Have Gender and Sexual Identities gone too far?
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Original post by yudothis
Telling me "say X and do Y or I will kill myself" is ultimate gaslighting. How can you deny that?
Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that sows seeds of doubt in a tperson making them question their own memory, perception and/or sanity.
How is telling you that acts such as misgendering lead to trans people to killing themselves making you question your own grip on reality?
They kill themselves because gender dysphoria is distressing and by refering to them as the gender they do identify as you are just commpounding thier distress. Where as if they were free to dress like thier prefered gender, allow medicine to make them feel more like the gender they identify as, all whilst everyone else acts as if they are that gender, greatly improves thier wellbeing for obviouse reasons.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Wanna bet?
We already have doctors being sacked for being transphobes.
We already have doctors being sacked for being transphobes.
There will be a time, possibly sometime soonish or later on where society begins to collapse thanks to the degeneracy that the left is pushing, it will change then. The left already eats itself and the right strengthens itself with nationalism.
Original post by AperfectBalance
There will be a time, possibly sometime soonish or later on where society begins to collapse thanks to the degeneracy that the left is pushing, it will change then. The left already eats itself and the right strengthens itself with nationalism.
It is already not acceptable to be homophobic. You are loosing and we can absoluelty turn the transphobia on its head. i.e trans poeple are welcomed whilst the bigots are shunned.
It can also backfire making the left seen as the only ones defending social liberalism. That is partly what allowed Corbyn to get 40% in the last GE.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that sows seeds of doubt in a tperson making them question their own memory, perception and/or sanity.
How is telling you that acts such as misgendering lead top trans people to killing themselves making you question your own grip on reality?
How is telling you that acts such as misgendering lead top trans people to killing themselves making you question your own grip on reality?
Because the reality of male and female, a reality that has been with us for many many years especially in the west (sure there have been some outliers) is being broken, a reality that is rather close to the fabric of society.
You and other trans activists are bullying others into thinking incorrectly and immorally by stating these deaths are somehow our fault and not those who are mentally weak.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
It is already not acceptable to be homophobic. You are loosing and we can absoluelty turn the transphobia on its head. i.e trans poeple are welcomed whilst bigots like you are shunned.
It will still lead to the collapse of society even if you think you are winning.
It is also because you have shifted the goalposts of homophobia.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that sows seeds of doubt in a tperson making them question their own memory, perception and/or sanity.
How is telling you that acts such as misgendering lead to trans people to killing themselves making you question your own grip on reality?
They kill themselves because gender dysphoria is distressing and by refering to them as the gender they do identify as you are just commpounding thier distress. Where as if they were free to dress like thier prefered gender, allow medicine to make them feel more like the gender they identify as, all whilst everyone else acts as if they are that gender, greatly improves thier wellbeing for obviouse reasons.
How is telling you that acts such as misgendering lead to trans people to killing themselves making you question your own grip on reality?
They kill themselves because gender dysphoria is distressing and by refering to them as the gender they do identify as you are just commpounding thier distress. Where as if they were free to dress like thier prefered gender, allow medicine to make them feel more like the gender they identify as, all whilst everyone else acts as if they are that gender, greatly improves thier wellbeing for obviouse reasons.
But you are manipulating me into saying X and doing Y else you might kill yourself. Self doubt is not the only form of gaslighting. But if you don't like that term here, then replace it with emotional blackmail.
And here is the crux. Feminists used to be very strong supporters of transsexuals. Exactly those people that had dysphoria and just wanted to get on with it, not demanding of women, and they knew that while they could "live like a woman", they weren't actually female. Very often they passed well and had surgery. But somewhere along the line we replaced sex by gender, and everyone who just "felt" like a woman demanded to be a woman, and made sure everyone knows it and loudly demanded women cave in and accept them in their spaces. Ladybeard and ladydick were a logical consequence. And now recently so is transperiod apparently.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Wanna bet?
We already have doctors being sacked for being transphobes.
We already have doctors being sacked for being transphobes.
Aren't you a smug little git.
