Should men get equal say in abortion?
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Original post by EC
Men can express their opinion and discuss it with the woman who wishes to get an abortion, but in the end it's her uterus and she gets to make the choice. Everyone has complete control over their own body, so no one could force a woman to have that child or to end the pregnancy if she doesn't want to.
When it comes to couples, they obviously should have the "abortion talk" to see where each other stands, I think it's a huge deal and it should be taken into account in the early stages of dating. But the woman's decision is the final one.
If we think about more extreme cases, such as rape, hookup or other situations that end up with an accidental pregnancy, the intimate relationship is inexistent. Why should a man involved in one of these situations should have the right to tell that woman what to do? The woman's life and body will be drastically changed, not to talk about the emotional side of this. I'm sure men don't have it easy either, but women are way more affected when it comes to pregnancy and abortion.
When it comes to couples, they obviously should have the "abortion talk" to see where each other stands, I think it's a huge deal and it should be taken into account in the early stages of dating. But the woman's decision is the final one.
If we think about more extreme cases, such as rape, hookup or other situations that end up with an accidental pregnancy, the intimate relationship is inexistent. Why should a man involved in one of these situations should have the right to tell that woman what to do? The woman's life and body will be drastically changed, not to talk about the emotional side of this. I'm sure men don't have it easy either, but women are way more affected when it comes to pregnancy and abortion.
It's actually the child's body that she is controlling.
Can you name any other mistake someone can make that makes ending a human life acceptable?
A man is forced to pay for the child is that fair?
Is a mans life not drastically altered? He is no longer free to keep what he earns
Original post by uberteknik
It also leads to back street abortion clinics, high risk of death, infanticide, child neglect, child abuse........
The mother makes her choice. If she decides to keep the baby, their is more than a fair chance the child will be brought up with the full love and protection of it's mother.
If she is forced to have the baby and keep it, can anyone predict whether the outcome will be in the best interests of both child and mother?
The mother makes her choice. If she decides to keep the baby, their is more than a fair chance the child will be brought up with the full love and protection of it's mother.
If she is forced to have the baby and keep it, can anyone predict whether the outcome will be in the best interests of both child and mother?
Are you suggesting death is a better option than life for children?
Why is it that you only apply your principles to certain groups based on characteristics they can not control?
Original post by DarthRoar
Here we go
It's the truth just because you like to deny science and convince yourself ending human life is acceptable it doesn't make you right
Original post by uberteknik
Men are not being forced to have a baby. They are being told to accept their responsibility for the choice they consciously made to have sex knowing the associated risks involved.
The legal age of consent is 16. The legal age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10.
The legal age of consent is 16. The legal age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10.
Ah, I see where this is going. 'Don't have sex if you don't want a baby'.
Original post by joecphillips
Do you not see the huge difference there?
Men if you don't want your life ruined don't have sex.
Women instead of not having sex end a human life.
Men if you don't want your life ruined don't have sex.
Women instead of not having sex end a human life.
I do not see that men's lives are 'ruined' as a result of the woman deciding to go through with the pregnancy.
Affordability is a subjective matter. So the guy has to make do without one or two holidays, perhaps not change his car every year, live in a smaller house, buy a Samsung phone and not an Apple, eat out less in restaurants.........that's hardly having one's life ruined.
I think abortion is wrong.
The default position should be that a human life is not destroyed. For that reason, I don't think men should have any say. If you get a woman pregnant, you are responsible for the baby. The fact a woman has done the right thing, despite potential difficulties and not killed it doesn't get you out of your responsibilities.
Women have equal responsibility but it is different in that it is their body and I don't think it can practically be enforced. I hate the idea it is a choice as if you are deciding whether to buy a dog. No, You have created a human and if you kill it, you better have good reason. But there is nothing that can be done to stop it despite it being wrong.
Woman have the option for biological reasons but ideally they wouldn't and it shouldn't be extended to men. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The default position should be that a human life is not destroyed. For that reason, I don't think men should have any say. If you get a woman pregnant, you are responsible for the baby. The fact a woman has done the right thing, despite potential difficulties and not killed it doesn't get you out of your responsibilities.
Women have equal responsibility but it is different in that it is their body and I don't think it can practically be enforced. I hate the idea it is a choice as if you are deciding whether to buy a dog. No, You have created a human and if you kill it, you better have good reason. But there is nothing that can be done to stop it despite it being wrong.
Woman have the option for biological reasons but ideally they wouldn't and it shouldn't be extended to men. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Original post by uberteknik
I do see the difference. However, the 'equal rights' between men and women does not hold because it is the outcome for the woman where the equation is very unbalanced.
I do not see that men's lives are 'ruined' as a result of the woman deciding to go through with the pregnancy.
Affordability is a subjective matter. So the guy has to make do without one or two holidays, perhaps not change his car every year, live in a smaller house, buy a Samsung phone and not an Apple, eat out less in restaurants.........that's hardly having one's life ruined.
I do not see that men's lives are 'ruined' as a result of the woman deciding to go through with the pregnancy.
Affordability is a subjective matter. So the guy has to make do without one or two holidays, perhaps not change his car every year, live in a smaller house, buy a Samsung phone and not an Apple, eat out less in restaurants.........that's hardly having one's life ruined.
