do you like the NHS? would you be upset/worried to see it go?
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Original post by Smash Bandicoot
Fron a layman regular service user, I think that although the admin now is rather silly and saturated, I would be distraught to see our healthcare privatised.
You have to start by saying what it is that you want to preserve?
Is it the name; the logo; the fact that it is free at the point of use (except for prescriptions, dentistry and optical care); the administrative structure; the fact that all hospitals look equally depressing? What is the NHS that you seek to preserve?
Original post by Gott
Please read my posts 😱
The institution of the NHS is not responsible for a patient surviving it. The millions of deaths caused by there incompetence are better exemplars of their worth as an institutional. Competent individuals existing within a complex network of bad management recourse distribution, or anything done failed compared to the continental system virtually, do not excuse the nature of the system which is unchangingly backward.
The institution of the NHS is not responsible for a patient surviving it. The millions of deaths caused by there incompetence are better exemplars of their worth as an institutional. Competent individuals existing within a complex network of bad management recourse distribution, or anything done failed compared to the continental system virtually, do not excuse the nature of the system which is unchangingly backward.
your entire argument is predicated off your experience of the system being the rule rather than the ****ty exception, wrapped up in a lot of technical jargon and political rhetoric.
We will enter seriously slippery territory here because I do not want to invalidate your mistreatment and loss. :/
Original post by nulli tertius
You have to start by saying what it is that you want to preserve?
Is it the name; the logo; the fact that it is free at the point of use (except for prescriptions, dentistry and optical care); the administrative structure; the fact that all hospitals look equally depressing? What is the NHS that you seek to preserve?
Is it the name; the logo; the fact that it is free at the point of use (except for prescriptions, dentistry and optical care); the administrative structure; the fact that all hospitals look equally depressing? What is the NHS that you seek to preserve?
Dat blue and white logo brah :sexface
Obviously the fact it's free so people don't have to pay $50,000 for a heart transplant, ofc. In an ideal world (like back in the early Noughties) dentistry, opticals etc. would also be free, especially if we're talking serious eye infections.
It has it's flaws, but overall I think the NHS is wonderful.
I would be devastated to see it go. I think of the support various NHS healthcare workers have given my family over the years, the care they gave me when I clinically died aged 9, and I don't think I'd have gotten that anywhere else.
I really hope one day in the future I'll be able to call myself an NHS employee and it doesn't get privatised.
I would be devastated to see it go. I think of the support various NHS healthcare workers have given my family over the years, the care they gave me when I clinically died aged 9, and I don't think I'd have gotten that anywhere else.
I really hope one day in the future I'll be able to call myself an NHS employee and it doesn't get privatised.
The NHS needs to change though.
I worked for it and found the most bureaucratic bunch of BS I've ever known.
My father spent a week in one of thier dedicated pallative care centres. He was in there for awhile and was treated abysmally, He was actually frightened by how badly he and the other clients were spoken to and treated. THe room he was in was cold, and at one point had been a basement, there was still noisy pipes running through it. One other patient moaned and howled into the night disturbing the rest of the others. It was awful Thankfully he didnt stay long as the family had him out and into a Marie Curie Hospice within two weeks.
It may have its good points but the NHS has a lot of bad ones as well
I worked for it and found the most bureaucratic bunch of BS I've ever known.
My father spent a week in one of thier dedicated pallative care centres. He was in there for awhile and was treated abysmally, He was actually frightened by how badly he and the other clients were spoken to and treated. THe room he was in was cold, and at one point had been a basement, there was still noisy pipes running through it. One other patient moaned and howled into the night disturbing the rest of the others. It was awful Thankfully he didnt stay long as the family had him out and into a Marie Curie Hospice within two weeks.
It may have its good points but the NHS has a lot of bad ones as well
Original post by Obiejess
It is literally the only reason I will stay in this country. When it is gone, so am I.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
ooh, that's for another thread
Original post by Natalierm2707
The NHS is one of the best political decisions that has been made I world history.
It is a system that allows everyone equal access to healthcare and does not discriminate on income.
It is one of the only systems in the world that has no favour and is equally availible to the rich and the poor.
I would be very sad to see the NHS go, and my main reason is how much it has helped our family.
My auntie was paralysed and brain damaged in a hit and run car accident at age 4, all throughout her life she was in hospital, needed specialist shoes, wheelchairs and daily care just so life was bearable.
