I'm Sick Of Reverse Snobbery
I just felt like having a little rant. As a little disclaimer i'll just say that we all know that you can't generalise with absolute precision, but that doesn't mean that grouping people together is an act of futility.
Anyways, I'm sick of all this reverse snobbery bull****. British people feel that they are owed certain things for nothing. A lot of people who end up successful work HARD for that money, then most people feel they should be punished for their success with higher taxes and pay cuts.
In some ways I feel that Victorian values are still the greatest. Obviously people deserve to have their vote and it shouldn't be any other way, but the people don't know what's good for them. It's like letting a child into a sweet shop. I don't want to turn this into a political bashing, but Labour in particular seem to throw out all of these 'fair' sounding ideals that the people eat up right away, but little do they know that it's not actually a good thing. Every time I see one of these newspaper reports about top management being punished or executives receiving pay cuts it makes me rage a little. The fact is, people love to hear that their bosses are being called out for whatever reason.
Now I come from a fairly working class background and I detest nothing more than hearing of this whole 'local lad' propaganda that accompany's the whole 'hate the rich person' attitude. I think people in England are spoiled and they're acting up over nothing much. I love that our government has an NHS and I greatly appreciate it, but everybody else seems to think that they deserve it. Nobody seems grateful. The way I see it, at this point in life I have contributed nothing to my country, yet I'm allowed free healthcare and education, not to mention countless opportunities that could see me working almost anywhere I want. How? Because the government gave me education and even a student loan to ensure that I study what I want. So the government decides to make some national cuts in order to save money and people go nuts and start protesting? Are we forgetting that our government has done this in the best interests of our nation? Now I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but we appear to have one of the least corrupt governments in the world, yet people bang on about how the 'rich bastards' are suffocating them. The whole expenses scandal is pathetic when you consider the reality of corrupt governments.
In World War II Winston Churchill spent a lot of public tax money taking holidays with Roosevelt. These expensive holidays cemented a tight relationship between the leaders and America worked with us to win the war. If that happened these days people would be in uproar that they have to pay 2p towards other people having fun, regardless of how important it really is.
Also, people are quite happy to blame the recession on the 'greedy bankers' but have failed to mention that buying TV's and phones with credit cards could have had some effect. People now have to pay for the reckless lifestyles they've had, but they can't seem to admit that they haven't helped the situation.
Not everybody has an easy situation, but there have been opportunities for British people for quite some time. If they really wanted to make something of themselves then they could have simply achieved in school and gone on to higher education (though not necessary for some), there haven't been any massive barriers for success, but now those people who didn't take the opportunities are getting mad at the people who have been successful and they call for pay cuts etc. If people don't think that they have opportunities available to them then they should compare the UK to the rest of the world. Even Americans have doors closed because if you don't have money you can't get so far. In England, university is affordable and as we have (up until now) been paying ridiculously low fees and our universities have consequently struggled to compete with the likes of American institutions who have seemingly unlimited funds; not that money is everything, but it helps. Now we have raised fees and yet again people are going nuts, despite the fact that almost anybody can get a student loan.
I just don't get it. It's like everybody grows up and just expects handouts. It's a hard world yet you don't even have to fight for survival anymore, but those who fight hard can reap bigger rewards. Those who don't fight at all receive very little and then complain about the one's who did make something of themselves. I think the typical 'rich bastard' argument is outdated; sure, a long time ago people were trapped and couldn't better themselves, whilst the rich stayed rich, but those days are gone. The upper class don't have money anymore, the working class don't have money either and the 'middle class' do (though class isn't defined by money). Why? Because opportunities aren't just limited to a handful of families, the rich have worked hard to make sure that they are valuable, and they earn a lot of money as a consequence. Those who haven't worked hard may have come up with a truly genius idea that substitutes hard work. It's always the cool kids at the back of class playing with their iPod that missed the boat and are now teaching their children to hate 'rich scum'.
This probably won't account for the majority of the TSR population, but i'm sure some people may understand what I mean. I'm expecting that i'll get some hate in this thread. Anyway, i'm off to the gym!
Anyways, I'm sick of all this reverse snobbery bull****. British people feel that they are owed certain things for nothing. A lot of people who end up successful work HARD for that money, then most people feel they should be punished for their success with higher taxes and pay cuts.
In some ways I feel that Victorian values are still the greatest. Obviously people deserve to have their vote and it shouldn't be any other way, but the people don't know what's good for them. It's like letting a child into a sweet shop. I don't want to turn this into a political bashing, but Labour in particular seem to throw out all of these 'fair' sounding ideals that the people eat up right away, but little do they know that it's not actually a good thing. Every time I see one of these newspaper reports about top management being punished or executives receiving pay cuts it makes me rage a little. The fact is, people love to hear that their bosses are being called out for whatever reason.
