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Israel or Palestine- who's the 'bad' guy?

Reply 40

Organ

13

Wow what an enlightening question.

Reply 41

ak137

3

If you go to Israel/Palestine, you will find both Israelis and Palestinians overwhelmingly want peace. The problem is: the Israeli settlers, the Israeli government, the Palestinian leadership and the people that interfere with either side.

In short...

Long Live Palestine! :pal:

Reply 42

LondonBoy16

no i did not say that. you are twisting my words
there has been a constant presence of Jews in Israel for thousands of years ... so we definatley have a claim to the land..currently palestinians are being used as a political tools by arabs so show there disapproval of jews being back in the middle east. an you please not stereotype as Jews have come from Israel and Arab countries like Yemen Morocco syria Lebanon Iran Iraq after being attacked, experiencing pogroms and massacres

Reply 43

LondonBoy16

Original post by ak137

If you go to Israel/Palestine, you will find both Israelis and Palestinians overwhelmingly want peace. The problem is: the Israeli settlers, the Israeli government, the Palestinian leadership and the people that interfere with either side.

In short...

Long Live Palestine! :pal:

what about the extreme hatred form some palestinians and intolerance preached on tv shows, naming terrorists heros surely that is the cause of the problem

:israel:

Reply 44

prog2djent

Neither.

One is the continual agressor which gives its people many freedoms.

One was the victim which suppresses its people, and others.

Palestine is a political tool for the Arab World and russia.

Israel is a political tool for the USA and China.

Problem is palestine is home to hamas and many salafi arganisations.

And Israel is home to some Extreme nationalists.

I think if you spoke to the average palestinian and average Israeli, who would seem more peaceful, liberal and tolerant?

Reply 45

ak137

3

Original post by LondonBoy16

what about the extreme hatred form some palestinians and intolerance preached on tv shows, naming terrorists heros surely that is the cause of the problem

:israel:

Israel is a terrorist state, which has done the same, even worse.

Last week, Israel launched an attack against Gaza killing children, women and men. And Hamas retaliated because of Israel.

Long Live Palestine. :pal:

Reply 46

Dirac Delta Function

14

Original post by ak137

Israel is a terrorist state, which has done the same, even worse.

Last week, Israel launched an attack against Gaza killing children, women and men. And Hamas retaliated because of Israel.

Long Live Palestine. :pal:

Palestinians are terrorist vermin.

Reply 47

ak137

3

Original post by Dirac Delta Function

Palestinians are terrorist vermin.

Very thoughtful response. :pal:

Reply 48

Dirac Delta Function

14

Original post by ak137

Very thoughtful response. :pal:

glad to be of service.

Reply 49

Organ

13

Original post by Dirac Delta Function

Palestinians are terrorist vermin.

Aren't you Iraqi? Is it because of the Palestinian support for Saddam?

Reply 50

ALII

5

Original post by patrickinator

TOO DIFFICULT TO CALL. Personally I think Israel was the evil one at the beginning because of the mass immigration into the area and then the 1948 war etc. But now I think the Palestinians at the bad people because they are determined to destroy Israel and are completely anti-sematic. anyway, maybe my insignificant and ignorant views are not worthy :confused:

How can Palestinians be anti-sematic, when they semites them themselves?

Reply 51

fuze-mo25

4

Original post by Anna_Karenina

Palestine hands down.

may i ask why you think so?

Reply 52

4RealBlud

19

Original post by LondonBoy16

no i did not say that. you are twisting my words
there has been a constant presence of Jews in Israel for thousands of years ... so we definatley have a claim to the land..currently palestinians are being used as a political tools by arabs so show there disapproval of jews being back in the middle east. an you please not stereotype as Jews have come from Israel and Arab countries like Yemen Morocco syria Lebanon Iran Iraq after being attacked, experiencing pogroms and massacres

Demonstration of lack of knowledge #1: Iran is an arab country....

Yes...there has been jewish presence for a very long time, but there has also been an arab one for just as long as the jews. That's my point, how come depsite both of them being there for so long only one of them claim the land, the whole land? Palestinians are not being used as tools, they are living there as they have been for thousands of years. You do realise that arabs and jews are almost the same people, ethnically i mean? So that really is no surprise. FYI, you still havent answered my point about jews having not lived in palestine for hundreds of years being given more rights than palestinians.