Both parents should be allowed to walk away from a child or neither should I'm on the side of neither because I don't like people ending other people's lives.
So the woman has to make do without one or two holidays, perhaps not change his car every year, live in a smaller house, buy a Samsung phone and not an Apple, eat out less in restaurants.........that's hardly having one's life ruined.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Nirvana1989-1994
Ah, I see where this is going. 'Don't have sex if you don't want a baby'.
Guy's cannot have their cake, eat it, and then not accept going 'dutch' because it suits them financially.
Original post by uberteknik
No. I'm saying, if you choose to have sex, then you also have accepted the responsibility of a potential unwanted pregnancy.
Guy's cannot have their cake, eat it, and then not accept going 'dutch' because it suits them financially.
Guy's cannot have their cake, eat it, and then not accept going 'dutch' because it suits them financially.
You are so hypocritical it's hilarious.
Why do you not apply that argument both ways?
Original post by Mathemagicien
Hmm, where have I heard this argument before?
Do you think these people actually think about what they are saying before posting it?
Original post by Mathemagicien
Hmm, where have I heard this argument before?
Original post by uberteknik
No. I'm saying, if you choose to have sex, then you also have accepted the responsibility of a potential unwanted pregnancy.
Using contraceptive methods is the exact opposite of accepting parental responsibility. If you expect people to not have sex because of a small chance of having a child or abortion, you're quite a silly person.
Original post by joecphillips
It's the truth just because you like to deny science and convince yourself ending human life is acceptable it doesn't make you right
For a large part of the pregnancy it's not even alive and cannot be considered human. Even beyond that point it has no experience, no consciousness, you're not killing a person.
Original post by uberteknik
No. I'm saying, if you choose to have sex, then you also have accepted the responsibility of a potential unwanted pregnancy.
Guy's cannot have their cake, eat it, and then not accept going 'dutch' because it suits them financially.
Guy's cannot have their cake, eat it, and then not accept going 'dutch' because it suits them financially.
Well then what about women?
Original post by joecphillips
You are so hypocritical it's hilarious.
Why do you not apply that argument both ways?
Why do you not apply that argument both ways?
So it does not fit with your own viewpoint.
You have your 'opinion', I have mine.
That you choose to denigrate my viewpoint say's far more about your character than anything else.
Original post by joecphillips
It's actually the child's body that she is controlling.
Can you name any other mistake someone can make that makes ending a human life acceptable?
A man is forced to pay for the child is that fair?
Is a mans life not drastically altered? He is no longer free to keep what he earns
Can you name any other mistake someone can make that makes ending a human life acceptable?
A man is forced to pay for the child is that fair?
Is a mans life not drastically altered? He is no longer free to keep what he earns
When does life begin? The embryo is the youngest form of a being, does it have control over its body? No. It's the mother's uterus and it cannot survive without its mother so it's her choice. Personally, I don't find abortion to be a mistake, but this is an entirely different discussion.
Yes it is fair. If that man was being careless about having unprotected sex and ended up being a father he has to take responsibility, that's the least he could do.
Ohhhhh drastically altered just because he has to pay for his child. Wow.
Original post by Nirvana1989-1994
Well then what about women?
Original post by DarthRoar
Using contraceptive methods is the exact opposite of accepting parental responsibility. If you expect people to not have sex because of a small chance of having a child or abortion, you're quite a silly person.
For a large part of the pregnancy it's not even alive and cannot be considered human. Even beyond that point it has no experience, no consciousness, you're not killing a person.
For a large part of the pregnancy it's not even alive and cannot be considered human. Even beyond that point it has no experience, no consciousness, you're not killing a person.
It is alive from conception, life is "the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death."
Do you disagree with that definition?
Original post by uberteknik
On the contrary, I find the whole subject of abortion exactly the opposite of hilarious.
So it does not fit with your own viewpoint.
You have your 'opinion', I have mine.
That you choose to denigrate my viewpoint say's far more about your character than anything else.
So it does not fit with your own viewpoint.
You have your 'opinion', I have mine.
That you choose to denigrate my viewpoint say's far more about your character than anything else.
I'm asking you why you only apply your view point for one side?
Original post by EC
When does life begin? The embryo is the youngest form of a being, does it have control over its body? No. It's the mother's uterus and it cannot survive without its mother so it's her choice. Personally, I don't find abortion to be a mistake, but this is an entirely different discussion.
Yes it is fair. If that man was being careless about having unprotected sex and ended up being a father he has to take responsibility, that's the least he could do.
Ohhhhh drastically altered just because he has to pay for his child. Wow.
Yes it is fair. If that man was being careless about having unprotected sex and ended up being a father he has to take responsibility, that's the least he could do.
Ohhhhh drastically altered just because he has to pay for his child. Wow.
A definition of life is "the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death."
Do you disagree with that definition?
Do you agree the embryo matches that?
You are basically saying it is ok to kill people who are dependent on you would you apply this to babies and the old?
Should a mother not take responsibility for the mistake? Why are you unwilling to apply this consistently?
A woman's life is drastically altered in the same sense by having a child unless you stick with the sexist belief that it is up to a woman to look after the child.
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