Why is it fair for people with money to get a better education than me?
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This is such an interesting question.
My family sent my brother to private school and not me. I experience first hand the difference in our lives. I know before he even takes his gcses that he will almost certainly get A's and A*s. It's because the opportunity, standard and education provided by private schools is certainly very very high. But of course it is, my parents pay like 10 grand a year for his school, they physically won't let him get a 'C' grade which is like an insult at his school. (LOL)
I went to a crap school and everyday I can just see he will go from there, to sixth form, to cambridge/oxford and it's been such an easy glide for him. He has no idea of actually struggling to achieve anything because his teachers are ready to do anything for him to get the grades.
I have average gcses, my a level predicted grades are AAB which is good. But I know no matter what I do I will never achieve what he has yet I can tell you right now i work twice as hard.
We are in the same family, same house, yet our futures and life couldn't be more different just because of money.
Of course I think it's highly unfair- money has bought my brother a better future. And I can tell you right now, he's actually not even amazingly smart. He was at a state school for a couple years when he was younger, and he was no where near the top of the class.
I accept that injustice is everywhere, but I'm just sharing my account of it to add to this discussion.
But of course, all the time, I wish that opportunity had been provided to me. Money is buying him a very bright future.
And everyone can say oh stop moaning just work harder.... if that was the case then there would be no bloody need for private schooling
My family sent my brother to private school and not me. I experience first hand the difference in our lives. I know before he even takes his gcses that he will almost certainly get A's and A*s. It's because the opportunity, standard and education provided by private schools is certainly very very high. But of course it is, my parents pay like 10 grand a year for his school, they physically won't let him get a 'C' grade which is like an insult at his school. (LOL)
I went to a crap school and everyday I can just see he will go from there, to sixth form, to cambridge/oxford and it's been such an easy glide for him. He has no idea of actually struggling to achieve anything because his teachers are ready to do anything for him to get the grades.
I have average gcses, my a level predicted grades are AAB which is good. But I know no matter what I do I will never achieve what he has yet I can tell you right now i work twice as hard.
We are in the same family, same house, yet our futures and life couldn't be more different just because of money.
Of course I think it's highly unfair- money has bought my brother a better future. And I can tell you right now, he's actually not even amazingly smart. He was at a state school for a couple years when he was younger, and he was no where near the top of the class.
I accept that injustice is everywhere, but I'm just sharing my account of it to add to this discussion.
But of course, all the time, I wish that opportunity had been provided to me. Money is buying him a very bright future.
And everyone can say oh stop moaning just work harder.... if that was the case then there would be no bloody need for private schooling
Original post by Roaroaroar
Sorry again, this is wrong. http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/mar/02/grammar-school-improve-social-mobility
Er, no it isn't, check your source.
The Guardian
However, across the sample, the advantages of going to a grammar school were cancelled out by the social disadvantages experienced by those who went to secondary moderns. These adults did not have a different social class or earning power to their fathers.
Essentially what it is saying is that there were many working class kids who went to Grammars, but it was 'cancelled out' by the piss poor quality of secondary moderns. Therefore, it makes sense that grammars still exist and to improve the standard of comprehensives.
One of the arguments I've heard was that if you ban private schools, rich parents will invest more into the state-schools.
Except that won't happen.
What will happen is that rich parents will cluster around certain schools that have the standards and facilities that I outlined in my first post, both for the social segregation (Which is important to them) and the high levels of expectancy amongst the pupils and atmosphere. The really rich parents will send their kids abroad (as many of my friends have been). You will also rob the people who DO have scholarships of the most top class education money can buy. There is absolutely NO proof that this would occur, rich parents are well aware that education is a competition for the top grades and by extension, the top jobs. They wan tto give THEIR children every advantage, not other peoples children
In addition, the state school system would collapse as currently the surplus value generated by parents paying taxes for schools but not then using that service amounts to larger pupil spending per head in state schools.
I don't think people who go to private schools have to worry about disruptive pupils from lower socioeconomic backgrounds if they're forced to attend state schools. After all, most private school pupil live in middle class + post codes hence will likely end up in a state-school that's filled with people from their area.
