 ratio of males working on movies to females


    Industry inequality:


    • The full time gender pay gap is 10%, and the average part-time pay gap is 34.5%.


    • It is estimated that for each year a mother is absent from the workplace her future wages will reduce by 5%.


    • Approximately 70% of people in national minimum wage jobs are women.


    • 54% of women working part-time have been found to be ‘employed below their potential’, which amounts to 2.8 million women
    • Women make up only 17% board directors of FTSE 100 companies.


    • A study by the Fawcett Society found that 51% of women and men from middle management to director level identify stereotyping as the major hurdle facing women at work


    • Up to 30,000 women are sacked each year simply for being pregnant and each year an estimated 440,000 women lose out on pay or promotion as a result of pregnancy.


    • 14% of White British women have been asked about their plans for marriage and/or children at a job interview compared to 20-25% of Black Caribbean, Bangladeshi and Pakistani women.


    • 26% of trade union branches have received enquiries from members who have been exposed to the sex industry – including pornography – at work.
    • It is estimated that the UK would gain up to £23 billion (the equivalent to 2% of GDP) by better harnessing women’s skills in employment.


    Politics:


    • Only 1 in 4 MPs is a woman and women from minority ethnic groups make up only 1.2% of MPs yet comprise 4% of the UK population.


    • Women are outnumbered 5 to1 by men in the cabinet only 16% of senior ministerial posts are held by women.


    • The UK is ranked joint 58th in the world with regards to the number of women in national parliaments.


    • Just 34.7% of senior civil servants are women.


    • Locally, just 35% of elected councillors are women and only 13% of local authority council leaders are women.


    • At the current rate of progress we would have to wait more than 150 years before seeing an equal number of women and men elected to English local councils.




    General:


    • 1 in 4 women in their lifetime will be sexually assaulted- far more than men (though yes men do get sexually assaulted and I dont think their pain should be made to seem less than womens)
    • 1 in 5 men believe it is appropriate for a women to be slapped or touched sexually if she is wearing revealing or sexual attire



    Sexist scenarios women face at work that men do not:

    • Being mistaken for a secretary/tea lady at board meetings of big companies'
    • At a doctors office, patients requesting help from a "male doctor" instead of a female doctor, purely for sexist reasons
    • Being accused of menstruation when voicing a firm opinion
    • Being asked if a man is available instead
    • Being sexually assaulted at work. This is actually a very big problem, I know several women who have either had to quit due to bosses coming onto them or being fired for refusing to sleep with the boss
    • When a woman voices an opinion, she is ignored or labelled a *****. When a man voices the same opinion, he is praised and called a hard worker


    Yes, I agree the situation for women is better now. But it is nowhere near ideal. It is much harder for women to get to the top of the career ladder or hold high payed and important positions- purely due to sexism. Women have already proved in IQ tests and exams and things like that that they are just as capable as men.

    Take the science industry for example. When a woman claims she wants to go into something like physics or other sciences, she is mocked and told not to, as it is a 'male field'.

    So until this improves, yes we still need feminism.
    And dont use all those crazy tumblr feminists as a representation of feminism as a whole. Many feminists are lovely people and not misandrists and its sad that a few crazy feminists give feminists in general a bad name


    And dont give me bull**** about how 'men are objectified just as much as women'. No they arent. Yes, women do objectify men but nowhere near the extent that men objectify women.
    Just turn on the TV and look at the ads. I guarantee you that a lot of ads unnecessarily use women in near-partial nakedness to sell products.

    Also, recently Marina and the Diamonds released a video for her track 'How to Be a Heartbreaker', where partially naked men danced around. The video received a lot of backlash from men for 'objectifying them'. Well, quite a large majority of male rappers and singers use almost-naked women in their videos and seem to get no backlash


    Also, dont even get me started on sexism in non-Western and poorer countries. Women are literally seen as the property of men in those countries. They definitely need feminism

    I agree. Feminism is still needed.
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    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    What people don't realise is there is a difference between implicit and explicit sexism.


    Yes, there are no sexist laws. There's no law saying that women are not allowed to enter a certain career field, or they don't have a right to something that men do. Yes, explicit sexism in our country has more or less been sorted.


