Feminism!

I have never heard a feminism say that women shouldn't have to fight on the front line. This against it are usually men who think it is impossible for men to be professional if there is a woman around and use the argument that men will try to save the women, she will be raped or it will ruin 'morale'. They see the army as a male-only arena and are unhappy with the idea that a woman may be able to perform the same duties.

There are many different strands of feminism. Perhaps some veer into 'man hating', but it is not common and it is not representative of feminism as a movement. I have never met a feminist who thinks that women should have a privileged position in society due to past oppressions. I am inclined to think that most of the stories that people come out with about women who want to strip power from men and keep it for themselves are made up to discredit feminism by men who are threatened by the idea of women having equal rights to them. Increasingly women are using this as a way to disregard the feminism movement as those of us who do identify as feminists have our views mocked and are not taken seriously.

Women shouldn't fight on the front line was mentioned somewhere in the first few pages, I'm not too sure where though, sorry :/
I agree that not all feminists are man hating. I consider myself a feminist in that I believe that men and women should be treated equally, however I would never be so presumptious to say that women are better then men. I think that there are plenty of people who do mock feminists which I think is highly wrong. However when a feminist says ''All heterosexual intercourse is rape'' then you can't blame people for taking the p***

I have never heard a feminism say that women shouldn't have to fight on the front line. This against it are usually men who think it is impossible for men to be professional if there is a woman around and use the argument that men will try to save the women, she will be raped or it will ruin 'morale'. They see the army as a male-only arena and are unhappy with the idea that a woman may be able to perform the same duties.

There are many different strands of feminism. Perhaps some veer into 'man hating', but it is not common and it is not representative of feminism as a movement. I have never met a feminist who thinks that women should have a privileged position in society due to past oppressions. I am inclined to think that most of the stories that people come out with about women who want to strip power from men and keep it for themselves are made up to discredit feminism by men who are threatened by the idea of women having equal rights to them. Increasingly women are using this as a way to disregard the feminism movement as those of us who do identify as feminists have our views mocked and are not taken seriously.

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have
a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the ****work that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin

"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men."
-- Sharon Stone; Actress

"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo." -- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex." -- Valerie Solana, SCUM founder (Society for Cutting Up Men.)

"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

"In my own life, I don't have intercourse. That is my choice." -- Andrea Dworkin

Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin

"To be rapeable, a position that is social, not biological, defines what a woman is." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Q: People think you are very hostile to men. A: I am." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Men use the night to erase us." -- Andrea Dworkin

"The annihilation of a woman's personality, individuality, will, character, is prerequisite to male sexuality." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Men love death. In everything they make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it 'Her'. Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson

"Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller; Authoress of Against Our Will p.6

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression." -- Sheila Jeffrys

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon

"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs." -- Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.)

"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." -- Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.

"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo." -- Jodie Foster; Actress

This is actually sick and twisted. Funny, though, how there are loads of quotes there and yet only a few people who have said them. They need to be put in a mental health institution, seriously, seeing a man battered to a pulp with a high heel shoved in his mouth? ****ing disgusting.

Ever wonder why you never hear feminists campaign for fatherhood rights, which are loaded against men at the moment? It's because they're not interested in men at any sort of operational level. They're not interested in equality, except where the system is inequitable to women.

I'm a "Feminist", and I do.

Not all feminists do. I suspect you are very much in the minority. Which is fine, if they drop the nonsense about equality. If equality is your goal, why would you pick a divisive name?

By the way, I've never seen anyone "ever" campaigning for fatherhood rights under the banner of "feminism"

But I'm sure you'll prove me wrong with plenty of sources.

Ever wonder why you never hear feminists campaign for fatherhood rights, which are loaded against men at the moment? It's because they're not interested in men at any sort of operational level. They're not interested in equality, except where the system is inequitable to women.