Well derp you merely create a system with more weaknesses and less strengths by banning Private schools then. You will also destroy the standards of these Private schools, a state school could not maintain the facilities of my school, it would be grossly 'unfair' to other state schools if it did anyway.
Original post by Ocassus
z
I can't make out.. are you for private schools or against?
Original post by millie-rose
This is such an interesting question.
My family sent my brother to private school and not me. I experience first hand the difference in our lives. I know before he even takes his gcses that he will almost certainly get A's and A*s. It's because the opportunity, standard and education provided by private schools is certainly very very high. But of course it is, my parents pay like 10 grand a year for his school, they physically won't let him get a 'C' grade which is like an insult at his school. (LOL)
I went to a crap school and everyday I can just see he will go from there, to sixth form, to cambridge/oxford and it's been such an easy glide for him. He has no idea of actually struggling to achieve anything because his teachers are ready to do anything for him to get the grades.
I have average gcses, my a level predicted grades are AAB which is good. But I know no matter what I do I will never achieve what he has yet I can tell you right now i work twice as hard.
We are in the same family, same house, yet our futures and life couldn't be more different just because of money.
Of course I think it's highly unfair- money has bought my brother a better future. And I can tell you right now, he's actually not even amazingly smart. He was at a state school for a couple years when he was younger, and he was no where near the top of the class.
I accept that injustice is everywhere, but I'm just sharing my account of it to add to this discussion.
But of course, all the time, I wish that opportunity had been provided to me. Money is buying him a very bright future.
And everyone can say oh stop moaning just work harder.... if that was the case then there would be no bloody need for private schooling
My family sent my brother to private school and not me. I experience first hand the difference in our lives. I know before he even takes his gcses that he will almost certainly get A's and A*s. It's because the opportunity, standard and education provided by private schools is certainly very very high. But of course it is, my parents pay like 10 grand a year for his school, they physically won't let him get a 'C' grade which is like an insult at his school. (LOL)
I went to a crap school and everyday I can just see he will go from there, to sixth form, to cambridge/oxford and it's been such an easy glide for him. He has no idea of actually struggling to achieve anything because his teachers are ready to do anything for him to get the grades.
I have average gcses, my a level predicted grades are AAB which is good. But I know no matter what I do I will never achieve what he has yet I can tell you right now i work twice as hard.
We are in the same family, same house, yet our futures and life couldn't be more different just because of money.
Of course I think it's highly unfair- money has bought my brother a better future. And I can tell you right now, he's actually not even amazingly smart. He was at a state school for a couple years when he was younger, and he was no where near the top of the class.
I accept that injustice is everywhere, but I'm just sharing my account of it to add to this discussion.
But of course, all the time, I wish that opportunity had been provided to me. Money is buying him a very bright future.
And everyone can say oh stop moaning just work harder.... if that was the case then there would be no bloody need for private schooling
This is such an interesting post, rich in validity. You and your brother would have both been socialised almost equally, the only key difference would be the types of schools you went to which as we can see has created a huge gap between the qualifications you've both received.
Out of interest.. how do you feel to have gone to a state school and your brother a private school?
P.S. The point in bold.. good point.
Original post by Miracle Day
I can't make out.. are you for private schools or against?
This is such an interesting post, rich in validity. You and your brother would have both been socialised almost equally, the only key difference would be the types of schools you went to which as we can see has created a huge gap between the qualifications you've both received.
Out of interest.. how do you feel to have gone to a state school and your brother a private school?
P.S. The point in bold.. good point.
This is such an interesting post, rich in validity. You and your brother would have both been socialised almost equally, the only key difference would be the types of schools you went to which as we can see has created a huge gap between the qualifications you've both received.
Out of interest.. how do you feel to have gone to a state school and your brother a private school?
P.S. The point in bold.. good point.
For the third time, that is poor comprehension. You have a habit of nitpicking what posts you reply to, leaving out those that highlight you pulling information out of your backside.
