Abortion/"Choice" "debate"
Gonna do anon just because it's controversial af and I don't wanna be grilled... also I know, this topic gets milked to ****/is cliche.
I'm pro choice. I'll just get my stance out there, I'm more just interested in other people's opinions and wanna see people's reasoning. I've had a couple debates about this before.
(If I can add a poll I will to see the majority's view. - I imagine most will be anti as there's quite a large religious presence on here.)
I understand being anti abortion for religious reasons, believe what you want to believe. I (not being religious) don't see this as a reason to be completely against it, but religious people obviously do.
I understand thinking "It's a human life" and that the life shouldn't be ended. There's the common "but it's not TECHNICALLY alive blah blah blah" stuff that gets spurted around.
I feel that the fetus is alive from the moment it is created, I agree with this in which case you could (kinda loosely as it's not really lived so to speak.) call it murder to abort it.
The only issue I do have/want to be answered is why people protest outside abortion clinics and try push laws to ban abortion etc.
I get people have their opinions and reasons, but that to me shouldn't be a reason to completely remove the choice for people that are fine with abortion.
I feel like it should be a choice for this reason, who are you or who is anyone to say what someone else should do? Why can people put laws into place based on opinion alone?
There are no facts when it comes to abortion. (Unless there is in which case you can very easily change my mind with a few sources.)
-Religion isn't a fact.
-Nor is the "well you're killing someone so it's murder, murder is illegal, why isn't this?"
There's no "debate" in my eyes either, more so a slurry of opinions which are set by moral reasoning, not facts.
>>>Nobody is right<<< I can't emphasize this enough, I'm not right when it comes to this as there is no correct opinion. Since there is no obvious right or wrong then why can we set a law to ban an 'activity'? -(not a good word for it.)
I hope you understand my thought process and can actually tell me your opinion also, feel free to anon if you want, I don't mind.
Gonna add a 2nd post about laws in general. My opinions are kinda 'wild' I guess so yea.
I'm pro choice. I'll just get my stance out there, I'm more just interested in other people's opinions and wanna see people's reasoning. I've had a couple debates about this before.
(If I can add a poll I will to see the majority's view. - I imagine most will be anti as there's quite a large religious presence on here.)
I understand being anti abortion for religious reasons, believe what you want to believe. I (not being religious) don't see this as a reason to be completely against it, but religious people obviously do.
I understand thinking "It's a human life" and that the life shouldn't be ended. There's the common "but it's not TECHNICALLY alive blah blah blah" stuff that gets spurted around.
I feel that the fetus is alive from the moment it is created, I agree with this in which case you could (kinda loosely as it's not really lived so to speak.) call it murder to abort it.
The only issue I do have/want to be answered is why people protest outside abortion clinics and try push laws to ban abortion etc.
I get people have their opinions and reasons, but that to me shouldn't be a reason to completely remove the choice for people that are fine with abortion.
I feel like it should be a choice for this reason, who are you or who is anyone to say what someone else should do? Why can people put laws into place based on opinion alone?
There are no facts when it comes to abortion. (Unless there is in which case you can very easily change my mind with a few sources.)
-Religion isn't a fact.
-Nor is the "well you're killing someone so it's murder, murder is illegal, why isn't this?"
There's no "debate" in my eyes either, more so a slurry of opinions which are set by moral reasoning, not facts.
>>>Nobody is right<<< I can't emphasize this enough, I'm not right when it comes to this as there is no correct opinion. Since there is no obvious right or wrong then why can we set a law to ban an 'activity'? -(not a good word for it.)
I hope you understand my thought process and can actually tell me your opinion also, feel free to anon if you want, I don't mind.
Gonna add a 2nd post about laws in general. My opinions are kinda 'wild' I guess so yea.
A further thing, (May be a crazy statement) but who's really to say murder is a bad thing? It's bad as we say it's bad, that's really the only reason.
Who's to say anything is bad? Getting philosophical here eh guys? Obviously I'm not excusing murderers or rapists or anything like that, I agree that it's a bad thing but I think that's just because I was brought up being told this.
If I was in some random place with not so defined laws then I'd probably be ok with the concept of murder, rape etc. Some cultures im sure are fine with it. - We however as western societies see this as barbaric. (God, this'll make me look like a troll but I remember reading on a thread on TSR - I know, SUPER reliable that in the quaran it had a passage about the woman not being allowed to refuse sex. (But surely that's rape?) I'm not wanting to spark a religious debate but it's showing that societies view points change dramatically over time - I'm sure a lot/all people who read this in the book would disregard it as stupid.. hopefully. I imagine all regions disregard things that are unrealistic/frowned upon in todays society).
