Rape is not going out on a ONS getting drunk, having sex, then claiming rape.
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If a girl is drunk and she clearly says "no" it still means "no". If the girl is not conscious enough to make a decision e.g. slurring words, cannot keep eyes open, lost most of their motor skills, cannot understand what is going on etc. this is also rape because the girl cannot consent. Getting forced down is not the only time a person has been raped.
Original post by EllieC130
That's what I said; if you don't remember whether you did or not it's not rape. It's only rape if you remember being forced.
My apologies, I misread! In that case I totally agree
Original post by Mankytoes
Amazing that anyone would say that. So if you roofie someone, then rape them, and they don't remember, it isn't rape.
Amazing that anyone would say that. So if you roofie someone, then rape them, and they don't remember, it isn't rape.
We have to look at it from the victim's point if view. If they wake up remembering drink then sex and nothing else, a jury could not convict them of rape and IMO they should not report. It could be that they had hit on a guy, got really drunk and then seduced him, or that someone roofied them and then had sex with them. Unless they remember specifically that they did not consent we can't call it rape (unless they had eyewitnesses etc who could say what happened).
Some of what's being posted here is pretty frightening to read and much of it simply untrue. I'm going to assume the source for a lot of it is just youth and inexperience, but there's a lot of misinformation in this thread. This page from the Crown Prosecution Service website is really helpful and clears up a lot of the myths that have been mentioned here.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/societal_myths/#a1
Even if you don't want to read all of it or even click on the link, please bear in mind at the very least that
1) False allegations of rape are very rare. So much rarer than someone being raped and being too scared to report it. I'm not saying that falsely accusing someone of rape isn't a horrible, potentially life-ruining thing to do, just that it simply doesn't happen nearly as often as a lot of people think.
2) "Stranger out of a bush or dark alleyway" rape is not that common. It certainly happens, but rapists are much more often someone that the victim knows and trusts. A lot of rapes occur in the victim's own home. It really isn't helpful to define one circumstance of rape as somehow being more legitimate than any other.
3) Sex without consent from all parties involved is rape. Consent is consciously agreeing (while having the presence of mind to do so) to participate in sexual activity, not just "well she didn't say no...". Coercing or threatening someone into saying yes is NOT consent.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/societal_myths/#a1
Even if you don't want to read all of it or even click on the link, please bear in mind at the very least that
1) False allegations of rape are very rare. So much rarer than someone being raped and being too scared to report it. I'm not saying that falsely accusing someone of rape isn't a horrible, potentially life-ruining thing to do, just that it simply doesn't happen nearly as often as a lot of people think.
2) "Stranger out of a bush or dark alleyway" rape is not that common. It certainly happens, but rapists are much more often someone that the victim knows and trusts. A lot of rapes occur in the victim's own home. It really isn't helpful to define one circumstance of rape as somehow being more legitimate than any other.
3) Sex without consent from all parties involved is rape. Consent is consciously agreeing (while having the presence of mind to do so) to participate in sexual activity, not just "well she didn't say no...". Coercing or threatening someone into saying yes is NOT consent.
It's a fine line imo.
If you are absolutely ****ing para, and the guy has preyed on you, I've seen this multiple times, sober guys (most good looking) waiting until they can find an absolutely drunk girl - go over to them and start chatting them up, now they're instantly at a high success rate because theyre attractive and even more so to this girl who is off her face. It takes a few lines and they normally grab them by the hand and take them home and **** them and the girl wakes up with 0 recollection of what happened. That to me is rape.
Preying on someone to get into a circumstance where they cannot think straight and using this to your advantage is in my mind no different to date rape. It's disgusting and girls fall for this **** time and time again because alcohol has blinkered the signals.
It is however completely different when the girl is drunk enough to know what she's doing-ish as in she's conscious of her surroundings and she chooses to go home with a guy, I think thats different.
It's finding that line of "yeah shes far too drunk for this" and "she knew what she was doing", and for me, to be safe, I won't be taking home any girl I think is wrecked, I already worry that sober girls might not want to, not going to add another element of worry thinking could I wake up tomorrow to a rape case.
If you are absolutely ****ing para, and the guy has preyed on you, I've seen this multiple times, sober guys (most good looking) waiting until they can find an absolutely drunk girl - go over to them and start chatting them up, now they're instantly at a high success rate because theyre attractive and even more so to this girl who is off her face. It takes a few lines and they normally grab them by the hand and take them home and **** them and the girl wakes up with 0 recollection of what happened. That to me is rape.
Preying on someone to get into a circumstance where they cannot think straight and using this to your advantage is in my mind no different to date rape. It's disgusting and girls fall for this **** time and time again because alcohol has blinkered the signals.
It is however completely different when the girl is drunk enough to know what she's doing-ish as in she's conscious of her surroundings and she chooses to go home with a guy, I think thats different.
