Misconception Mondays: Feminism

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chelseadagg3r
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We're back with another Misconception Mondays thread, and this week we're talking about feminism.

You might feel like the definition of feminism is getting too complex and when you say you identify as a feminist that you mean the standard dictionary definition of believing in equal rights, but that this is being misunderstood. You might not completely align yourself with modern feminism but feel demonised without any chance of explanation.

What misconceptions have you seen or experienced?
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username521617
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Feminism has accrued a lot of social and political baggage over the years - especially recently - making it more than simply believing in equal rights (which we now have, and which basically everyone agrees with). So it's not necessarily that misconceptions are to blame.

Feminism has certain problems that make it unattractive to people nowadays:

Firstly, it's highly gynocentric. Feminists and feminist theory will always look at things from a female perspective and with the presupposition that women are the victims. Because of this, more nuanced, balanced views are neglected. Everything is approached from the stance of sexism against women. And when you're a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. So in other words, when you're a feminist, everything starts to look like sexism against women. Even the name feminism alludes to a bias here.

Secondly, feminists have a habit of being a tad melodramatic and spreading misinformation. This may often come in the form of inflated statistics or bunkum like the wage gap and the so-caled pink tax. This becomes easy pickings for skeptics and tarnishes feminist image. People also don't tend to like the idea of quotas and positive discrimination, which feminists often support.

Thirdly, all the ridiculous nonsense we see in the media and from digital rags like Buzzfeed, Vox, and HuffPo doesn't really help the perception of feminism either.

I think my problem and the problem many people have with feminism can be summed up with this satirical headline:

"Comet destroys Earth, women most affected."
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BlueIndigoViolet
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Pretty much my opinion in this video - serves a liberal agenda, and asks for a titled stage towards women i.e. special not equal treatment.

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Pinkisk
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(Original post by chelseadagg3r)
We're back with another Misconception Mondays thread, and this week we're talking about feminism.

You might feel like the definition of feminism is getting too complex and when you say you identify as a feminist that you mean the standard dictionary definition of believing in equal rights, but that this is being misunderstood. You might not completely align yourself with modern feminism but feel demonised without any chance of explanation.

What misconceptions have you seen or experienced?
This reads like its written by someone trying to do some damage control. It reads more like an opinion than a question.

The only misconceptions surrounding feminism are the ones held by its followers towards others in society and not the other way around. These misconceptions held by feminists and encouraged by feminism, often lead them to abuse people around them.
(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
Pretty much my opinion in this video - serves a liberal agenda, and asks for a titled stage towards women i.e. special not equal treatment.

I always recommend the Society for Cutting Up Men Manifesto published by feminist icon Valerie Solanas in the late 60s to people who say 'feminism has changed for the worse. Its no longer what it used to be'. Feminism hasn't changed. Its just, thanks in large part to the internet, become exposed. I highly recommend people read into the history of this ideology and its icons. Its built on a foundation of hate and lies. It was just as full of hate and anger back in the 60s as it is today.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 1 year ago
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Retired_Messiah
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
I always recommend the Society for Cutting Up Men Manifesto published by feminist icon Valerie Solanas in the late 60s to people who say 'feminism has changed for the worse. Its no longer what it used to be'. Feminism hasn't changed. Its just, thanks in large part to the internet, become exposed. I highly recommend people read into the history of this ideology and its icons. Its built on a foundation of hate and lies. It was just as full of hate and anger back in the 60s as it is today.
Tbf Valerie Solanas was an absolute nutter who straight up tried to murder Andy Warhol. She's a bit of a unique case.
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by Retired_Messiah)
Tbf Valerie Solanas was an absolute nutter who straight up tried to murder Andy Warhol. She's a bit of a unique case.
She is considered an icon in feminism. What does that tell you about feminism? Her book was initially banned from publication. Mainstream feminist philosopher Avital Ronell campaigned tirelessly to have the SCUM manifesto unbanned before funding its publication again in the early 70s. She then went on to write the opening for the book. In it she compares Valerie to Jacques Derrida, one of the most prominent philosophers of the 60s and 70s. In this opening she celebrates Valerie and her manifesto of hate. Instead of disciplining Valerie, feminism chose to celebrate her for her hate-filled, violent views towards men. That says a lot about feminism.

Valerie was typical of the 60s feminist. In the 60s feminists used to openly in protests hold banners calling men 'chauvinist pigs' and attempt to murder people that disagreed with them. Just ask Erin Pizzey!!!

'I show the superiority of woman as a factor in civilisation...We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men... women [have] such wisdom and power as no male ever can possess... [women will] be dictators in the social realm' Feminist icon, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, 1922.