Now I come from a fairly working class background and I detest nothing more than hearing of this whole 'local lad' propaganda that accompany's the whole 'hate the rich person' attitude. I think people in England are spoiled and they're acting up over nothing much. I love that our government has an NHS and I greatly appreciate it, but everybody else seems to think that they deserve it. Nobody seems grateful. The way I see it, at this point in life I have contributed nothing to my country, yet I'm allowed free healthcare and education, not to mention countless opportunities that could see me working almost anywhere I want. How? Because the government gave me education and even a student loan to ensure that I study what I want. So the government decides to make some national cuts in order to save money and people go nuts and start protesting? Are we forgetting that our government has done this in the best interests of our nation? Now I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but we appear to have one of the least corrupt governments in the world, yet people bang on about how the 'rich bastards' are suffocating them. The whole expenses scandal is pathetic when you consider the reality of corrupt governments.
In World War II Winston Churchill spent a lot of public tax money taking holidays with Roosevelt. These expensive holidays cemented a tight relationship between the leaders and America worked with us to win the war. If that happened these days people would be in uproar that they have to pay 2p towards other people having fun, regardless of how important it really is.
Also, people are quite happy to blame the recession on the 'greedy bankers' but have failed to mention that buying TV's and phones with credit cards could have had some effect. People now have to pay for the reckless lifestyles they've had, but they can't seem to admit that they haven't helped the situation.
Not everybody has an easy situation, but there have been opportunities for British people for quite some time. If they really wanted to make something of themselves then they could have simply achieved in school and gone on to higher education (though not necessary for some), there haven't been any massive barriers for success, but now those people who didn't take the opportunities are getting mad at the people who have been successful and they call for pay cuts etc. If people don't think that they have opportunities available to them then they should compare the UK to the rest of the world. Even Americans have doors closed because if you don't have money you can't get so far. In England, university is affordable and as we have (up until now) been paying ridiculously low fees and our universities have consequently struggled to compete with the likes of American institutions who have seemingly unlimited funds; not that money is everything, but it helps. Now we have raised fees and yet again people are going nuts, despite the fact that almost anybody can get a student loan.
I just don't get it. It's like everybody grows up and just expects handouts. It's a hard world yet you don't even have to fight for survival anymore, but those who fight hard can reap bigger rewards. Those who don't fight at all receive very little and then complain about the one's who did make something of themselves. I think the typical 'rich bastard' argument is outdated; sure, a long time ago people were trapped and couldn't better themselves, whilst the rich stayed rich, but those days are gone. The upper class don't have money anymore, the working class don't have money either and the 'middle class' do (though class isn't defined by money). Why? Because opportunities aren't just limited to a handful of families, the rich have worked hard to make sure that they are valuable, and they earn a lot of money as a consequence. Those who haven't worked hard may have come up with a truly genius idea that substitutes hard work. It's always the cool kids at the back of class playing with their iPod that missed the boat and are now teaching their children to hate 'rich scum'.
This probably won't account for the majority of the TSR population, but i'm sure some people may understand what I mean. I'm expecting that i'll get some hate in this thread. Anyway, i'm off to the gym!
Scroll to see replies
I've already expressed my views on the whole 'despising the rich for no apparent reason' mindset that seems to plague the majority of persons in other threads on similar topics, and I agree with a lot of what you say.
My parents are those kind of 'blah blah bankers, so-and-so got a golden handshake' etc, and it makes me facepalm every time.
My parents are those kind of 'blah blah bankers, so-and-so got a golden handshake' etc, and it makes me facepalm every time.
Original post by philistine
I've already expressed my views on the whole 'despising the rich for no apparent reason' mindset that seems to plague the majority of persons in other threads on similar topics, and I agree with a lot of what you say.
My parents are those kind of 'blah blah bankers, so-and-so got a golden handshake' etc, and it makes me facepalm every time.
My parents are those kind of 'blah blah bankers, so-and-so got a golden handshake' etc, and it makes me facepalm every time.
Haha your parents might get along with mine. I remember around election time when my mum was saying how she doesn't know who to trust anymore (in reference to expense scandal) and my brother and I just shook our heads. I don't really care if my local MP likes to get drunk with trannsexual hookers on public money if he does a good job and improves the area.