Don't get me wrong, laws against murder and rape and what not are perfectly fine I feel like they're kinda needed for society to be peaceful and to progress, killing people does nothing to advance humanity. I agree with having them in place as it ya know, helps stop these crimes. Nobody wants to be murdered, raped or assaulted.
Nobody does. Nobody likes these things. None of these things do anything to better us.
I guess I'm trying to show why I think the "abortion is murder" thing is a bit stupid, it plays on the emotions of women getting abortions by using harsh wording.. Views can change, we did public executions and tortured people for fun maybe less than 500 years ago.. You could say us not doing this now is showing how much we've progressed as a society but I'd say it's just a stepping stone to getting somewhere better.
The best society I can picture is one where there are no laws, people just know what not to do. They think "will this action lead to society advancing? or will it harm society?" and act based on that. Murder would probably harm society and so people just don't do it. Obviously nobody will ever agree and so it's all impossible, there will always be murderers. Anyways on a tangent but I thought I'd kinda.
Who's to say certain laws wont be removed such as "don't murder anyone" in future? In which case we may look like the weirdos for saying for a brief time that it was bad to kill people.
Who's to say anything is bad? Getting philosophical here eh guys? Obviously I'm not excusing murderers or rapists or anything like that, I agree that it's a bad thing but I think that's just because I was brought up being told this.
If I was in some random place with not so defined laws then I'd probably be ok with the concept of murder, rape etc. Some cultures im sure are fine with it. - We however as western societies see this as barbaric. (God, this'll make me look like a troll but I remember reading on a thread on TSR - I know, SUPER reliable that in the quaran it had a passage about the woman not being allowed to refuse sex. (But surely that's rape?) I'm not wanting to spark a religious debate but it's showing that societies view points change dramatically over time - I'm sure a lot/all people who read this in the book would disregard it as stupid.. hopefully. I imagine all regions disregard things that are unrealistic/frowned upon in todays society).
Don't get me wrong, laws against murder and rape and what not are perfectly fine I feel like they're kinda needed for society to be peaceful and to progress, killing people does nothing to advance humanity. I agree with having them in place as it ya know, helps stop these crimes. Nobody wants to be murdered, raped or assaulted.
Nobody does. Nobody likes these things. None of these things do anything to better us.
I guess I'm trying to show why I think the "abortion is murder" thing is a bit stupid, it plays on the emotions of women getting abortions by using harsh wording.. Views can change, we did public executions and tortured people for fun maybe less than 500 years ago.. You could say us not doing this now is showing how much we've progressed as a society but I'd say it's just a stepping stone to getting somewhere better.
The best society I can picture is one where there are no laws, people just know what not to do. They think "will this action lead to society advancing? or will it harm society?" and act based on that. Murder would probably harm society and so people just don't do it. Obviously nobody will ever agree and so it's all impossible, there will always be murderers. Anyways on a tangent but I thought I'd kinda.
Who's to say certain laws wont be removed such as "don't murder anyone" in future? In which case we may look like the weirdos for saying for a brief time that it was bad to kill people.
This will be my last post for a while so the discussion can start, but I just wanted to kinda show my point as I know someone may take this and respond "well how does abortion better us?" There's reasons for and against abortion in this sense:
On one hand you could say that abortion does better us as it's giving 1 or 2 people more time to do work such as science etc/be productive
You could also say it harms our society as a life is lost which could have done great things etc.
There's no argument from either side that is more valid than the other.
You could say sex is not benefiting society as it's a waste of time, which it doesn't unless for reproductive purposes. I could argue however that it increases happiness or whatever but yea as I said there's no clear cut "right" opinion as theres no facts.
Anyways imma stop now, Reply all you want or add your own input regardless of your view.
On one hand you could say that abortion does better us as it's giving 1 or 2 people more time to do work such as science etc/be productive
You could also say it harms our society as a life is lost which could have done great things etc.
There's no argument from either side that is more valid than the other.
You could say sex is not benefiting society as it's a waste of time, which it doesn't unless for reproductive purposes. I could argue however that it increases happiness or whatever but yea as I said there's no clear cut "right" opinion as theres no facts.