It's finding that line of "yeah shes far too drunk for this" and "she knew what she was doing", and for me, to be safe, I won't be taking home any girl I think is wrecked, I already worry that sober girls might not want to, not going to add another element of worry thinking could I wake up tomorrow to a rape case.
Original post by everyonemustpay
Well actually I believe only women can be raped under British law (Britain has a retarded legal system), so I would guess that pretty much every false rape claim is made by a woman.
No, only men can commit rape; a man can still be raped by another man. A woman, however can't rape another woman - you need to have a penis.
Original post by The Socktor
No, only men can commit rape; a man can still be raped by another man. A woman, however can't rape another woman - you need to have a penis.
That is exactly what I said. Well done for reiterating my words. Under British law a woman cannot be raped, hence that is one of the reason why British legal legislation is in many ways so retarded.
Original post by joker12345
We have to look at it from the victim's point if view. If they wake up remembering drink then sex and nothing else, a jury could not convict them of rape and IMO they should not report. It could be that they had hit on a guy, got really drunk and then seduced him, or that someone roofied them and then had sex with them. Unless they remember specifically that they did not consent we can't call it rape (unless they had eyewitnesses etc who could say what happened).
That's a big "unless". If they were taken from a club/bar there were probably hundreds of eyewitnesses, including door staff.
Original post by HagathaChristie
1) False allegations of rape are very rare. So much rarer than someone being raped and being too scared to report it. I'm not saying that falsely accusing someone of rape isn't a horrible, potentially life-ruining thing to do, just that it simply doesn't happen nearly as often as a lot of people think.
1) False allegations of rape are very rare. So much rarer than someone being raped and being too scared to report it. I'm not saying that falsely accusing someone of rape isn't a horrible, potentially life-ruining thing to do, just that it simply doesn't happen nearly as often as a lot of people think.
What the link actually shows is convictions for falsely accusing rape are very low. That isn't the same. Just as proving a rape can be hard, proving a girl has lied can be hard too, and most people wouldn't even consider pursueing prosecution. I have a friend who was accused of rape, the police looked into it but found no evidence (only witness was their taxi driver who said she was all over him). As far as I'm aware, he was just very relieved not to go to court, have his name in the paper etc, the last thing most guys falsely accused is to have to go through a court case, they just want to put it behind them and move on- the police have a record of the accusation, so they'll know if she does it a lot.
A crazy girl at uni was going round saying me and my friends sexually assaulted her as well. She didn't go to the police, but it's kind of scary to think if she did, we could have been in the papers, it could come up when you google my name, all my family, friends, partners would know... it's a scary thing for guys. I'm not saying it's on the same level as being raped, but the fact you have no anonymity, even if they're just wild accusations, it's a scary prospect.
Original post by everyonemustpay
Well don't you sound intelligent? Law is not a difficult course, so no bonus points for your irrelevant claim. What university do you study law at?
No, it does not apply, sexual assault is often a much lower penalty than rape and certainly female sexual offenders do not have the same stigma as that of their male counterparts.
No, it does not apply, sexual assault is often a much lower penalty than rape and certainly female sexual offenders do not have the same stigma as that of their male counterparts.
Lol, okay then
At Bristol.
I am talking about my personal social opinion here, I am not talking about the law, I stated I do law because I know that legally it does not count / whatever. And they would have the same stigma, were there more of them.
ANYWAY. My original point was that the thread this thread referred to made a big deal of the social inequality over rape, and my point was that making a claim like this from either side is ridiculous - anyone who does support female > male is just emphasizing the issue (or non-issue)
Stop disturbing my bathtime lol.
Original post by Inazuma
Lol, okay then
At Bristol.
I am talking about my personal social opinion here, I am not talking about the law, I stated I do law because I know that legally it does not count / whatever. And they would have the same stigma, were there more of them.
ANYWAY. My original point was that the thread this thread referred to made a big deal of the social inequality over rape, and my point was that making a claim like this from either side is ridiculous - anyone who does support female > male is just emphasizing the issue (or non-issue)
Stop disturbing my bathtime lol.
At Bristol.
I am talking about my personal social opinion here, I am not talking about the law, I stated I do law because I know that legally it does not count / whatever. And they would have the same stigma, were there more of them.
ANYWAY. My original point was that the thread this thread referred to made a big deal of the social inequality over rape, and my point was that making a claim like this from either side is ridiculous - anyone who does support female > male is just emphasizing the issue (or non-issue)
Stop disturbing my bathtime lol.
Bristol has requirements for Law so that makes sense.
That is a very stupid claim for you to make. It is an issue if a man can be tried for raping a woman but not vice versa. It is an inequality in the law and unfair.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by everyonemustpay
Bristol has requirements for Law so that makes sense.
That is a very stupid claim for you to make. It is an issue if a man can be tried for raping a woman but not vice versa. It is an inequality in the law and unfair.