And no, there will be a backlash, it's already starting with GIDS now acknowledging ROGD for example. The majority of the population isn't even involved in the debate. For sure they don't know that 80% of transwomen keep their **** and now want access to girls' spaces.
When people start saying they are attracted to or identity as inanimate objects I think it’s gone too far
Original post by yudothis
But you are manipulating me into saying X and doing Y else you might kill yourself. Self doubt is not the only form of gaslighting. But if you don't like that term here, then replace it with emotional blackmail.
And here is the crux. Feminists used to be very strong supporters of transsexuals. Exactly those people that had dysphoria and just wanted to get on with it, not demanding of women, and they knew that while they could "live like a woman", they weren't actually female. Very often they passed well and had surgery. But somewhere along the line we replaced sex by gender, and everyone who just "felt" like a woman demanded to be a woman, and made sure everyone knows it and loudly demanded women cave in and accept them in their spaces. Ladybeard and ladydick were a logical consequence. And now recently so is transperiod apparently.
And here is the crux. Feminists used to be very strong supporters of transsexuals. Exactly those people that had dysphoria and just wanted to get on with it, not demanding of women, and they knew that while they could "live like a woman", they weren't actually female. Very often they passed well and had surgery. But somewhere along the line we replaced sex by gender, and everyone who just "felt" like a woman demanded to be a woman, and made sure everyone knows it and loudly demanded women cave in and accept them in their spaces. Ladybeard and ladydick were a logical consequence. And now recently so is transperiod apparently.
Emotional blackmail =/= gaslighting.
It's a fact that misgendering distresses trans people and that trans poeple as a group have really high suicide rates. 50% of trans pupils have tried killing themsleves. If you know that and still misgender poeple (including me) are going to see you as a transphobic bully. The ultimate goal is to have it be as shameful as being outed as a racist.
Not all feminists are terfs...
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Emotional blackmail =/= gaslighting.
It's a fact that misgendering distresses trans people and that trans poeple as a group have really high suicide rates. 50% of trans pupils have tried killing themsleves. If you know that and still misgender poeple (including me) are going to see you as a transphobic bully. The ultimate goal is to have it be as shameful as being outed as a racist.
Not all feminists are terfs...
It's a fact that misgendering distresses trans people and that trans poeple as a group have really high suicide rates. 50% of trans pupils have tried killing themsleves. If you know that and still misgender poeple (including me) are going to see you as a transphobic bully. The ultimate goal is to have it be as shameful as being outed as a racist.
Not all feminists are terfs...
So you are emotionally blackmailing me then? Way to go. Any person not swallowing the dogma can see what a manipulative abuser you are.
Everyone with sense is. Including males in feminism is an oxymoron. Only woke, wannabe nice progressive libfems shut their eyes to it.
Whilst misgendering might distress trans people that isn’t necessarily the cause of the link between being trans and attempting suicide. Do you have any proof that trans pupils are trying to kill themselves solely because of their experience as a trans person? There are also high rates of suicide amongst young men but it isn’t exclusively because they are young men is it. I just think there are a lot of variables and you can’t just say “it’s because they are trans that they are trying to kill themselves” maybe they have clinical depression and are also trans in that case clinical depression doesn’t necessarily have a cause it just *is*
Original post by yudothis
So you are emotionally blackmailing me then? Way to go. Any person not swallowing the dogma can see what a manipulative abuser you are.
Everyone with sense is. Including males in feminism is an oxymoron. Only woke, wannabe nice progressive libfems shut their eyes to it.
Everyone with sense is. Including males in feminism is an oxymoron. Only woke, wannabe nice progressive libfems shut their eyes to it.
We are not in a relationship yudothis. I could say I am trying to appeal to your reason and empathy. But that would be a lie. I'm trying to make you look like an uncaring bigot.
You are not the victim.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
We are not in a relationship yudothis. I could say I am tryiong to appeal yo your reason and empathy. But that would be a lie. I'm trying to make you look like transphobic bigot.