Original post by Mendeleev's Table
For the third time, that is poor comprehension. You have a habit of nitpicking what posts you reply to, leaving out those that highlight you pulling information out of your backside.
Really? She's said it herself.
And I don't think Nick Clegg would go against private schools and pull those statistics out of his 'backside'
Original post by Miracle Day
Really? She's said it herself.
And I don't think Nick Clegg would go against private schools and pull those statistics out of his 'backside'
And I don't think Nick Clegg would go against private schools and pull those statistics out of his 'backside'
And if a murderer said that they didn't mean to kill somebody, you would believe them straight away?
Putting aside that Nick Clegg is a twit I have some things about that:
1. Just because xyz allegedly came out of his mouth, what makes the fact it came out his mouth relevant?
2. I addressed your awful comprehension of the stats in the OP a while a go. You, quite conveniently did not reply
3. Banning private schools will solve little more than nothing, and only create more problems
Original post by Drewski
It's human nature.
Some kids are predisposed to illnesses because of their birth.
Some kids are predisposed to illnesses because of their birth.
yeah, **** happens. we definitely shouldn't try to prevent that, or, in the event it occurs, provide for them so that their future isn't defined by their disability. EG: building a ramp so someone in a wheelchair can get into the same building as someone without.
Original post by Miracle Day
The title is more of a crowd drawer than my actual opinion, I'm still undecided on the 'private school issue' but I'm prepared to swing either way so convince me otherwise TSR.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinions or situations e.g "I went to a private school and failed all of my GCSEs" here are some facts taken from the BBC and elsewhere.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government." ~ Nick Clegg
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinions or situations e.g "I went to a private school and failed all of my GCSEs" here are some facts taken from the BBC and elsewhere.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government." ~ Nick Clegg
Why is it fair that people who have more money than us have nicer cars, nicer houses, a nice wife, and a stupidly huge television in every room?
It all comes down to money I'm afraid. Whether people went to a private or public school is irrelevant. By no means are the more 'successful' and ambitious students barred automatically from the Oxbridge colleges and Universities - if you work your nuts off, you're in for as much of a fighting chance as anyone else.
Your background is irrelevant.
Original post by Mendeleev's Table
And if a murderer said that they didn't mean to kill somebody, you would believe them straight away?
Putting aside that Nick Clegg is a twit I have some things about that:
1. Just because xyz allegedly came out of his mouth, what makes the fact it came out his mouth relevant?
2. I addressed your awful comprehension of the stats in the OP a while a go. You, quite conveniently did not reply
3. Banning private schools will solve little more than nothing, and only create more problems
Putting aside that Nick Clegg is a twit I have some things about that:
1. Just because xyz allegedly came out of his mouth, what makes the fact it came out his mouth relevant?
2. I addressed your awful comprehension of the stats in the OP a while a go. You, quite conveniently did not reply
3. Banning private schools will solve little more than nothing, and only create more problems
1. Why would the deputy pm say something which would only cause hassle for the Government?
2. In the op I never comprehended the stats, I put them up in bullet points open for comprehension.
3. They would have the same education as the rest of us making things fairer. I've not said that banning them is the answer but State schools need to improve, which would decrease private schools.
Original post by Chad_Bronson
Why is it fair that people who have more money than us have nicer cars, nicer houses, a nice wife, and a stupidly huge television in every room?
It all comes down to money I'm afraid. Whether people went to a private or public school is irrelevant. By no means are the more 'successful' and ambitious students barred automatically from the Oxbridge colleges and Universities - if you work your nuts off, you're in for as much of a fighting chance as anyone else.
Your background is irrelevant.
It all comes down to money I'm afraid. Whether people went to a private or public school is irrelevant. By no means are the more 'successful' and ambitious students barred automatically from the Oxbridge colleges and Universities - if you work your nuts off, you're in for as much of a fighting chance as anyone else.
Your background is irrelevant.
Reply to post 382 please.
Original post by Miracle Day
X.
I am for good schools.
Private schools are good schools.
Therefore I am for private schools.
Original post by millie-rose
This is such an interesting question.