Original post by Arteta
Anyways, I'm sick of all this reverse snobbery bull****. British people feel that they are owed certain things for nothing. A lot of people who end up successful work HARD for that money, then most people feel they should be punished for their success with higher taxes and pay cuts.
Us average folk like to believe that the majority of the wealthy are the undeserving. They either inherited it or lied and cheated to acquire it. We then have to believe that the ones who actually achieved wealth by their own merit are the exceptions. Without this belief social policies would be undeniably detestable. I tend to believe the opposite. I truly think that most of the wealthy are the small business men who have taken considerable chances in their lives and worked hard. The corrupt bankers and trust fund billionaires are a much noticed minority. My judgement may be wrong, but at least my mistake would be based in a misconception, and not a desire to improve my own lot in life.
These same people go on about 'class inequality' or protest about it.
None of these so called 'poor people' are starving and homeless, none have to live with the worry of not being able to pay if they get ill or get some disease - they are basically just jealous because there are people out their who, either by luck, virtue of hard work, or inheritence, have more money than them, and think they should be punished accordingly because of that.
In this country pretty much the only divide between the rich and poor is material things (phones, fancy houses, cars, holidays etc.) which for some reason people believe they are entitled to.
That recent BBC article about a family who live on £40k a year, thats two below average wage earners, they were saying how 'after 3 package holidays a year and a new car every 2-3 years money can get tight'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15197860
If you want to see real class inequality, I suggest you visit Russia, or India, or China, or the USA, or just about every other country on the planet apart from the UK.
None of these so called 'poor people' are starving and homeless, none have to live with the worry of not being able to pay if they get ill or get some disease - they are basically just jealous because there are people out their who, either by luck, virtue of hard work, or inheritence, have more money than them, and think they should be punished accordingly because of that.
In this country pretty much the only divide between the rich and poor is material things (phones, fancy houses, cars, holidays etc.) which for some reason people believe they are entitled to.
That recent BBC article about a family who live on £40k a year, thats two below average wage earners, they were saying how 'after 3 package holidays a year and a new car every 2-3 years money can get tight'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15197860
If you want to see real class inequality, I suggest you visit Russia, or India, or China, or the USA, or just about every other country on the planet apart from the UK.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Arteta
Haha your parents might get along with mine. I remember around election time when my mum was saying how she doesn't know who to trust anymore (in reference to expense scandal) and my brother and I just shook our heads. I don't really care if my local MP likes to get drunk with trannsexual hookers on public money if he does a good job and improves the area.
This.
MP's expenses are a fraction of a drop in the ocean when it comes to this countries' money; if the guy needs a little relaxation to do a better drop why not?
Of course they should be published online somewhere so people can make their own mind up as to whether or not they are worth it.
OP:
people always run on about some kind of middle class snobbery, when in fact it's people at the bottom who really seem to care about class (like Alan Sugar, and how his background is what makes him awesome).
(edited 12 years ago)
i agree with a few aspeects of your opinion that you reap what you sow but there are lots of flaws in your argument.....
i hpe some one highlights them as im of to do my assignment :O
i hpe some one highlights them as im of to do my assignment :O
Original post by Square
That recent BBC article about a family who live on £40k a year, thats two below average wage earners, they were saying how 'after 3 package holidays a year and a new car every 2-3 years money can get tight'.
That recent BBC article about a family who live on £40k a year, thats two below average wage earners, they were saying how 'after 3 package holidays a year and a new car every 2-3 years money can get tight'.
You do realise that most people who complain about inequality and such in this country earn no where near £40k a year?
Yeah, fair enough, but when the majority of the country are paying for the mess that bankers and politicians got us into, you can't blame people who do reverse snobbery...
Taxpayers have paid for bankers and politicians to mess up the economy basically, because they still get their nice salaries, whereas the bottom line feel the full force.
And these occupations are usually associated with snobs and the upper, certainly the middle-upperclass.
If the affects were dispersed equally according to their income, and everyone pulled together accordingly, then I'm sure those at the bottom wouldn't have a problem. However, is everyone paying the same price? No, they aren't, hence people will be envious, jealous and annoyed at how people get off scotch free, when they're the ones who caused the mess. It wasn't your average cleaner, nurse or bin man. It was your banker, financial adviser and MP.
People generalise because it is very easy to do so, it may be wrong, but why shouldn't they vent their anger at the higher classes, they caused most of these problems.
Taxpayers have paid for bankers and politicians to mess up the economy basically, because they still get their nice salaries, whereas the bottom line feel the full force.
And these occupations are usually associated with snobs and the upper, certainly the middle-upperclass.