She sadly passed away 5 years ago at the age of 38, after contracting phnemonia, unfortunately because her body was weak she couldn't fight the disease. The NHS cared for her for 6 weeks, even when it looked bleak they sent her to a specialist hospital to be put on a very advanced machine to try and save her. Doctors and nurses did everything they could to save her!! This would not have been possible if my family lived in the U.S. as we are not rich at all, we struggle by on a very low income, and back then my grandma and my grandad were both full time carers with no income.
Without the NHS so many people living in poverty would die everyday as they would avoid seeking medical advice as they just cannot afford it.
It is a lifeline!!
Posted from TSR Mobile
It is a system that allows everyone equal access to healthcare and does not discriminate on income.
It is one of the only systems in the world that has no favour and is equally availible to the rich and the poor.
I would be very sad to see the NHS go, and my main reason is how much it has helped our family.
My auntie was paralysed and brain damaged in a hit and run car accident at age 4, all throughout her life she was in hospital, needed specialist shoes, wheelchairs and daily care just so life was bearable.
She sadly passed away 5 years ago at the age of 38, after contracting phnemonia, unfortunately because her body was weak she couldn't fight the disease. The NHS cared for her for 6 weeks, even when it looked bleak they sent her to a specialist hospital to be put on a very advanced machine to try and save her. Doctors and nurses did everything they could to save her!! This would not have been possible if my family lived in the U.S. as we are not rich at all, we struggle by on a very low income, and back then my grandma and my grandad were both full time carers with no income.
Without the NHS so many people living in poverty would die everyday as they would avoid seeking medical advice as they just cannot afford it.
It is a lifeline!!
Posted from TSR Mobile
agreed!
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
Dat blue and white logo brah :sexface
Obviously the fact it's free so people don't have to pay $50,000 for a heart transplant, ofc. In an ideal world (like back in the early Noughties) dentistry, opticals etc. would also be free, especially if we're talking serious eye infections.
Obviously the fact it's free so people don't have to pay $50,000 for a heart transplant, ofc. In an ideal world (like back in the early Noughties) dentistry, opticals etc. would also be free, especially if we're talking serious eye infections.
Dental and optical charges were brought in in April 1951 to help pay for the Korean War. They have been a part of the NHS for all of your and my lifetimes. Bevin and Wilson resigned over it.
For the vast (and rising) majority of Americans (expected to be well over 90% with the largest groups not covered being illegal immigrants and refuseniks), healthcare is free at the point of use. Why wouldn't you be happy with Obamacare in place of the NHS?
Original post by Gott
It is a massively inefficient lifeline and often not that
Better than a lifeline which most people couldn't afford.
Original post by Gott
I am saying that personal experience is a source of misplaced faith as shown in other posts. My argument is based on objective chritisism of the fundamental structural faults of the NHS which can be motivated by personal experience but not based on it. That you think that an objective point is corrupted by the motivation to concieve of it is infantile
Well let's say you have posted the same point more or less in 10+ separate posts on this thread, it's fair to say you have a vested interest in dissing the NHS :/
don't call my reasoning infantile.
No-one here is calling the NHS perfect, indeed I went as far as professing to be a 'layman' i.e. not knowing of the structural faults. All I merely said was that it was a damn good thing on the whole, that the country would be much worse off for not having
How will control in the hands of the healthcare industry improve our service? Industries have profit as their base motive, Europe could easily head the way of America in such hands
Original post by nulli tertius
Dental and optical charges were brought in in April 1951 to help pay for the Korean War. They have been a part of the NHS for all of your and my lifetimes. Bevin and Wilson resigned over it.
For the vast (and rising) majority of Americans (expected to be well over 90% with the largest groups not covered being illegal immigrants and refuseniks), healthcare is free at the point of use. Why wouldn't you be happy with Obamacare in place of the NHS?
For the vast (and rising) majority of Americans (expected to be well over 90% with the largest groups not covered being illegal immigrants and refuseniks), healthcare is free at the point of use. Why wouldn't you be happy with Obamacare in place of the NHS?
I see, thanks for clarifying. I forget I'm now paying adult prices
Obamacare sounds amazing, I'm talking about America pre-Obamacare-and frankly there's a lot of social pressure from what I've heard, not to access Obamacare, as to do so means "you're a filthy Commie" or some other backwards right-wing BS.
Original post by Gott
Read my sod*ing posts 😡😡😡😡
The life line which should be implemented is that imitating the Continental model where NOBODY PAYS for the health care which is provided by private practices, who claim the charge from the government.
The life line which should be implemented is that imitating the Continental model where NOBODY PAYS for the health care which is provided by private practices, who claim the charge from the government.
