Were my parents fair to do this regarding accommodation?
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Original post by olympicdude
What can I do? My dad will never back down. He gets kicks out of being stubborn. He won't back down or see sense.
Try to talk to your mum and see if she will sign it without the knowledge of your dad? Or your gran? It's not an ideal situation, but you are somewhat desperate here. The last resort is forging a signature - but technically that is fraud.
Has he actually stated the reason why he's unwilling to pay?
Original post by cl_steele
Contrary to popular belief i must say i dont think your parents are out of line at all...
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
I can pay everything myself so I will never need to fall back on them bar some catastrophic spending errors. I don't have halls to fall back on- nice assumption matey but you are wrong.
Original post by olympicdude
No I don't stay in touch with my relatives other than my gran and I don't think it's fair to ask.
.
.
I agree it might not be fair if it would end up with her having to pay, but as you have documents and stuff to prove she wouldnt and that your finances would cover it, then surely just asking her to sign a form would be fine?
Original post by cl_steele
Contrary to popular belief i must say i dont think your parents are out of line at all...
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
but the OP has enough money to support themselves, how much more self reliant can they be? some contracts just require a guarantor regardless of financial situation, and they can't help that. i'm going into halls of residence and i had to have a guarantor, so i'm not sure what you mean by "this route"? besides, student housing tends to be a cheaper option so surely it's the more sensible 'route'.
Original post by olympicdude
I have contacted the letting agencies (2 of them). They need a guarantor and refuse to do it any other way.
I have contacted the letting agencies (2 of them). They need a guarantor and refuse to do it any other way.
This seems an unlikely situation, are you sure they understood what you meant because a letting agency would probably love to have the entire amount paid upfront rather than monthly as more money is made this way. If not, try contacting the landlord as it might be the agency screwing you (they could be worried the landlord won't need them for some reason if you do this and so are not asking him if he/she wants it or not - and I am sure the landlord would).
All student places I know that ask for a guarantor state that this is only if paying by instalments. Ring up and try again, offer the entire year upfront.
Original post by Juno
They're not out of order at all.
You should never sign to be a guarantor unless you can afford to write the money off. The landlord wouldn't be asking for a guarantor in the first place if it was that certain you'd be able to pay!
You should never sign to be a guarantor unless you can afford to write the money off. The landlord wouldn't be asking for a guarantor in the first place if it was that certain you'd be able to pay!
You're in for a shock when you enter the real world, as this is nonsense.
Original post by mabrookes
You're in for a shock when you enter the real world, as this is nonsense.
Darling, I have my own flat and a full time job. How much more "real world" could I get? It's not nonsense at all.
Original post by Juno
Darling, I have my own flat and a full time job. How much more "real world" could I get? It's not nonsense at all.
Yes it is, landlords (including a few in my family) ask for gaurantors all the time as a matter of course. It is completely normal, everywhere.
And I am not sure how owning a flat or having a full time job make you knowledgeable on renting - in fact owning a flat makes you not know about it so nice admission there.
(lol did you neg as well, if so that is very funny.)
I agree that if you can't go to anyone paying upfront for a large amount is probably your only option if you want to go. As people have said this is dangerous as you've got a bit less leeway if something goes wrong (though legally you're just as protected by the contract). If you do this just make sure you get full receipts, read the contract properly as always (preferably have your uni read it). The uni could also provide other advice on your situation and as said above there's no harm in asking them if they could act as guarantor. They may do it, at the end of the day if you don't pay they can just withhold your degree so it's not much of a risk for them.
I haven't ever encountered a landlord or agency who would let to a full-time student without a guarantor. My experience is mostly restricted to one city but it's many many agencies within that city, plus friends in other UK cities. they just don't trust students regardless of how much money you do or will have, and they are rarely short of tenants so they have the luxury to only accept what they want. Do your parents realise this is a nationwide standard for students, regardless of their income or savings?
xxx
I haven't ever encountered a landlord or agency who would let to a full-time student without a guarantor. My experience is mostly restricted to one city but it's many many agencies within that city, plus friends in other UK cities. they just don't trust students regardless of how much money you do or will have, and they are rarely short of tenants so they have the luxury to only accept what they want. Do your parents realise this is a nationwide standard for students, regardless of their income or savings?
xxx
Original post by Juno
The landlord wouldn't be asking for a guarantor in the first place if it was that certain you'd be able to pay!
