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Homosexuality - biological, or a choice?
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Original post by h3isenberg
You've met the children of the people you claim have declared themselves homosexuals despite having relationship with women? A bit of a flimsy argument.
Lol, the kinsey test. The kinsey test describes behaviour.
That's not evidence that everyone has homosexual tendencies
Yeah, after their 40s/50s... I'm talking teens/20s which is when it increases rapidly.
Lol, the kinsey test. The kinsey test describes behaviour.
That's not evidence that everyone has homosexual tendencies
Yeah, after their 40s/50s... I'm talking teens/20s which is when it increases rapidly.
a) Come on, its really common for people to have homosexual tenancies to have children in the normal way. You're being disingenuous
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=127652
b) kinsey test , tests mainly your thinking not your behaviour:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/lets-talk-about-sex#.lpKj2GEGre
(take the test, most people if 100% honest, with score some level of gayness).
c) When people use phrase "When older" it normally means 'old' not teenager especially when you write on a board used by teens and twenties. Old people tend to have lower sex drives.
Original post by ScrewExams
I have nothing against Gay people themselves - live and let live. however I am a Muslim, and as one I cannot condone their actions as I deem them unnatural - essentially you are going against nature. but that's just my opinion. so where does homosexuality come from (talking non religiously) is it something people are born with, or are people brought up that way, or is it ultimately just a choice, and anyone can be gay?
All thoughts welcome
Edit - added poll
All thoughts welcome
Edit - added poll
Hiya
I'm just moving this poll to a different forum as it's more about society or research than religion.
I studied sociology (and a bit of psychology) for five years. As well as continuing an interest beyond. There are lots of studies but no conclusive answer yet. Personally I don't think it's worth debating and better to leave to research. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what the source or reason is.
As a gay man though, my experience is that I was born gay. If not, something would have happened between the age of 0-3 to make me gay. Even my parents and grandparents say they knew from that age ("because I was so happy all the time" lol).
It's not a choice.
(edited 9 years ago)
I don't believe it is a choice but that doesn't necessarily mean it's purely biological.
It certainly seems to be the case that you're more likely to be gay if your twin is but I'm not seen anything conclusive.
It certainly seems to be the case that you're more likely to be gay if your twin is but I'm not seen anything conclusive.
Homosexuality is biological but living an open and honest life outside the closet is a choice 
Original post by Lalala917362
Ok, let me play devils advocate. We all know these are horrible crimes but if gay is biological.... Does that mean peadophilia and urge to commit rape is biological?
I would say peadophilia is biological as you cannot help who you are attracted to and the urge to commit rape is part biological and environmental. For example, I think some people are more predisposed to committing rape than others but I think the environment can play a key factor in it as well.
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Original post by keromedic
I don't believe it is a choice but that doesn't necessarily mean it's purely biological.
It certainly seems to be the case that you're more likely to be gay if your twin is but I'm not seen anything conclusive.
It certainly seems to be the case that you're more likely to be gay if your twin is but I'm not seen anything conclusive.
The literature generally takes the position that it's a mix of genetic, biological and environmental factors - although there is no consensus on how these factors are related.
This is a likely reason why twins - who share their genetics and a womb - are rarely both homosexual. The largest study of its kind, performed in Sweden, determined that environmental factors (including social environment) appeared to be the dominant predictors.
I wouldn't necessarily say "100% biological" but it certain is biological to a fairly large extent from the sounds of things. it's, simply, also, a matter of inner psychology, development, etc
I'd *never* say it was a matter of choice to actually *be* homosexual - for example, I'm completely straight and I couldn't choose to desire to have certain desires - that makes no sense. I've been bi-curious before and, no, it doesn't work. you can't change yourself like that, no matter the reasons.
I'd *never* say it was a matter of choice to actually *be* homosexual - for example, I'm completely straight and I couldn't choose to desire to have certain desires - that makes no sense. I've been bi-curious before and, no, it doesn't work. you can't change yourself like that, no matter the reasons.
