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    Show me a justice system that is 100% flawless and will never result in someone being wrongly accused, and I'll be 100% in support of the death penalty
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    (Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC)
    This is revenge rather than justice. Would it really make the family feel better when the killer is dead?
    Nah I'm sure they'll feel much better knowing the killer is free on the streets enjoying his life
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    if we had a magical way of knowing whether people have definitely (and without a single part of doubt) murdered, tortured or committed bank robberies etc, then absolutely in favour. those kinds of people do not deserve their lives.
    What incentive would a bank robber have to keep their witnesses alive if they knew they were going to be executed if caught anyway?
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    (Original post by superdarklord)
    Opinions on the death penalty?

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    bring it back in the UK.
    The UK's criminal justice system is a joke.
    even if its a declining colonial power, this is unacceptable.
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Nah I'm sure they'll feel much better knowing the killer is free on the streets enjoying his life
    How many convicted serial killers do we have walking the streets enjoying their lives?
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    (Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC)
    How many convicted serial killers do we have walking the streets enjoying their lives?
    Serial killers? Perhaps not many, if any

    Murderers in general? Countless. People have been put away for drug possession for longer amounts of time than murderers have
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Show me a justice system that is 100% flawless and will never result in someone being wrongly accused, and I'll be 100% in support of the death penalty
    I'm not quite sure which side you're on. In the USA studies have shown that 4 per cent of those on death row are later found to be innocent. Pretty scary IMO seeing as though any of those 4 per cent who were actually executed have basically been murdered by their own country. The death penalty doesn't exactly save lives does it?
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    (Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC)
    I'm not quite sure which side you're on. In the USA studies have shown that 4 per cent of those on death row are later found to be innocent. Pretty scary IMO seeing as though any of those 4 per cent who were actually executed have basically been murdered by their own country. The death penalty doesn't exactly save lives does it?
    It was a hypothetical. I don't support the death penalty as it stands, as there is obviously no 100% perfect justice system out there. If hypothetically there was, I'd see zero reason why perpetrators of awful crimes shouldn't be permanently and irreversibly removed from society
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Show me a justice system that is 100% flawless and will never result in someone being wrongly accused, and I'll be 100% in support of the death penalty
    I completely see where you're coming from and am somewhat conflicted about the prospect of innocents potentially being executed BUT. Pretty much EVERYONE is accepting of collateral damage in war (and likewise in justice). Most people would support the action taken in going to war against nazi germany even though the act of going to war was always going to result in the deaths of innocent civilians. That was a sacrifice we were willing to make. Likewise with capital punishment. I don't see how the fact that innocent people inevitably dying from this is a good enough argument to ban capital punishment when we are willing to let innocent people die in pretty much anything else.

    Let's take cars for example. Cars are incredibly dangerous and most of the people driving them shouldn't be driving them in a society that ACTUALLY valued life as highly as we claim to. In a society where protecting human life was the ultimate goal cars would only be licensed to a very select few of highly skilled people. But they're not, because despite the incredible loss of life caused by drivers who should not really be driving there are benefits to most people being able to drive them. Same idea with capital punishment.

    Not disagreeing with you per say, just more trying to put this idea into context with everything else we do as a society. As I don't think "Innocents will die" is a good enough reason in and of itself.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    I completely see where you're coming from and am somewhat conflicted about the prospect of innocents potentially being executed BUT. Pretty much EVERYONE is accepting of collateral damage in war (and likewise in justice). Most people would support the action taken in going to war against nazi germany even though the act of going to war was always going to result in the deaths of innocent civilians. That was a sacrifice we were willing to make. Likewise with capital punishment. I don't see how the fact that innocent people inevitably dying from this is a good enough argument to ban capital punishment when we are willing to let innocent people die in pretty much anything else.

    Let's take cars for example. Cars are incredibly dangerous and most of the people driving them shouldn't be driving them in a society that ACTUALLY valued life as highly as we claim to. In a society where protecting human life was the ultimate goal cars would only be licensed to a very select few of highly skilled people. But they're not, because despite the incredible loss of life caused by drivers who should not really be driving there are benefits to most people being able to drive them. Same idea with capital punishment.