And how can a landlord be sure that any student will be able to pay for the whole year?
Not many students are in the OP's position and able to afford rent for the whole year up front.
My parents are landlords for a student house and up to this year never asked for guarantors. This year they have started asking because they have had problems with students not paying on time and coming up with feeble excuses. Now they are asking for guarantors they are finding out that it is the norm to ask for it.
Original post by olympicdude
Would a university sign as a guarantor for a letting agency? Something tells me they wouldn't.
illyas says that is not a good idea.
What can I do? My dad will never back down. He gets kicks out of being stubborn. He won't back down or see sense.
illyas says that is not a good idea.
What can I do? My dad will never back down. He gets kicks out of being stubborn. He won't back down or see sense.
I already told you, he's a prick.
Original post by olympicdude
Is this a good idea?
Is this a good idea?
It might be your only option. Have you told your dad that every landlord asks for one. Maybe he only thinks it's certain ones. Are they wanting you to go to uni? Tell him that without one, you can't get any accommodation, and without accomodation, you can't go to uni.
Original post by Ollieeeee
Hate to be the one to tell you this OP, but your dad is a complete prick.
I think the father has made a smart move declining to be guarantor. Unless you're a lawyer specialising in tenant rights or something, I would assume a guarantor would be liable for an uninsured burned down house etc. Don't assume that a guarantor is only liable to pay for a few months of rent..
Every part of dealing with accommodation is a complete pain in the ass.
Original post by usernonapplicable
I think the father has made a smart move declining to be guarantor. Unless you're a lawyer specialising in tenant rights or something, I would assume a guarantor would be liable for an uninsured burned down house etc. Don't assume that a guarantor is only liable to pay for a few months of rent..
Every part of dealing with accommodation is a complete pain in the ass.
Every part of dealing with accommodation is a complete pain in the ass.
It's really not a pain in the ass. OP has found a place to live and has to have a guarantor to live in this place. His dad is the only person stopping him from doing so.
Your dad is such a meanie. There doesn't seem any point in pursuing it. Try to see if anyone else can be your Guarantor.
Original post by olympicdude
I need to find a place to live for university next year. I have been on a gap year and I have to choose off campus. I found two great places but the agencies needed guarantors from my parents. A guarantor is a person who pays for the rent if I can't pay it so my parents would pay if I can't pay.
My parents point blanc refused to be guarantors and they said they wouldn't be persuaded. I am very careful with money, I have quite a lot of money saved up and I could pay the rent several times over, that's how much money I have saved up. Even so, my parents refuse.
Term is about a month from starting. I haven't found a place to live and I could end up with nowhere or a ****ty place in a poor location at best, never having met the people or even looked at the place beforehand. Were my parents fair to do this?
My parents point blanc refused to be guarantors and they said they wouldn't be persuaded. I am very careful with money, I have quite a lot of money saved up and I could pay the rent several times over, that's how much money I have saved up. Even so, my parents refuse.
Term is about a month from starting. I haven't found a place to live and I could end up with nowhere or a ****ty place in a poor location at best, never having met the people or even looked at the place beforehand. Were my parents fair to do this?
If you have savings which are three times the yearly rent (usual requirement for renting a place is that you earn three times the yearly rent, or need a guarantor that earns that much - but quite a few agents accept savings), that should be sufficient proof of income for most estate agencies. Either that, or try and 'bribe' the agent by offering a years rent in advance (or however long the tenancy agreement is) and/or a bigger deposit.
It isn't very fair on you no, but it is a situation that can be worked through. My mum is retired without a private pension, so I had to explore the other options for proving I could pay the rent, in the end last year my mum could act as a guarantor on her savings, this year they didn't credit check me, so I didn't need a guarantor.