So many millions of homosexual men have children by normal biological means (see US stats posted earlier) and are married that its pretty clear cut that millions of homosexual men can choose not to act homosexually.
I don't want to get into the politics but it seems beyond doubt that there is a choice
I don't want to get into the politics but it seems beyond doubt that there is a choice
Original post by FredOrJohn
So many millions of homosexual men have children by normal biological means (see US stats posted earlier) and are married that its pretty clear cut that millions of homosexual men can choose not to act homosexually.
I don't want to get into the politics but it seems beyond doubt that there is a choice
I don't want to get into the politics but it seems beyond doubt that there is a choice
And so many of them will cheat on their wives in the meanwhile or will feel sh*t throughout their lives. Your point?
The only choice people make here is to undermine themselves.
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Original post by FredOrJohn
So many millions of homosexual men have children by normal biological means (see US stats posted earlier) and are married that its pretty clear cut that millions of homosexual men can choose not to act homosexually.
I don't want to get into the politics but it seems beyond doubt that there is a choice
I don't want to get into the politics but it seems beyond doubt that there is a choice
Choosing to be 'in the closet' and choosing your sexual orientation are two very different things.
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
Choosing to be 'in the closet' and choosing your sexual orientation are two very different things.
Its pretty much clear from what I said that millions of homosexual men in the USA do choose their "sexual orientation" as how do they manage to have children in the normal way.
(forget the politics for a minute) From the available evidence on line homosexual men do have love for women and do have sex in the normal way (millions in the USA, from surveys).
From the evidence available these men LATER choose to be purely homosexual, not because they could not function in a normal marriage (clearly they did) but simply because they have a STRONGER PREFERENCE for gay sex then straight sex. From the evidence it is a choice. Yes, there is probably NO CHOICE in having homosexual desires , but this is also true in desiring other partners (adultery) .
To say there is no choice is clearly flying in the face of all the statistics available - its absurd in other words.
Original post by FredOrJohn
Its pretty much clear from what I said that millions of homosexual men in the USA do choose their "sexual orientation" as how do they manage to have children in the normal way.
(forget the politics for a minute) From the available evidence on line homosexual men do have love for women and do have sex in the normal way (millions in the USA, from surveys).
From the evidence available these men LATER choose to be purely homosexual, not because they could not function in a normal marriage (clearly they did) but simply because they have a STRONGER PREFERENCE for gay sex then straight sex. From the evidence it is a choice. Yes, there is probably NO CHOICE in having homosexual desires , but this is also true in desiring other partners (adultery) .
To say there is no choice is clearly flying in the face of all the statistics available - its absurd in other words.
(forget the politics for a minute) From the available evidence on line homosexual men do have love for women and do have sex in the normal way (millions in the USA, from surveys).
From the evidence available these men LATER choose to be purely homosexual, not because they could not function in a normal marriage (clearly they did) but simply because they have a STRONGER PREFERENCE for gay sex then straight sex. From the evidence it is a choice. Yes, there is probably NO CHOICE in having homosexual desires , but this is also true in desiring other partners (adultery) .
To say there is no choice is clearly flying in the face of all the statistics available - its absurd in other words.
Now you are conflating sexual behavior with sexual orientation. Please try again.
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
Now you are conflating sexual behavior with sexual orientation. Please try again.
Not at all.
Its all semantics..
.
To be crude if you can make your willy go upwards enough to father children then the whole thing (homosexuality) is pretty much "preference" rather then "orientation". The human mind is far stronger then you make out. Its about what fantasy you prefer while you have sex... Its all meaningless mind junk. At least it appears so from the only available evidence - the number of children from homosexual men (millions).
Original post by FredOrJohn
Not at all.
Its all semantics..
.
To be crude if you can make your willy go upwards enough to father children then the whole thing (homosexuality) is pretty much "preference" rather then "orientation". The human mind is far stronger then you make out. Its about what fantasy you prefer while you have sex... Its all meaningless mind junk. At least it appears so from the only available evidence - the number of children from homosexual men (millions).
Its all semantics..
.