    But there's still implicit sexism, attitudes towards females still need to improve. Women are sexualised too much in the media, in adverts, even in news presenting. It's still acceptable for a man to reach middle age, be fat and balding and to still present the News, but for women they have a sell by date. When the woman passes middle age it's out with the old and in with the new and perky.
    There males objectifaction and yet i don't see anyone getting upset. Heman, male models, coke advert etc...

    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    This attitude does transfer into real life, and the work place, where a woman's appearance is scrutinised more than mens. There's also still the attitude that women are somehow less capable than men, they are still less likely to go into careers and further education in the likes engineering, physics etc. And that's not because women are less capable, it's because of attitudes and expectations. Girls are more likely to believe they are less capable, because of societies current attitudes. Yes there is no explicit barriers to women entering these fields, but there are indirect, implicit hurdles that women face more of than men.
    Can I say there is less woman who go into higher education of Physiology, English and more woman in general go to university. Are those subjects and university therefore sexist, no. It's all about choice. Men and woman naturally pick different subjects and career paths.

    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    Why are there still naked women in page 3 but not naked men? Can you honestly tell me this sort of thing has absolutely no impact on society's attitude whatsoever? On gender roles?
    What about all the male media basically saying men need to be buff and muscular. Go to a gym about 70% is male.

    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    Yes, our country is not desperate in it's need for feminism in that women have the same basic rights as men. But if you're happy to stop there then you need to take a look at yourself, because attitudes still suck. You only need to look at the comments from the boys on here to see there is room for improvement. Women are sexualised more than men, yet when they have sex more often than what society deems appropriate they are called sluts.
    There is the male equivalent of the lack of or excess of sex.


    (Original post by TolerantBeing)
    ----------


    This sums up to me modern day Western sexism- http://blogs.indiewire.com/womenandh...diet-questions

    Scarlett Johansson and Robert Downey Jr are both asked a question regarding their Avengers movie-

    Reporter: “I have a question to Robert and to Scarlett. Firstly to Robert, throughout Iron Man 1 and 2, Tony Stark started off as a very egotistical character but learns how to fight as a team. And so how did you approach this role, bearing in mind that kind of maturity as a human being when it comes to the Tony Stark character, and did you learn anything throughout the three movies that you made?

    And then Scarlett's question-

    “And to Scarlett, to get into shape for Black Widow did you have anything special to do in terms of the diet, like did you have to eat any specific food, or that sort of thing?”
    Shall we just focus on a singular issue facing woman. As I've stated there may be sexual discriminations against woman but there is many facing both genders.
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    (Original post by CactiQueen)
    I agree. Feminism is still needed.
    Basically debunked 80% of there points...
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    He didn't say that at all, lol
    Pretty much. He inferred that's it's her fault.

    Look, I'm not going to argue with any of you, but I just think that in this world where women and men have different behaviours expected of them ("boys will be boys" etc) and 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted, we need feminism. Not radical, man-hating feminism, but feminism. If you guys don't like that, then, oh well. We're not doing this for you. We're doing this for us. Not everything has to be about men (unless you're talking about Tumblr feminism where it's all about man-hating, and then I see no need for it).

    By the way, the real feminists (i.e. not the third wave man-haters) want justice for men too (like equal child custody rights etc).
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    "basically" equality? how are they "basically" equal? they're completely equal, if not, legally superior
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    (Original post by leonPaul123)
    I didn't say there wasn't female soldiers. They just not infantry front line.
    You sure about that?

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/30/op...men-in-combat/

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    (Original post by leonPaul123)
    Basically debunked 80% of there points...
    How arrogant. You actually did no such thing, you either brushed them off as not worthy problems or said 'yeh well men suffer too'. Maybe you need to reconsider what it means to 'debunk' something.
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    Feminism is a joke has it really achieved anything? We are always quick to say people in Saudi are treated badly which is true but the UK also has its problems. Employers are still openly hiring men over women because they don't want to pay for maternity I know some companies that do this so do my friends, gender pay still exists men are still earning more, someone who wants to cover their hair by their own free will e.g. a Muslim is seen as oppressed but those on page 3 who are exploited aren't? Do feminists also think people that wear turbans are oppressed? I always hear them talking about Muslim women but not much about other faiths e.g. Sikhs.
 
 
 
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