Original post by olympicdude
It's not fair to ask a friend to do it. Can you imagine me asking a friend 'I need a guarantor for a property which means you pay if I can't. I have enough savings so you won't have to pay' 'why won't your parents give guarantees?' 'because they don't want to sign a contract with a landlord and because there's the tiniest of chances they will have to pay for something which they refuse to do because they don't want to be open to legal action'.
Not all landlords ask for it (the majority don't). I know this from anecdotal evidence from friends and family who have rented before. Believe me I have tried. I have asked if I can pay up front in advance to my parents. They refuse (My dad refuses. My mum goes along with it because she is too scared to disagree and my dad has total control of the finances).
Is this a good idea?
He hasn't had any criminal convictions as far as I know. His credit rating is fine as far as I know. He preaches about how he loathes criminals and how I should be ultra careful with my money.
Not all landlords ask for it (the majority don't). I know this from anecdotal evidence from friends and family who have rented before. Believe me I have tried. I have asked if I can pay up front in advance to my parents. They refuse (My dad refuses. My mum goes along with it because she is too scared to disagree and my dad has total control of the finances).
Is this a good idea?
He hasn't had any criminal convictions as far as I know. His credit rating is fine as far as I know. He preaches about how he loathes criminals and how I should be ultra careful with my money.
The majority do, except in the case of you earning enough (or for some reason having a fantastic credit rating). The exception is university owned property, which it is a lot less common, as if you don't pay the university, they just stop you graduating until you pay (and they get you to pay termly in advance, e.g. pay the rent until January before you move in, pay the rent until April in Jan and so-on).
Original post by olympicdude
Would a university sign as a guarantor for a letting agency? Something tells me they wouldn't.
illyas says that is not a good idea.
What can I do? My dad will never back down. He gets kicks out of being stubborn. He won't back down or see sense.
illyas says that is not a good idea.
What can I do? My dad will never back down. He gets kicks out of being stubborn. He won't back down or see sense.
Maybe, as I said, they have the additional reassurance that they can stop you graduating. The university might want a deposit as well though in return (so they can pay with that money if you don't pay).
illyas hasn't baked up why it isn't a good idea.
Original post by cl_steele
Contrary to popular belief i must say i dont think your parents are out of line at all...
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
The problem is though that students don't earn (or have income amounting to) three times the yearly rent of anywhere bigger than a garden shed. As long as the student doesn't blow their student loan, then the parents won't need to pay anything, and the parents could always ask for the rent from the student each time the loan is paid in, and then have the rent taken from their account if they thought the student might not be able to pay (because they are silly with money or whatever).
At the end of the day, older adults have much less financial risk, and so without parent support for things like this, things are much much more difficult.
Original post by usernonapplicable
I think the father has made a smart move declining to be guarantor. Unless you're a lawyer specialising in tenant rights or something, I would assume a guarantor would be liable for an uninsured burned down house etc. Don't assume that a guarantor is only liable to pay for a few months of rent..
Every part of dealing with accommodation is a complete pain in the ass.
Every part of dealing with accommodation is a complete pain in the ass.
House should be insured by the landlord (legal requirement). Tenants contents and landlord's possessions which the tenant has use of should be insured by tenant (and the tenancy agreement can bind the tenant to insure the landlord's possessions). Guarantor is liable for damages made my the tenant (which the tenant should insure against and the deposit should cover) and rent only.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by mabrookes
Yes it is, landlords (including a few in my family) ask for gaurantors all the time as a matter of course. It is completely normal, everywhere.
And I am not sure how owning a flat or having a full time job make you knowledgeable on renting - in fact owning a flat makes you not know about it so nice admission there.
(lol did you neg as well, if so that is very funny.)
And I am not sure how owning a flat or having a full time job make you knowledgeable on renting - in fact owning a flat makes you not know about it so nice admission there.
(lol did you neg as well, if so that is very funny.)
Is this only for students or quite a recent thing? As in my experience I have never been asked to provide a Guarantor.