I am all for equality, but I think the word 'feminism' may be interpreted as being a sexist word... If a male group called themselves 'masculinists', would this be seen as acceptable? This may be a personal thing, and I am honestly not arguing with anyone or anything, but isn't something like 'advocate for women's equality' better?

Ever wonder why you never hear feminists campaign for fatherhood rights, which are loaded against men at the moment? It's because they're not interested in men at any sort of operational level. They're not interested in equality, except where the system is inequitable to women.

i'm only just reading the first couple of pages of posts but if this hasn't already been said....

girls do actually do better than boys in school at every single level. primary school, gcse, a level, AND university. and i believe the factors that contribute to this are cultural. so girls are actually more intelligent (when it comes to exams anyway). and an argument of feminism would be that girls do better than boys at every level in school but men still occupy most of the highest positions in society. that isn't fair surely?

source is that i'm a sociology student.

i'm only just reading the first couple of pages of posts but if this hasn't already been said....

girls do actually do better than boys in school at every single level. primary school, gcse, a level, AND university. and i believe the factors that contribute to this are cultural. so girls are actually more intelligent (when it comes to exams anyway). and an argument of feminism would be that girls do better than boys at every level in school but men still occupy most of the highest positions in society. that isn't fair surely?

source is that i'm a sociology student.

I have heard that argument before - i'm afraid it's one of those standard ghosters wheeled out by the media. It's also nonsensical.

If you compare like for like data sets then women are doing better than men. For example, in the 18-25 age bracket women are somewhere in the region of twice as likely (I'm afraid I can't remember the exact statistics) to be in employment and around three times as likely to be in a supervisory role when compared to males of the same age.

This age group has had "equal" opportunities and women are out performing men.

The "highest" positions in society tend to be occupied by people in their 50's or 60's. These people did not have equal opportunities in education. These changes take generations to filter through - education is only the preperation for working one's way to the top; nobody jumps straight in at that level.


(There are also issues with adjustments to the curriculum in some areas. For example, in the 1990's the SQA atracted criticism because girls were failing physics left right and centre. They changed the structure of the physics course, and now the pass rate is more even. However subsequent research has revealed the new structure favours the way girls learn and puts boys at a disadvantage. Generally speaking boys tend to perform at a high level over a restricted field whilst girls tend to do better with a broad base of learning. If you structure the curriculum to cover a broad base of topics you impose a gender preference upon the education system.)

ah ok, i think you best write to all the exam boards telling them their specifications are wrong and that they don't know what they're talking about then

i don't really care about this issue too much. it's not why i'm a feminist, i don't fight for this cause. but when hiring someone for a managerial role or something higher, the employer would be stupid to not consider time off for child birth, the issue of having to get someone else to do the job during maternity leave, women having to have time off when their children are sick (because most women earn less than their partner so it's less harmful for them to take the day off) etc. etc. so they've done better at school and got better qualifications but maybe it's just easier to give the slightly less intelligent male the job. (generally speaking, not all women are smarter than men so please don't assume that's what i'm saying)

p.s. since when was a supervisor role a top job in society..?

Does this prove that girls are smarter or that they work harder at school?

From my experience Girls tend to be the harder workers at School and University and boys tend to slack off a little. This I think changes once in the work place where level of effort tends to even out.

I plan to, it's why i'm pursuing a PhD in Gender theory

I recognise that supervisor isn't a top job in society, however it is solid statistical evidence that women who are operating on an otherwise even footing are pushing ahead of males in terms of performance (insofar as that, although all other things are equal women are more likely to both have a job and get promoted within the jobs they have).

Unlike the statistics quoted which compare things which are unequal (i.e. men and women who were educated differently). Give it 40 years and if the situation remains unchanged then we can legitimately claim that despite performing better in schools women are not fairly represented. Based on school leaver results 40 years ago, however, women are in fact quite fairly represented at that level of business.

I'm not saying that gender doesn't affect employment (quite the opposite) I am saying that it's important to be able to evaluate evidence effectively if we want to achieve equality.