My family sent my brother to private school and not me. I experience first hand the difference in our lives. I know before he even takes his gcses that he will almost certainly get A's and A*s. It's because the opportunity, standard and education provided by private schools is certainly very very high. But of course it is, my parents pay like 10 grand a year for his school, they physically won't let him get a 'C' grade which is like an insult at his school. (LOL)
I went to a crap school and everyday I can just see he will go from there, to sixth form, to cambridge/oxford and it's been such an easy glide for him. He has no idea of actually struggling to achieve anything because his teachers are ready to do anything for him to get the grades.
I have average gcses, my a level predicted grades are AAB which is good. But I know no matter what I do I will never achieve what he has yet I can tell you right now i work twice as hard.
We are in the same family, same house, yet our futures and life couldn't be more different just because of money.
Of course I think it's highly unfair- money has bought my brother a better future. And I can tell you right now, he's actually not even amazingly smart. He was at a state school for a couple years when he was younger, and he was no where near the top of the class.
I accept that injustice is everywhere, but I'm just sharing my account of it to add to this discussion.
But of course, all the time, I wish that opportunity had been provided to me. Money is buying him a very bright future.
And everyone can say oh stop moaning just work harder.... if that was the case then there would be no bloody need for private schooling
My family sent my brother to private school and not me. I experience first hand the difference in our lives. I know before he even takes his gcses that he will almost certainly get A's and A*s. It's because the opportunity, standard and education provided by private schools is certainly very very high. But of course it is, my parents pay like 10 grand a year for his school, they physically won't let him get a 'C' grade which is like an insult at his school. (LOL)
I went to a crap school and everyday I can just see he will go from there, to sixth form, to cambridge/oxford and it's been such an easy glide for him. He has no idea of actually struggling to achieve anything because his teachers are ready to do anything for him to get the grades.
I have average gcses, my a level predicted grades are AAB which is good. But I know no matter what I do I will never achieve what he has yet I can tell you right now i work twice as hard.
We are in the same family, same house, yet our futures and life couldn't be more different just because of money.
Of course I think it's highly unfair- money has bought my brother a better future. And I can tell you right now, he's actually not even amazingly smart. He was at a state school for a couple years when he was younger, and he was no where near the top of the class.
I accept that injustice is everywhere, but I'm just sharing my account of it to add to this discussion.
But of course, all the time, I wish that opportunity had been provided to me. Money is buying him a very bright future.
And everyone can say oh stop moaning just work harder.... if that was the case then there would be no bloody need for private schooling
Welcome to the forum, Millie-Rose :welcome:
May I ask something however - why did the bung him off to private school and not you? I mean I am aware of he may be doing better academically - but surely that's wholly unfair from a family level?
One of the biggest problems with state schools is there are plenty of naturally clever people who have no interest in learning - and have an insistence of dragging everyone down to their level, so it prevents people who do want to learn from learning. As such teachers spent too much time trying to deal with the badly behaved and less on those who want to learn.
You don't get that in private schools. Because they are ridiculously expensive, people go there because they want to learn. standards are better because you're not bunged in with the rest of the idiots who give a bad name to the school.
There is no such thing as a bad school - only bad teachers and students.
Original post by Miracle Day
Reply to post 382 please.
Replied, see my earlier post
Original post by Miracle Day
1. Why would the deputy pm say something which would only cause hassle for the Government?
2. In the op I never comprehended the stats, I put them up in bullet points open for comprehension.
3. They would have the same education as the rest of us making things fairer. I've not said that banning them is the answer but State schools need to improve, which would decrease private schools.
2. In the op I never comprehended the stats, I put them up in bullet points open for comprehension.
3. They would have the same education as the rest of us making things fairer. I've not said that banning them is the answer but State schools need to improve, which would decrease private schools.
1. I do hope you're joking?
2. You said somewhere in the thread something along the lines lf "the evidence shows that if I went to private school I would have achieved better grades". The statistics said no such thing.