As someone who is a little older than you guys and has been around the block once or twice; I am going to offer an alternative answer as to why.
I also give alot of debt advice on the MSE forum so have seen this behavior before regarding debt and money
.
I suspect your father has serious debt issues or a poor credit history. He is scared that the possiible credit checks that would occur if he became guarantor would bring all this out into the open.
This backs up my argument ten fold. Does your mother take an active part in the household finances or is it mostly left to your father? I would bet £100 on the former and that your father has debts not even your mother knows about.
I am going to assume that I am right and give you some advice. If I were you I would not bother your father again with it. If it's more a case of debt causing the issue I wouldn't actually want him a guarantor. A credit check could ruin your chances of getting the house anyway plus it would cause alot of family issues at home. You have no idea what's going on with your mother and fathers finances.
Have your mother and father helped you with everything else? If this guarantor issue is the elephant in the room then I would be 99.9% it's a previous credit/debt issue causing it.
I would cut your losses, look for another place and try to get somewhere that doesn't require a guarantor/credit check to rent. These places are out there if you look!
I also give alot of debt advice on the MSE forum so have seen this behavior before regarding debt and money
.Original post by olympicdude
I asked them this just now. My dad got in such a bad mood telling me to stop asking questions about it.
I suspect your father has serious debt issues or a poor credit history. He is scared that the possiible credit checks that would occur if he became guarantor would bring all this out into the open.
Original post by olympicdude
My mum tried to explain things (she doesn't know the reason why and she is too scared to ask my dad because he threatens to lose his temper whenever she asks) and she thinks it's because he doesn't trust landlords and he doesn't want to be legally bound to a contract.
This backs up my argument ten fold. Does your mother take an active part in the household finances or is it mostly left to your father? I would bet £100 on the former and that your father has debts not even your mother knows about
.I am going to assume that I am right and give you some advice. If I were you I would not bother your father again with it. If it's more a case of debt causing the issue I wouldn't actually want him a guarantor. A credit check could ruin your chances of getting the house anyway plus it would cause alot of family issues at home. You have no idea what's going on with your mother and fathers finances.
Have your mother and father helped you with everything else? If this guarantor issue is the elephant in the room then I would be 99.9% it's a previous credit/debt issue causing it.
I would cut your losses, look for another place and try to get somewhere that doesn't require a guarantor/credit check to rent. These places are out there if you look!
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by cl_steele
Contrary to popular belief i must say i dont think your parents are out of line at all...
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
Youre going to uni theyre not responsible for looking after you and protecting you from the world anymore and they probably see it as [not only protecting themselves from potential liability] but getting you out of the house and making you more self reliant without you knowing you have a fall back option... also the fact you chose to take this route when you had halls and all.
So what about second and third year, when halls are not an option?
At least in my experience nearly all landlords require a guarantor.
Also note, 99% of time a guarantor won't have to pay a thing. This is even more the case with students when you have your student loan to pay rent (a student loan is often more "secure" than wages as you could lose your job in the blink of an eye).
Original post by Juno
They're not out of order at all.
You should never sign to be a guarantor unless you can afford to write the money off. The landlord wouldn't be asking for a guarantor in the first place if it was that certain you'd be able to pay!
You should never sign to be a guarantor unless you can afford to write the money off. The landlord wouldn't be asking for a guarantor in the first place if it was that certain you'd be able to pay!
As above. At least in my experience nearly all landlords ask for guarantor's regardless of the tenant.
Original post by usernonapplicable
I think the father has made a smart move declining to be guarantor. Unless you're a lawyer specialising in tenant rights or something, I would assume a guarantor would be liable for an uninsured burned down house etc. Don't assume that a guarantor is only liable to pay for a few months of rent..
Every part of dealing with accommodation is a complete pain in the ass.
Every part of dealing with accommodation is a complete pain in the ass.
Wrong.
On terms of rental contracts, the guarantor is only liable for the rent.
You are talking out of your backside when it comes to burned down buildings and stuff.
(edited 11 years ago)
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