Anyways imma stop now, Reply all you want or add your own input regardless of your view.
You could have just searched for previous threads about abortion instead of trying to create another debate
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Anonymous
Gonna do anon just because it's controversial af and I don't wanna be grilled... also I know, this topic gets milked to ****/is cliche.
I'm pro choice. I'll just get my stance out there, I'm more just interested in other people's opinions and wanna see people's reasoning. I've had a couple debates about this before.
(If I can add a poll I will to see the majority's view. - I imagine most will be anti as there's quite a large religious presence on here.)
I understand being anti abortion for religious reasons, believe what you want to believe. I (not being religious) don't see this as a reason to be completely against it, but religious people obviously do.
I understand thinking "It's a human life" and that the life shouldn't be ended. There's the common "but it's not TECHNICALLY alive blah blah blah" stuff that gets spurted around.
I feel that the fetus is alive from the moment it is created, I agree with this in which case you could (kinda loosely as it's not really lived so to speak.) call it murder to abort it.
The only issue I do have/want to be answered is why people protest outside abortion clinics and try push laws to ban abortion etc.
I get people have their opinions and reasons, but that to me shouldn't be a reason to completely remove the choice for people that are fine with abortion.
I feel like it should be a choice for this reason, who are you or who is anyone to say what someone else should do? Why can people put laws into place based on opinion alone?
There are no facts when it comes to abortion. (Unless there is in which case you can very easily change my mind with a few sources.)
-Religion isn't a fact.
-Nor is the "well you're killing someone so it's murder, murder is illegal, why isn't this?"
There's no "debate" in my eyes either, more so a slurry of opinions which are set by moral reasoning, not facts.
>>>Nobody is right<<< I can't emphasize this enough, I'm not right when it comes to this as there is no correct opinion. Since there is no obvious right or wrong then why can we set a law to ban an 'activity'? -(not a good word for it.)
I hope you understand my thought process and can actually tell me your opinion also, feel free to anon if you want, I don't mind.
Gonna add a 2nd post about laws in general. My opinions are kinda 'wild' I guess so yea.
I'm pro choice. I'll just get my stance out there, I'm more just interested in other people's opinions and wanna see people's reasoning. I've had a couple debates about this before.
(If I can add a poll I will to see the majority's view. - I imagine most will be anti as there's quite a large religious presence on here.)
I understand being anti abortion for religious reasons, believe what you want to believe. I (not being religious) don't see this as a reason to be completely against it, but religious people obviously do.
I understand thinking "It's a human life" and that the life shouldn't be ended. There's the common "but it's not TECHNICALLY alive blah blah blah" stuff that gets spurted around.
I feel that the fetus is alive from the moment it is created, I agree with this in which case you could (kinda loosely as it's not really lived so to speak.) call it murder to abort it.
The only issue I do have/want to be answered is why people protest outside abortion clinics and try push laws to ban abortion etc.
I get people have their opinions and reasons, but that to me shouldn't be a reason to completely remove the choice for people that are fine with abortion.
I feel like it should be a choice for this reason, who are you or who is anyone to say what someone else should do? Why can people put laws into place based on opinion alone?
There are no facts when it comes to abortion. (Unless there is in which case you can very easily change my mind with a few sources.)
-Religion isn't a fact.
-Nor is the "well you're killing someone so it's murder, murder is illegal, why isn't this?"
There's no "debate" in my eyes either, more so a slurry of opinions which are set by moral reasoning, not facts.
>>>Nobody is right<<< I can't emphasize this enough, I'm not right when it comes to this as there is no correct opinion. Since there is no obvious right or wrong then why can we set a law to ban an 'activity'? -(not a good word for it.)
I hope you understand my thought process and can actually tell me your opinion also, feel free to anon if you want, I don't mind.
Gonna add a 2nd post about laws in general. My opinions are kinda 'wild' I guess so yea.
1. there are more than religious reasons to be against abortions. however, for an individual to have religious reasons attached to a stance can help that individual. for a religious person who may be for abortion, considering their own belief system can alter their opinion - which has happened. many quote Bible/God for their transition from for abortion to against abortion. Depends on what aspects in life is important.
I'd suggest visiting this site for individuals with secular backgrounds: http://www.prolifehumanists.org/
2. what are facts?
what qualifies as facts?
how do we know a thing is a fact?
Original post by Anonymous
A further thing, (May be a crazy statement) but who's really to say murder is a bad thing? It's bad as we say it's bad, that's really the only reason.