3. You've changed your tune. Earlier you said there were no arguments for them.
In the case you change your mind again, I shall explain why banning them will solve nothing:
What is most likely to happen is that the wealthy children that live in wealthy areas will populate state schools in that area. The teachers will most likely work at these schools as well. A golden halo will form around this oh-so excellent state schools, while the comprehensives not in these areas will recieve the same (poor) standard of teaching they always had.
But, at least we can tick a box and say everybody had an equal chance, right?
its unfair- get over it. thats life
i went to a school where i was the only person to get A/A*s at GCSE. the majority failed
i worked hard, and now i`ll be going to a top university in September to study a prestigeous degree.
even if you dont have the opportunities that others do, you can still achieve and be successful.
i went to a school where i was the only person to get A/A*s at GCSE. the majority failed
i worked hard, and now i`ll be going to a top university in September to study a prestigeous degree.
even if you dont have the opportunities that others do, you can still achieve and be successful.
Original post by Miracle Day
Really? She's said it herself.
And I don't think Nick Clegg would go against private schools and pull those statistics out of his 'backside'
And I don't think Nick Clegg would go against private schools and pull those statistics out of his 'backside'
He's gone against everything else he said he was for in the past couple of years so...
Original post by Miracle Day
but State schools need to improve, which would decrease private schools.
If you look at the article I posted before, you would see evidence to suggest State schools are already improved and better than private schools in certain areas...
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Chad_Bronson
Welcome to the forum, Millie-Rose :welcome:
May I ask something however - why did the bung him off to private school and not you? I mean I am aware of he may be doing better academically - but surely that's wholly unfair from a family level?
One of the biggest problems with state schools is there are plenty of naturally clever people who have no interest in learning - and have an insistence of dragging everyone down to their level, so it prevents people who do want to learn from learning. As such teachers spent too much time trying to deal with the badly behaved and less on those who want to learn.
You don't get that in private schools. Because they are ridiculously expensive, people go there because they want to learn. standards are better because you're not bunged in with the rest of the idiots who give a bad name to the school.
There is no such thing as a bad school - only bad teachers and students.
May I ask something however - why did the bung him off to private school and not you? I mean I am aware of he may be doing better academically - but surely that's wholly unfair from a family level?
One of the biggest problems with state schools is there are plenty of naturally clever people who have no interest in learning - and have an insistence of dragging everyone down to their level, so it prevents people who do want to learn from learning. As such teachers spent too much time trying to deal with the badly behaved and less on those who want to learn.
You don't get that in private schools. Because they are ridiculously expensive, people go there because they want to learn. standards are better because you're not bunged in with the rest of the idiots who give a bad name to the school.
There is no such thing as a bad school - only bad teachers and students.
When my dad got a job promotion I was in year 6 I think, so I was quite far behind the private school curriculum. They wanted us to go to the same school, so we both interviewed for one, where I got in and my brother didn't but my dad didn't like it that much. By the time my brother got accepted to one, i was in like year 8 and they thought it would be too difficult for me to catch up on what i missed and enrolled my brother as he was still in primary school. :/ i'm going to hold this grudge all my life lol
Original post by Petro_99
its unfair- get over it. thats life
if i had a penny for every time i read this i'd have enough to go to eton. of course, I wouldn't spend it on that. I'd buy a negro slave.
of course, it's unfair, but they'll get over it.
Original post by Petro_99
its unfair- get over it. thats life
if i had a penny for every time i read this i'd have enough to go to eton. I wouldn't spend it on that. I'd buy a negro slave.
of course, it's unfair, but they'll get over it.
Original post by millie-rose
When my dad got a job promotion I was in year 6 I think, so I was quite far behind the private school curriculum. They wanted us to go to the same school, so we both interviewed for one, where I got in and my brother didn't but my dad didn't like it that much. By the time my brother got accepted to one, i was in like year 8 and they thought it would be too difficult for me to catch up on what i missed and enrolled my brother as he was still in primary school. :/ i'm going to hold this grudge all my life lol
Sounds like a bad pickle you're in, darling
I wouldn't worry too much mate - So long as you try your hardest you can sleep knowing that you did your best, which is far, far better than 'meaningless' qualifications.
How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
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