Original post by LondonBoy16

what about the extreme hatred form some palestinians and intolerance preached on tv shows, naming terrorists heros surely that is the cause of the problem

:israel:

Well, what do you expect from a group of ppl who have been forced out of their homes, displaced, have had ethnic cleansing upon them and oppressed to live in deprivation? Love? This is natural human reaction. They are probably especially pissed off, because whilst from WWI to WWII, when the europeans had been discriminating the jews, the arabs aided and accepted them and allowed them flourish in the middle-east. IOW, they got spat and trodden on the very people theu helped out.

Reply 53

Organ

13

Original post by ak137

the Palestinian leadership

It's interesting you mention that. The western left is basically racist about the Middle East. If Israelis do something bad, they're attacked because there's an assumption they should know better. But when people in Arab countries behave in worse ways they're left in relative peace because there's a racist assumption that primitive little people who tend to have darker skins couldn't possibly know better. It's called the racism of low expectations.

We are where we are. Some sort of two-state solution is the only one that could concievably work. But so long as Netanyahu is in power, absolutely zero chance of any progress on that road.

I'm not an expert on this conflict because I actually find it boring and frustrating, but why did Abbas turn down this plan in 2008?

Spoiler

Reply 54

ALII

5

Original post by tufc

Palestine are 100% the bad guys. Israel is a fantastic nation.

Haha can't take you seriously when you have picture of a racist and an Islamophobe :pal:

Reply 55

Organ

13

Original post by 4RealBlud

Well, what do you expect from a group of ppl who have been forced out of their homes, displaced, have had ethnic cleansing upon them and oppressed to live in deprivation? Love? This is natural human reaction. They are probably especially pissed off, because whilst from WWI to WWII, when the europeans had been discriminating the jews, the arabs aided and accepted them and allowed them flourish in the middle-east. IOW, they got spat and trodden on the very people theu helped out.

This is the problem. You have to detach emotion from it and look at what has happened rationally.

You seem to be unaware of the 1937 Peel Report or the 1939 British White Paper, both imposed by the colonial power on Palestine, both highly favourable (particularly the 1939 White Paper) to the Palestinians, and yet rejected by the Palestinians. In 1939 it stated that Jewish immigration would be severely limited for 5 years then ended altogether, giving the Palestinians a 3:1 majority in population. This would then be followed by the creation of a single independent state in which the Palestinians would have a huge majority. The Palestinians rejected this- a one-state solution which they would have ruled. And do you want to know why they rejected such a favourable deal? Or perhaps you would rather not know because it reflects rather badly on the then Palestinian leader, Haj Amin. Let me give you a clude: It wasn't good enough for him because the Jewish minority would be given full citizenship of the new state.

Yes, the Zionists were greedy and ambitious and had their own agenda- but the Palestinians bear as much responsibility for the tragedy of 1948. It never ceases to surprise me how little some posters know about the History of the Palestinian people who they support. It's not angels v devils, good v evil, colonialists v natives- both sides have at times been as bad as each other.

Some left because they were ordered to and were deliberately incited into panic by their own leaders who wanted the field cleared for the 1948 war. Some, indeed, were forced out by the Israeli troops. The picture is much more complicated than your simplistic view. And, it is important to remember there was a war on, which started when multiple Arab armies attacked newly born Israel. By the way, there were also thousands of Jews murdered or forced out of their homes by the Arab armies. Somehow you ignore them. I wonder why.

In the present day Israel enjoys the position of being the dominant force, and has behaved appallingly in a large number of areas.

Reply 56

Dirac Delta Function

14

Original post by Organ

Aren't you Iraqi? Is it because of the Palestinian support for Saddam?

That's only part of their ugliness.

We've caught lots of them trying to blow up crowds and mosques in Iraq. They are a horrid bunch of people who have exploited the good will of European lefties in the propaganda war with Israel.

I'm not saying Israel is innocent, but the Palestinians are not deserving of much sympathy. They are hypocrites to the extreme, berating Israel for terrorism whilst encouraging and lauding it themselves.

Reply 57

Numan786

20

Original post by ronki23

But that's one of the questions that has made it all the more confusing,

If the Arabs don't care, why don't the Jews rebuild the Temple-unless it's the land Arabs care of (but really-it wasn't even considered Holy until 1967 as many debated that Muhammed Spiritually went there).

I'm still confused about it as many of my non-Palestinian Muslim friends (Saudi Arabia, Oman, Lebanon, Guinea,etc.) go around posting articles/videos on facebook of how the Jews are wrong and how they are outraged by Israel.

what temple are we talking about here???

Reply 58

AdvanceAndVanquish

12

Original post by ALII

How can Palestinians be anti-sematic, when they semites them themselves?

The term 'anti-semitic' refers to prejudice against and hatred of Jews; despite its etymological link with the word 'semitic' it does not mean hatred of semites.