If the affects were dispersed equally according to their income, and everyone pulled together accordingly, then I'm sure those at the bottom wouldn't have a problem. However, is everyone paying the same price? No, they aren't, hence people will be envious, jealous and annoyed at how people get off scotch free, when they're the ones who caused the mess. It wasn't your average cleaner, nurse or bin man. It was your banker, financial adviser and MP.
People generalise because it is very easy to do so, it may be wrong, but why shouldn't they vent their anger at the higher classes, they caused most of these problems.
Original post by srascal8
Yeah, fair enough, but when the majority of the country are paying for the mess that bankers and politicians got us into, you can't blame people who do reverse snobbery...
Taxpayers have paid for bankers and politicians to mess up the economy basically, because they still get their nice salaries, whereas the bottom line feel the full force.
And these occupations are usually associated with snobs and the upper, certainly the middle-upperclass.
If the affects were dispersed equally according to their income, and everyone pulled together accordingly, then I'm sure those at the bottom wouldn't have a problem. However, is everyone paying the same price? No, they aren't, hence people will be envious, jealous and annoyed at how people get off scotch free, when they're the ones who caused the mess. It wasn't your average cleaner, nurse or bin man. It was your banker, financial adviser and MP.
People generalise because it is very easy to do so, it may be wrong, but why shouldn't they vent their anger at the higher classes, they caused most of these problems.
Taxpayers have paid for bankers and politicians to mess up the economy basically, because they still get their nice salaries, whereas the bottom line feel the full force.
And these occupations are usually associated with snobs and the upper, certainly the middle-upperclass.
If the affects were dispersed equally according to their income, and everyone pulled together accordingly, then I'm sure those at the bottom wouldn't have a problem. However, is everyone paying the same price? No, they aren't, hence people will be envious, jealous and annoyed at how people get off scotch free, when they're the ones who caused the mess. It wasn't your average cleaner, nurse or bin man. It was your banker, financial adviser and MP.
People generalise because it is very easy to do so, it may be wrong, but why shouldn't they vent their anger at the higher classes, they caused most of these problems.
The banks have paid more in tax than the cost of the bailout, whereas the government makes a loss on even most middle class people..
Agreed. I especially hate when I hear people calling others "spoilt" as if this was some sort of pejorative. People can't help if they're born into wealthy families and therefore have money for expenditures that others don't. As far as that person is not rotten, or believes that they're better than others simply because they have money, I don't see why they should be judged due to an accident of birth. You don't choose the wealth of the family you're born into. Moreover, some people actually work really hard for their money; they should not be made to feel guilty for spending their earned wealth. If others work to get ahead or even if they were born into a wealthy family, you don't get to blame them for your shortcomings. They've done nothing wrong. That said, I hate snobbery too; both are equally distasteful.
Original post by PendulumBoB
The banks have paid more in tax than the cost of the bailout, whereas the government makes a loss on even most middle class people..
Yeah, well they're a business so of course they're gonna pay bloody tax! More to the point, these casino bankers have caused an inconvenience for 85% of society, that's why they need to be divided into retail and investment banking divisions. They can only play with the money they make, not the money ordinary citizens depend on, then, when they fail, they'll end up like Lehmann Brothers; they won't be bailed out.
I agree. Maybe we should go back to laissez-faire of the 19th century.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Arteta
This probably won't account for the majority of the TSR population, but i'm sure some people may understand what I mean. I'm expecting that i'll get some hate in this thread. Anyway, i'm off to the gym!
My sir, i am out of green thumbs to give but i wanted to let you know that i read your post and enjoyed it.
Wow, I expected to come back to lots of hate! Thanks TSR for reading; I just felt like I was the only one with this opinion, but i'm glad to see that i'm not.
I just think that many people want equality so much that they're pretty much expecting communism. I mean what's next? Should people get free houses? a car? I think that very few realise that humans (at least of our kind) have been around for about 50,000 years. I'd say that the majority of people have been living fairly comfortable since maybe the early 1990's? (I don't know much about this topic ; feel free to correct me) and that's only in the UK; I'm too lazy for the maths but there are 62 million people in the UK and 7 billion in the world, which means we're a privileged few, now compare that to the last 50,000 of human history and then look at the people who are angry because service X isn't available for free on the NHS. I guess they don't have a clear understanding of how the world works, including the very basic concept of supply and demand; let's face it, an oncologist is more valuable in this country than a builder, and I have nothing against a builder, but they should at least understand why that oncologist may be on double or triple their wage, thus acquire more expenditure.