Oh no, you used buzzwords at me, I feel so sad now.
Did I say we are? You are still using emotional blackmail on me and others. As Aperfectbalance also pointed out. Funny how you manage to always dodge the point, you're an incredibly dishonest person.
Reason and empathy is exactly what you lack. Else you wouldn't pretend "transwomen are women" and have so little respect and empathy for women as an ontological class that you think any man can just identify into it.
And I will continue to make you look like a child abuser for supporting giving perfectly healthy kids dangerous drugs like Lupron and encourage especially young girls to cut off their boobs just so your ideology is validated.
(edited 5 years ago)
Yes its gone too far, your either male or female or gay or straight. There is no inbetween for me. You are who you are. One or the other.
Original post by Murgbot
Whilst misgendering might distress trans people that isn’t necessarily the cause of the link between being trans and attempting suicide. Do you have any proof that trans pupils are trying to kill themselves solely because of their experience as a trans person? There are also high rates of suicide amongst young men but it isn’t exclusively because they are young men is it. I just think there are a lot of variables and you can’t just say “it’s because they are trans that they are trying to kill themselves” maybe they have clinical depression and are also trans in that case clinical depression doesn’t necessarily have a cause it just *is*
It is not being trans in itself, it is being trans in a society that does not accept you and the bullying you recieve as a result. Part of that prejudice is poeple who deliberatly go out of their way to misgender them. That fact poeple are trans in the face of all the abuse they get is also evidence for it being more than simply "men infiltrating women's spaces". No one would choose this.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/27/half-of-trans-pupils-in-the-uk-tried-to-take-their-own-lives-survey-finds
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
C*nt also works.
A) Doesn't work on me B) just proves my point.
Oh and, typical leftie attitude, 'pretends to be so woke but really is just a bigot towards different groups'.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
It is not being trans in itself, it is being trans in a society that does not accept you and the bullying you recieve as a result. That fact poeple are trans in the face of all the abuse they get is also evidence for it being more than simply "men infiltrating women's spaces". No one would choose this.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/27/half-of-trans-pupils-in-the-uk-tried-to-take-their-own-lives-survey-finds
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/27/half-of-trans-pupils-in-the-uk-tried-to-take-their-own-lives-survey-finds
I agree that the way society treats people in minorities is not ok. That said, the experiences outlined in that article are not exclusive to LGBT pupils, obviously the transphobia is but CIS pupils who experience bullying go through similar things. I think the issue itself lies in education and how schools handle bullying on the whole. The “don’t go on the Internet then” is an attitude I also experienced at school over 10 years ago now because schools care about their image and if they admit that there is an issue with bullying then they won’t do as well in league tables, OFSTED etc. I’m not denying that transphobia exists and I’m not saying there aren’t people who attempt suicide purely on the basis of their gender identity etc but there are other issues at play. Mental health in teenagers on the whole for example is an issue that is not particularly dealt with well.
Original post by Murgbot
the experiences outlined in that article are not exclusive to LGBT pupils,
Yes, but Trans pupils are more likely to experience bullying due to being trans. That's kind of the point.
Original post by yudothis
A) Doesn't work on me B) just proves my point.
Oh and, typical leftie attitude, 'pretends to be so woke but really is just a bigot towards different groups'.
Oh and, typical leftie attitude, 'pretends to be so woke but really is just a bigot towards different groups'.
I thought bigot was a buzzword. I don't know where you get this idea from that because I am pushing progressive politics means I have to be polite.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Yes, but Trans pupils are more likely to experience bullying due to being trans. That's kind of the point.
I understand that but that’s not what the original question was. The original question was have sexual identities gone too far. I understand that trans people are more likely to be bullied etc but that is more of an issue with the education system and them not teaching equality and tolerance not with sexuality itself. I was just pointing out that suicide amongst trans people is not exclusively because they are trans and perpetuating the idea that it is is not going to solve the issue. Do we need tolerance and education in regards to sexuality and gender? Absolutely but has gender identity gone too far when you no longer fit into male/female/trans? yes
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