Who's to say anything is bad? Getting philosophical here eh guys? Obviously I'm not excusing murderers or rapists or anything like that, I agree that it's a bad thing but I think that's just because I was brought up being told this.
If I was in some random place with not so defined laws then I'd probably be ok with the concept of murder, rape etc. Some cultures im sure are fine with it. - We however as western societies see this as barbaric. (God, this'll make me look like a troll but I remember reading on a thread on TSR - I know, SUPER reliable that in the quaran it had a passage about the woman not being allowed to refuse sex. (But surely that's rape?) I'm not wanting to spark a religious debate but it's showing that societies view points change dramatically over time - I'm sure a lot/all people who read this in the book would disregard it as stupid.. hopefully. I imagine all regions disregard things that are unrealistic/frowned upon in todays society).
Don't get me wrong, laws against murder and rape and what not are perfectly fine I feel like they're kinda needed for society to be peaceful and to progress, killing people does nothing to advance humanity. I agree with having them in place as it ya know, helps stop these crimes. Nobody wants to be murdered, raped or assaulted.
Nobody does. Nobody likes these things. None of these things do anything to better us.
I guess I'm trying to show why I think the "abortion is murder" thing is a bit stupid, it plays on the emotions of women getting abortions by using harsh wording.. Views can change, we did public executions and tortured people for fun maybe less than 500 years ago.. You could say us not doing this now is showing how much we've progressed as a society but I'd say it's just a stepping stone to getting somewhere better.
The best society I can picture is one where there are no laws, people just know what not to do. They think "will this action lead to society advancing? or will it harm society?" and act based on that. Murder would probably harm society and so people just don't do it. Obviously nobody will ever agree and so it's all impossible, there will always be murderers. Anyways on a tangent but I thought I'd kinda.
Who's to say certain laws wont be removed such as "don't murder anyone" in future? In which case we may look like the weirdos for saying for a brief time that it was bad to kill people.
Who's to say anything is bad? Getting philosophical here eh guys? Obviously I'm not excusing murderers or rapists or anything like that, I agree that it's a bad thing but I think that's just because I was brought up being told this.
If I was in some random place with not so defined laws then I'd probably be ok with the concept of murder, rape etc. Some cultures im sure are fine with it. - We however as western societies see this as barbaric. (God, this'll make me look like a troll but I remember reading on a thread on TSR - I know, SUPER reliable that in the quaran it had a passage about the woman not being allowed to refuse sex. (But surely that's rape?) I'm not wanting to spark a religious debate but it's showing that societies view points change dramatically over time - I'm sure a lot/all people who read this in the book would disregard it as stupid.. hopefully. I imagine all regions disregard things that are unrealistic/frowned upon in todays society).
Don't get me wrong, laws against murder and rape and what not are perfectly fine I feel like they're kinda needed for society to be peaceful and to progress, killing people does nothing to advance humanity. I agree with having them in place as it ya know, helps stop these crimes. Nobody wants to be murdered, raped or assaulted.
Nobody does. Nobody likes these things. None of these things do anything to better us.
I guess I'm trying to show why I think the "abortion is murder" thing is a bit stupid, it plays on the emotions of women getting abortions by using harsh wording.. Views can change, we did public executions and tortured people for fun maybe less than 500 years ago.. You could say us not doing this now is showing how much we've progressed as a society but I'd say it's just a stepping stone to getting somewhere better.
The best society I can picture is one where there are no laws, people just know what not to do. They think "will this action lead to society advancing? or will it harm society?" and act based on that. Murder would probably harm society and so people just don't do it. Obviously nobody will ever agree and so it's all impossible, there will always be murderers. Anyways on a tangent but I thought I'd kinda.
Who's to say certain laws wont be removed such as "don't murder anyone" in future? In which case we may look like the weirdos for saying for a brief time that it was bad to kill people.
3. if something is outright objectively wrong, how would we come to conclude it to be wrong?
Original post by da_nolo
2. what are facts?
what qualifies as facts?
how do we know a thing is a fact?
2. what are facts?
what qualifies as facts?
how do we know a thing is a fact?
you sound like Frank Turek😁😁
Original post by Leviathan1611
you sound like Frank Turek😁😁
never met him. I'll watch some vids maybe?
to be honest I wanted to go a little further with that to find out who is who and what is what, but sometimes humor doesn't translate.
(edited 4 years ago)
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