'The first males were mutants, freaks produced by some damage to the genes caused perhaps by disease or a radiation bombardment from the sun. Maleness remains a recessive genetic trait like color-blindness and hemophilia with which it is linked. The suspicion that maleness is abnormal and that the Y chromosome is an accidental mutation boding no good for the race is strongly supported by the recent discovery by geneticists that congenital killers and criminals are possessed of not one but two Y chromosomes, bearing a double dose, as it were, of genetically undesirable male-ness. If the Y chromosome is a degeneration and a deformity of the female X chromosome, then the male sex represents a degeneration and deformity of the female.' The First Sex, feminist icon Elizabeth Gould Davis, 1971. Elizabeth is described by feminists not as a sexist 'nut', but as a 'feminist spiritual heroine'. That says a lot about feminism.

'The hatred of women is a source of sexual pleasure for men in its own right. Intercourse appears to be the expression of that contempt in pure form, in the form of a sexed hierarchy; it requires not passion or heart because it is power without invention articulating the arrogance of those who do the f*****g. Intercourse is the pure, sterile, formal, expression of men’s contempt for women' feminist icon Andrea Dworkin in Intercourse 1987.

'I’ve always wanted to see a man beaten to a s**t bloody pulp with a high-heeled shoe stuffed up his mouth, sort of the pig with the apple; it would be good to put him on a serving plate but you’d need good silver' Feminist Icon Andrea Dworkin in Mercy: A Novel 1990.

Definitions taken from ‘A Feminist Dictionary’ by Cheris Kramarae a Professor in gender studies at the university of Illinois. This dictionary was published in 1985
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Feminist-Di.../dp/0863580157

MALE:…represents a variant of or deviation from the category of female.

MAN:…an obsolete life form… an ordinary creature who needs to be watched… a contradictory baby-man

MALFUNCTION: male-function

I can go on and on with more and more examples but I think I've made my point. Namely, that this problem of hate, violence and sexism is not unique to Valerie Solanas and it isn't isolated to current day feminists but is widespread and its proponents are widely celebrated in feminism throughout all its 'waves', which speaks for feminism in all its 'waves'.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 1 year ago
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
Feminism has accrued a lot of social and political baggage over the years - especially recently - making it more than simply believing in equal rights (which we now have, and which basically everyone agrees with). So it's not necessarily that misconceptions are to blame.

Feminism has certain problems that make it unattractive to people nowadays:

Firstly, it's highly gynocentric. Feminists and feminist theory will always look at things from a female perspective and with the presupposition that women are the victims. Because of this, more nuanced, balanced views are neglected. Everything is approached from the stance of sexism against women. And when you're a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. So in other words, when you're a feminist, everything starts to look like sexism against women. Even the name feminism alludes to a bias here.

Secondly, feminists have a habit of being a tad melodramatic and spreading misinformation. This may often come in the form of inflated statistics or bunkum like the wage gap and the so-caled pink tax. This becomes easy pickings for skeptics and tarnishes feminist image. People also don't tend to like the idea of quotas and positive discrimination, which feminists often support.

Thirdly, all the ridiculous nonsense we see in the media and from digital rags like Buzzfeed, Vox, and HuffPo doesn't really help the perception of feminism either.

I think my problem and the problem many people have with feminism can be summed up with this satirical headline:

"Comet destroys Earth, women most affected."
What you have done is what many teachers end up doing by accident. They have a class of pupils where one or two cause massive problems / trouble and then conclude that the whole class are a nightmare. What you have done is paint all feminists with the same brush. Sure, there are some nut-jobs, but then there are nut-job environmentalists and nut-job socialists. It doesn't mean that the underlying "ism" is flawed and almost certainly underestimates the majority of those who claim to be ists or isms who follow it in its simplest form. Feminism = equality for women and you would be hard pushed to find a purist who wouldn't accept that with that goes equality for all. Plain and simple.
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looloo2134
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I think you could say similar things about masculism about it seeing things from a male point of view and taking the stance of sexism against men. There does seem to be a lot of threads about feminism and I don't think I ever have seen a thread about masculism positive or neglective. I just wonder why that is.

I don't know if there are as many people who claim to be masculisms as feminists but there seem to be more news report about feminism and women rights than masculism and men's rights.
(Original post by Dandaman1)
Feminism has accrued a lot of social and political baggage over the years - especially recently - making it more than simply believing in equal rights (which we now have, and which basically everyone agrees with). So it's not necessarily that misconceptions are to blame.

Feminism has certain problems that make it unattractive to people nowadays:

Firstly, it's highly gynocentric. Feminists and feminist theory will always look at things from a female perspective and with the presupposition that women are the victims. Because of this, more nuanced, balanced views are neglected. Everything is approached from the stance of sexism against women. And when you're a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. So in other words, when you're a feminist, everything starts to look like sexism against women. Even the name feminism alludes to a bias here.

Secondly, feminists have a habit of being a tad melodramatic and spreading misinformation. This may often come in the form of inflated statistics or bunkum like the wage gap and the so-caled pink tax. This becomes easy pickings for skeptics and tarnishes feminist image. People also don't tend to like the idea of quotas and positive discrimination, which feminists often support.