To be crude if you can make your willy go upwards enough to father children then the whole thing (homosexuality) is pretty much "preference" rather then "orientation". The human mind is far stronger then you make out. Its about what fantasy you prefer while you have sex... Its all meaningless mind junk. At least it appears so from the only available evidence - the number of children from homosexual men (millions).
You most certainly are. You are correct about one thing. Homosexuality (and heterosexual and all sexual orientations) are purely in the mind. They are attractions. This is extremely different to actions. People can make themselves have sex in lots of situations, that doesn't mean its the situation they want to have sex in. It is hardly meaningless.
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
You most certainly are. You are correct about one thing. Homosexuality (and heterosexual and all sexual orientations) are purely in the mind. They are attractions. This is extremely different to actions. People can make themselves have sex in lots of situations, that doesn't mean its the situation they want to have sex in. It is hardly meaningless.
I think you are being unfair to the homosexual men involved (Millions). They clearly (From evidence) were happy enough with their ability to be sexually attracted to their wife because they all promised to love them for all time... If we assume they spoke the truth, then one assumes these marriages break down in just the same way as "straight" marriages - just dumb ass boredom. Homosexuality is probably an excuse for giving up - not the true reason.... As how would it have worked for so many years and have children (millions so the stats state).
Its clearly not "biological" its more or less a choice (give or take for arguments sake).
Original post by Straight Quant.
Anyway, Yes, I think it is a choice too The male reproductive organ was made to fill the females reproductive organ 
It is like a lock and key.. Like enzyme and substrate. and not induced fit hypothesis 
It is like a lock and key.. Like enzyme and substrate. and not induced fit hypothesis (edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Lt.Hartigan
Totally agree with this guy... Voted it's a choice. Unless they have found some 100% conclusive gay gene, choice has to be part of it.
You clearly don't know enough about biology.
Why does, "just because people haven't found an answer, make it a choice to be gay"? I'm lost in your logic here (well I understand it, but it is very flawed).
What about it being multifactorial? What also about, gene expression? Even if it was nurture, doesn't make it a choice.
Does that mean, despite all these people on the internet claiming that they never chose to be gay, you still think it's a choice? Why are you so cynical about gay people? What makes a gay person worse than the next flawed person?
Now personal, why can't you trust us? Do you realise how destructive this view is, this view of it being a choice?
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Don't say in response that "respect that other people have different views" or anything of the sort. I've had that posted one to many times and am now fed up with it.
Original post by Straight Quant.
Why are there so many gay threads these days 
Anyway, Yes, I think it is a choice too
The male reproductive organ was made to fill the females reproductive organ
It is like a lock and key.. Like enzyme and substrate. and not induced fit hypothesis
Posted from TSR Mobile
Anyway, Yes, I think it is a choice too
The male reproductive organ was made to fill the females reproductive organ
It is like a lock and key.. Like enzyme and substrate. and not induced fit hypothesis
Posted from TSR Mobile
Now this is the problem with extrapolating here, a prime example.
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Original post by XcitingStuart
Why does, "just because people haven't found an answer, make it a choice to be gay"? I'm lost in your logic here (well I understand it, but it is very flawed).
Even if it was nurture, doesn't make it a choice.
Not because "people haven't found an answer", it is because it isn't 100% scientifically proven.
If nurture, yes it is still a choice to some degree. May be an unconscious choice, but still a choice.
Original post by XcitingStuart
Does that mean, despite all these people on the internet claiming that they never chose to be gay, you still think it's a choice?
Of course! All these people on the internet can claim all they like, still doesn't mean they possess a gay gene. If they do, then let's allow science to prove that!
Original post by XcitingStuart
Cynical is a good word actually - but I am not cynical of gay people. Not all gay people are the same.
Original post by XcitingStuart
Who said they were worse, I certainly did not?
Original post by XcitingStuart
Not really no, don't see how it is destructive? It's just my opinion and both of us are entitled to them! I have no problem if you have your own opinion on the matter. If you don't like mine and can't deal with it, I think it is you who have the problem, not me!
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