I just think that many people want equality so much that they're pretty much expecting communism. I mean what's next? Should people get free houses? a car? I think that very few realise that humans (at least of our kind) have been around for about 50,000 years. I'd say that the majority of people have been living fairly comfortable since maybe the early 1990's? (I don't know much about this topic ; feel free to correct me) and that's only in the UK; I'm too lazy for the maths but there are 62 million people in the UK and 7 billion in the world, which means we're a privileged few, now compare that to the last 50,000 of human history and then look at the people who are angry because service X isn't available for free on the NHS. I guess they don't have a clear understanding of how the world works, including the very basic concept of supply and demand; let's face it, an oncologist is more valuable in this country than a builder, and I have nothing against a builder, but they should at least understand why that oncologist may be on double or triple their wage, thus acquire more expenditure.
Original post by Arteta
Wow, I expected to come back to lots of hate! Thanks TSR for reading; I just felt like I was the only one with this opinion, but i'm glad to see that i'm not.
I just think that many people want equality so much that they're pretty much expecting communism. I mean what's next? Should people get free houses? a car? I think that very few realise that humans (at least of our kind) have been around for about 50,000 years. I'd say that the majority of people have been living fairly comfortable since maybe the early 1990's? (I don't know much about this topic ; feel free to correct me) and that's only in the UK; I'm too lazy for the maths but there are 62 million people in the UK and 7 billion in the world, which means we're a privileged few, now compare that to the last 50,000 of human history and then look at the people who are angry because service X isn't available for free on the NHS. I guess they don't have a clear understanding of how the world works, including the very basic concept of supply and demand; let's face it, an oncologist is more valuable in this country than a builder, and I have nothing against a builder, but they should at least understand why that oncologist may be on double or triple their wage, thus acquire more expenditure.
I just think that many people want equality so much that they're pretty much expecting communism. I mean what's next? Should people get free houses? a car? I think that very few realise that humans (at least of our kind) have been around for about 50,000 years. I'd say that the majority of people have been living fairly comfortable since maybe the early 1990's? (I don't know much about this topic ; feel free to correct me) and that's only in the UK; I'm too lazy for the maths but there are 62 million people in the UK and 7 billion in the world, which means we're a privileged few, now compare that to the last 50,000 of human history and then look at the people who are angry because service X isn't available for free on the NHS. I guess they don't have a clear understanding of how the world works, including the very basic concept of supply and demand; let's face it, an oncologist is more valuable in this country than a builder, and I have nothing against a builder, but they should at least understand why that oncologist may be on double or triple their wage, thus acquire more expenditure.
I agree, people in this country are relying on the state to mother them and expect the state to look after them. It also angers me when people complain about their wages saying they are too low and are being treated unfairly. This is simply untrue, even the people who live in poverty are rich when compared to many LEDC's. Society needs to learn that if they want a better life, they should individually work HARD for it. Not rely on the state to look after them.
Original post by the mezzil
I agree, people in this country are relying on the state to mother them and expect the state to look after them. It also angers me when people complain about their wages saying they are too low and are being treated unfairly. This is simply untrue, even the people who live in poverty are rich when compared to many LEDC's. Society needs to learn that if they want a better life, they should individually work HARD for it. Not rely on the state to look after them.
Yes, i agree. Unfortunately I don't think Mr. Cameron (or any that follow) can teach this to the public, because they'll be disliked and never voted in again.
Like I said in the OP, it's obviously great that people can vote, but at the same time they don't know what's good for themselves. I think one of the biggest problems is the media, who for their own marketing tactics like to piss the people off and allow them to moan. I really wish they weren't so greedy and took on a role of responsibility, only publishing articles that are fair, or at least not biased enough to persuade somebody's opinion. It's a sad world when the newspapers hold the balls of the leaders of the country.
(edited 12 years ago)
My $0.02...
People will vote for anything that makes themselves better off. Sure you get your outliers, like your philanthropic millionaires such as Alan Sugar and JK Rowling(both of whom I respect a lot) and working class people who place more value in social politics than economics(ie the "kick all dey imgruntz that taken owr jobz" brigade)
But in general people will vote for and support the party that will put more money in their pocket.
And that's why most working class folks will support sky high taxes on the super rich.
People will vote for anything that makes themselves better off. Sure you get your outliers, like your philanthropic millionaires such as Alan Sugar and JK Rowling(both of whom I respect a lot) and working class people who place more value in social politics than economics(ie the "kick all dey imgruntz that taken owr jobz" brigade)
But in general people will vote for and support the party that will put more money in their pocket.
And that's why most working class folks will support sky high taxes on the super rich.
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