I see where you're coming from, but that too is dangerous. All it takes is for the private companies to decide to monopolise the whole affair and we're run under a 'pharmagarchy'
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
I see, thanks for clarifying. I forget I'm now paying adult prices
Obamacare sounds amazing, I'm talking about America pre-Obamacare-and frankly there's a lot of social pressure from what I've heard, not to access Obamacare, as to do so means "you're a filthy Commie" or some other backwards right-wing BS.
Obamacare sounds amazing, I'm talking about America pre-Obamacare-and frankly there's a lot of social pressure from what I've heard, not to access Obamacare, as to do so means "you're a filthy Commie" or some other backwards right-wing BS.
Which will disappear when the completely different yet identical policy known as JebBushCare comes along as it surely will when election year comes around.
Original post by nulli tertius
Which will disappear when the completely different yet identical policy known as JebBushCare comes along as it surely will when election year comes around.
why would it? I don't think Americans are that stupid to not notice blinding similarities in an increasing welfare state. :/
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
I see where you're coming from, but that too is dangerous. All it takes is for the private companies to decide to monopolise the whole affair and we're run under a 'pharmagarchy'
It is a lot less dangerous than death by red tape.
The problem with the NHS is that it shows what an out of control bureaucracy does in a modern society.
As organisations grow things that aren't jobs in small organisations appoint people to perform them e.g. hanging pictures. Then if the organisation gets bigger you need a supervisor for picture hanging who eventually needs an assistant. When there are so many picture hangers you cannot keep track of them, there has to be manager for the supervisor and picture hanging has its own HR, training and payroll staff. Eventually there is a Royal College of Picture Hangers.
That is the NHS's problem. It is so big, it turns ancillary functions into an industry.
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
why would it? I don't think Americans are that stupid to not notice blinding similarities in an increasing welfare state. :/
Don't you?
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/massachusetts-romneycare-health-care-exchange-106362.html
Original post by nulli tertius
It is a lot less dangerous than death by red tape.
The problem with the NHS is that it shows what an out of control bureaucracy does in a modern society.
As organisations grow things that aren't jobs in small organisations appoint people to perform them e.g. hanging pictures. Then if the organisation gets bigger you need a supervisor for picture hanging who eventually needs an assistant. When there are so many picture hangers you cannot keep track of them, there has to be manager for the supervisor and picture hanging has its own HR, training and payroll staff. Eventually there is a Royal College of Picture Hangers.
That is the NHS's problem. It is so big, it turns ancillary functions into an industry.
The problem with the NHS is that it shows what an out of control bureaucracy does in a modern society.
As organisations grow things that aren't jobs in small organisations appoint people to perform them e.g. hanging pictures. Then if the organisation gets bigger you need a supervisor for picture hanging who eventually needs an assistant. When there are so many picture hangers you cannot keep track of them, there has to be manager for the supervisor and picture hanging has its own HR, training and payroll staff. Eventually there is a Royal College of Picture Hangers.
That is the NHS's problem. It is so big, it turns ancillary functions into an industry.
I see where your analogy is coming from, can you now relate it to the ancillary functions of the NHS please?
Original post by Gott
It is not reasoning to say that people must always have a personal motivation for furthering a political point, it is cynicism! let's just say you seem VERY eager to be heard 
There is no reason to suppose that the continent will become less liberal, imagine Sweden slowing the poor to die for want of money; while it is the model which our's should be replaced with not the political climate.agreed
The point which I make is one of the main reasons for how the NHS has managed to survive, that is Labour and the unwillingness to risk such opposition to their stance so far as the necessary loss of the NHS. so this is a Labour hate/anti-socialist campaign right?There is also the matter of infrastructure which another has mentioned by is not the answer to the posts which I have replied to can you please explain the actual infrastructural problems, besides bureaucracy which would exist in the European models too?
There is no reason to suppose that the continent will become less liberal, imagine Sweden slowing the poor to die for want of money; while it is the model which our's should be replaced with not the political climate.agreedThe point which I make is one of the main reasons for how the NHS has managed to survive, that is Labour and the unwillingness to risk such opposition to their stance so far as the necessary loss of the NHS. so this is a Labour hate/anti-socialist campaign right?There is also the matter of infrastructure which another has mentioned by is not the answer to the posts which I have replied to can you please explain the actual infrastructural problems, besides bureaucracy which would exist in the European models too?
^^^
As long as we don't revert to the US health system... lol.
From where the glorious NHS stands currently, It would be pretty hard to ruin overnight.
Would be really worried if it were to be significantly privatised.
From where the glorious NHS stands currently, It would be pretty hard to ruin overnight.
Would be really worried if it were to be significantly privatised.
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