That is a very stupid claim for you to make. It is an issue if a man can be tried for raping a woman but not vice versa. It is an inequality in the law and unfair.
Yes it's an inequality - hence why I was saying in practice they're equally important
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Inazuma
You're a charming individual aren't you?
Yes it's an inequality - hence why I was saying in practice they're equally important
Yes it's an inequality - hence why I was saying in practice they're equally important
I must apologise for my grammatical error. I meant to type that Bristol has low requirements for Law hence why someone like you is studying there.
It is an inequality that must be resolved. I really hope you not become a lawyer, it would be a travesty upon the justice system.
Just a serious question...is one partner waking up another with oral stimulation rape or sexual abuse if an agreement wasn't made?
Original post by everyonemustpay
I must apologise for my grammatical error. I meant to type that Bristol has low requirements for Law hence why someone like you is studying there.
It is an inequality that must be resolved. I really hope you not become a lawyer, it would be a travesty upon the justice system.
It is an inequality that must be resolved. I really hope you not become a lawyer, it would be a travesty upon the justice system.
I never said it shouldn't be resolved. I fail to see what your incessantly rude attitude is for, especially considering you clearly aren't even reading what I am saying.
Original post by Inazuma
Yes yes legally schmegally whatever (I do study law).
It applies both genders because sexual assault still carries high penalties and the same social stigma so the legal classification is not that relevant.
It applies both genders because sexual assault still carries high penalties and the same social stigma so the legal classification is not that relevant.
I will again quite your earlier comment. Women can commit rape. Rape is the forcing of sex onto an unwilling individual. The penetration part is ridiculous as a woman could penetrate by artificial methods. So, it is a ridiculous and archaic rule that in British law a woman cannot commit rape. When logically they can.
You deserve all the rudeness that you receive for your asinine comment.
Original post by keromedic
Just a serious question...is one partner waking up another with oral stimulation rape or sexual abuse if an agreement wasn't made?
An interesting question, I would presume sexual assault rather than rape but it is not clear cut. By the way, that is a great cat photograph. I commend you for your excellent taste.
Original post by everyonemustpay
I will again quite your earlier comment. Women can commit rape. Rape is the forcing of sex onto an unwilling individual. The penetration part is ridiculous as a woman could penetrate by artificial methods. So, it is a ridiculous and archaic rule that in British law a woman cannot commit rape. When logically they can.
You deserve all the rudeness that you receive for your asinine comment.
You deserve all the rudeness that you receive for your asinine comment.
You clearly cannot read / interpret correctly.
Not legally relevant to my opinion - that it's the same. Don't bother commenting when you agree with what I'm saying you just can't comprehend it.
Lol, reading briefly through your posts you seem to be a giant
, with some delightful, hateful tendencies - particularly towards women. Luckily I trust the opinions of smart, educated people rather than that of a simple, angry, anonymous troll.
Original post by tehforum
The former is a clear cut case of rape, but not all rape are like that.
The second case is not rape. Regret has no bearing on whether it was rape or not.
The legal position is "drunken consent is still consent" - R v Bree.
The second case is not rape. Regret has no bearing on whether it was rape or not.
The legal position is "drunken consent is still consent" - R v Bree.
You actually did some reading. Fairly impressive. (No sarcasm.)
Original post by everyonemustpay
Well don't you sound intelligent? Law is not a difficult course, so no bonus points for your irrelevant claim. What university do you study law at?
No, it does not apply, sexual assault is often a much lower penalty than rape and certainly female sexual offenders do not have the same stigma as that of their male counterparts.
No, it does not apply, sexual assault is often a much lower penalty than rape and certainly female sexual offenders do not have the same stigma as that of their male counterparts.
Before I comment on the topic of this thread, I'd like to point out that you've been unnecessarily rude to Inazuma in all your posts.
The claim wasn't irrelevant - she only mentioned that she studies law to demonstrate that her dismissal of its intricacies (by her use of the phrase "legally schmegally") wasn't based on a lack of knowledge. I think that's a fair enough statement to make.
Also no, the penalties for sexual assault can be as high as that of rape (familiarise yourself with the legislation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/2), though I will concede to the stigma point you made since a woman can't be a rapist (and obviously rape sounds worse than sex assault).
Original post by everyonemustpay
That is exactly what I said. Well done for reiterating my words. Under British law a woman cannot be raped, hence that is one of the reason why British legal legislation is in many ways so retarded.
No, that's not exactly what you said. "Only women can be raped" is very different from "only men can be rapists".
Original post by EllieC130
I agree to a point; my view is if you black out and don't remember consenting it's not rape. However if you get drunk and initially say yes but then change your mind but they force you anyway, that's rape. The basic point is- if you remember being forced, it's rape. No question.
I think this really depends, since it's likely that if you are so drunk that you black out, you cannot be said to have capacity to give consent.
(edited 9 years ago)
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