    Not disagreeing with you per say, just more trying to put this idea into context with everything else we do as a society. As I don't think "Innocents will die" is a good enough reason in and of itself.
    Nah I don't see that as a reasonable argument, the justification in war (where applicable, not always) is that without the necessary action, there would be far far worse consequences. Ie. when we fought the Nazis, there were many civilians killed, but the alternative (letting the Nazis win) would have been a considerably worse situation for obvious reasons. Thus the regrettable loss of innocent life can be considered justified, though tragic nonetheless

    Death penalty is not an unavoidable measure of which the alternative bears awful consequences, life imprisonment is really just as effective as far as protecting the public goes. The problem of course is that a life sentence often doesn't even result in life imprisonment, and also that often murderers aren't even sentenced to life in the first place, and they receive these absolutely pathetic sentences which make you wonder if the legal system is actually interested in justice or not

    Think about it, if even one innocent person is wrongly killed by an execution, then how is that different to murder, considering the execution was not necessary or unavoidable? Do the judges, lawyers, executioners etc. then deserve the death penalty for killing an innocent person?
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Nah I don't see that as a reasonable argument, the justification in war (where applicable, not always) is that without the necessary action, there would be far far worse consequences. Ie. when we fought the Nazis, there were many civilians killed, but the alternative (letting the Nazis win) would have been a considerably worse situation for obvious reasons. Thus the regrettable loss of innocent life can be considered justified, though tragic nonetheless

    Death penalty is not an unavoidable measure of which the alternative bears awful consequences, life imprisonment is really just as effective as far as protecting the public goes. The problem of course is that a life sentence often doesn't even result in life imprisonment, and also that often murderers aren't even sentenced to life in the first place, and they receive these absolutely pathetic sentences which make you wonder if the legal system is actually interested in justice or not

    Think about it, if even one innocent person is wrongly killed by an execution, then how is that different to murder, considering the execution was not necessary or unavoidable? Do the judges, lawyers, executioners etc. then deserve the death penalty for killing an innocent person?
    Well the argument really assumes that all else being equal the death penalty is the right course of action and that the only reason we're not going for it is because of the potential for innocent deaths. What I'm basically saying is that innocent deaths in and of itself does not make for an argument to be against the death penalty when we consider our universalised view on the death of innocents (bad but an inevitable part of doing what's 'right').
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    (Original post by limetang)
    Well the argument really assumes that all else being equal the death penalty is the right course of action and that the only reason we're not going for it is because of the potential for innocent deaths. What I'm basically saying is that innocent deaths in and of itself does not make for an argument to be against the death penalty when we consider our universalised view on the death of innocents (bad but an inevitable part of doing what's 'right').
    There's no justification for it being "necessary" in the same way collateral damage in an unavoidable war may be necessary. You can protect the public by imprisoning someone for life, which doesn't result in the death of a possibly innocent person
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    (Original post by TheSoulWithin)
    How so? I would say solitary confinement is torture but not just life imprisonment.

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    You are inflicting pain for their entire life without the possibility of freedom. You yourself said that it is worth than death, the only thing worth than death is torture.

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    It should be up to the victims/family of the victim - I don't oppose the death penalty but I think the death penalty is too easy - its an easy escape from 100+ years in jail.

    But to stop criminally insane, it may be necessary..
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    Against it.

    I don't agree with the moral arguments against it like "it makes us as bad as the murderers". There are plenty of scum out there who deserve a death penalty.

    The main problem is there is always the risk of getting the wrong person. Even with all the latest forensic technology, there is always a chance that a person found guilty isn't guilty, and is later found to be innocent - and innocent people could end up executed. Miscarriages of justice are always a possibility, as there is no such thing as a 100% infallible justice system.

    Even if you introduce it only for cases where it is in no doubt at all, there is this risk because once introduced it would end up being used in other cases where there is doubt. Cases like the Woolwich murder where there is no doubt are rare.

    And the amount of time and money it costs because of the appeal process is also a big problem.

    While I oppose the death penalty for those reasons, I am in favour of stricter sentencing for a lot of crimes. And life sentences should mean life.
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    (Original post by Maura Kat)
    bring it back in the UK.
    The UK's criminal justice system is a joke.
    even if its a declining colonial power, this is unacceptable.
    100% agree.

    The amount of rapists/murderers that are allowed to walk the streets again are just ridiculous.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    100% agree.

    The amount of rapists/murderers that are allowed to walk the streets again are just ridiculous.
    It's so barbaric that people think it's acceptable to execute a rapist, it also shows such a poor understanding of the law


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    (Original post by Wade-)
    It's so barbaric that people think it's acceptable to execute a rapist, it also shows such a poor understanding of the law


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    So if there was a person who raped several individuals, and they all ended up dying due to severe injuries, you would be ok with that person walking down your road everyday?

    Is not the actions of a rapist barbaric as well?
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    So if there was a person who raped several individuals, and they all ended up dying due to severe injuries, you would be ok with that person walking down your road everyday?

    Is not the actions of a rapist barbaric as well?
    Well firstly if that happened it becomes murder as well not just rape. No I wouldn't be ok with them walking down my road but I'd be ok knowing they're in prison for a long time.

    It's one thing for an individual to act barbarically but completely different for the state to do so


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    A lot of victim's families go to watch executions but are then traumatised by the experience. They realise that the victim is still dead, that they do not feel and better and that the perp's family have now lost a child too. Indirectly they feel responsible for the perp undergoing what is now quite a gruesome execution experience. None of this is a good thing.
 
 
 
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