Thirdly, all the ridiculous nonsense we see in the media and from digital rags like Buzzfeed, Vox, and HuffPo doesn't really help the perception of feminism either.

I think my problem and the problem many people have with feminism can be summed up with this satirical headline:

"Comet destroys Earth, women most affected."
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Feminism = equality for women and you would be hard pushed to find a purist who wouldn't accept that with that goes equality for all. Plain and simple.
Equality is an objective for many different ideologies with many different contradicting interpretations of right and wrong. Equality tells us nothing about an ideology besides it pursuing equality as an outcome in society. Equality tells us nothing about the principles, teachings and the doctrine of an ideology and the methods by which this ideology encourages it’s followers to pursue this outcome in society. These are all very important factors in understanding an ideology, why people support and appose it and whether or not it is flawed or true.

Communism wants equality. Why isn't everyone a communist? Because most people believe the fundamental doctrine on which this ideology is based is flawed. Capitalism also promotes equality, why then aren’t capitalists communists and vice versa? Because these ideologies hold contradicting doctrines and interpretations of life. Communists think capitalist doctrine is flawed. Capitalists view communist doctrine as being flawed. So equality is on its own not enough to justify support for an ideology.

Feminism is an ideology with a specific doctrine. The majority of people who do not subscribe to feminism believe in equality, but they refuse to subscribe to feminism because they believe that its doctrine is flawed.

Now, it’s important to note that equality is not a quality that all feminist theorists agree on. As in, not all types of feminists believe in equality. One example being equity feminists. These types of feminists appose equality.

It is also important to note that feminists who believe in equality often tend to only ever support equality where it benefits women. These same feminists become very much apposed to equality where it does not benefit women. One example of this is found in the views held by these feminists towards abortion. There is a general consensus among these feminists that men and women should NOT have the same rights in abortion and therefore should not have equality in abortion.

I would not describe feminism as an ideology that pursues equality. This is a description far from being accurate. Firstly, as I mentioned above, it does not apply to all feminists. Secondly, where it does apply to feminists it is not enough in justifying one supporting them as it tells us nothing about their doctrine. Thirdly, where it does apply to feminists, equality is conditional. As in they do not want equality where equality does to benefit their gender.

A more accurate description of feminism is as follows:

Feminism is a marxist ideology that promotes a concept it calls patriarchy by which it claims the world is run. This concept claims that we live in a world run by a system created by men to oppress women. Feminism encourages its followers to remove the patriarchy in pursuit of a fairer society.

This is a more accurate description of feminism. Of course not everyone agrees with it. Disagreeing with feminism, does not mean disagreeing with equality, but with the flawed doctrine on which feminism is based.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 1 year ago
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username521617
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(Original post by ByEeek)
What you have done is what many teachers end up doing by accident. They have a class of pupils where one or two cause massive problems / trouble and then conclude that the whole class are a nightmare. What you have done is paint all feminists with the same brush. Sure, there are some nut-jobs, but then there are nut-job environmentalists and nut-job socialists. It doesn't mean that the underlying "ism" is flawed and almost certainly underestimates the majority of those who claim to be ists or isms who follow it in its simplest form. Feminism = equality for women and you would be hard pushed to find a purist who wouldn't accept that with that goes equality for all. Plain and simple.
No, I haven't. I'm not talking about a minority of radicals here. I'm talking about the feminism we see from columnists in mainstream publications like The Guardian and The Independent, the BBC, and feminism in universites, government and businesses. These feminists still suffer from the core problems I outlined (with the exception of the third). It's a prolific part of mainstream culture and politics.

Feminists try to write off criticism by claiming we're just looking at a minority of bad eggs, when no, we're looking at the mainstream feminist movement as a whole because of its gynocentrism and ingrained victim complex.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
No, I haven't. I'm not talking about a minority of radicals here. I'm talking about the feminism we see from columnists in mainstream publications like The Guardian and The Independent, the BBC, and feminism in universites, government and businesses. These feminists still suffer from the core problems I outlined (with the exception of the third). It's a prolific part of mainstream culture and politics.

Feminists try to write off criticism by claiming we're just looking at a minority of bad eggs, when no, we're looking at the mainstream feminist movement as a whole because of its gynocentrism and ingrained victim complex.
Gosh - a lot of big words. I haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Sounds good though!
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Wangui
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I strongly disapprove the use of the word feminism.....(African 'feminists' are purely gynocentric and have a narrow view of life.....here in Africa in the name of feminism we have promoted incompetence and pure mediocratic work in a bid to embrace women empowerment)
With that said am African Lady who Believes in working your way up....if you prove proficient then opportune times will be your aura



ending note..(sullent ideas are born out of bias minds in the name of feminism)
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