Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2011

Announcements Posted on
Post on TSR and win a prize! Find out more... 10-04-2014
Interview Discussion 30-01-2014
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    ****
    0.1th version of TAELT 2011 that is the same as TAELT 2010
    Except updated links in post 1 to uni websites and the entry requirements contained there in.
    ****


    Welcome

    This is the first edition of 'The Alternative Economics League Table 2010 thread'. (TAELT for short).

    Firstly a 'warning' for applicants looking to use TAELT 2010 to make econ application decisions for the 2009/2010 cycle. TAELT 2010 has been updated using:
    1)UCAS Course Search 2010
    2)Uni websites.
    3)Average Tariff figures from the Independent 2010 table.

    The data here at the moment is still provisional. This will reflect:
    i)Unis changing their typical offers. The current typical offers on UCAS Course Search 2010 may not be the same as the typical offers that admissions tutors use when Autumn comes round. So please please both check UCAS and uni websites and re-check TAELT before applying.
    ii)Information gained from Results Day. This will reflect both clearing and Adjustment. i.e. there may be movements between groups.
    iii)2009 Newsapaper Economic League Tables data series (esp. Average Tariff Points).

    So if you are a 2010 applicant please use TAELT 2010 and also please re-check the admissions situation before applying.

    TAELT attempts to rate each uni in terms of how hard it is to get offers from. It does this mainly by looking at:
    i)Typical Offers
    ii) UCAS Tariff points of actual econ students at each uni. (Not just the average (available in newspaper League Tables) but also the distribution in 20 point slices (available from unistats.com)

    This thread should be considered alongside:
    1) The Econ Uni guide which explains how to choose your 5.
    2) The Good Econ PS guide which explains how to write a good Econ PS (but you probably worked that out yourself).

    Finally the uni offers are NOT guaranteed to be correct. They were collected manually by myself from UCAS with some checking on uni websistes. So that is one source of errors. Secondly some unis change their policies mid cycle (e.g. in the 08/09 cycle changes were made by Exeter and SOAS). But there may be others. Thirdly unis are free to make whatever offers they want and hence can make non-typical offers. For more on uni choice check out the econ uni guide (link above and in my sig).


    So what does the Alternative Economics League table actually look like?


    Ridiculously Ridiculously Competitive (RRC) Courses
    a.k.a as the 5 unis that make up the Top 5

    A*AA.0.0 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Not many more offers than Admissions. High GCSE A* requirement. No Interviews to sell yourself)
    1) LSE A*AA M**A* FM**P (2010 AAA M**A) 556 34.4K Applications:Offers data

    AAA.0.1 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Between 9 and 16 applicants per offer. Not many more offers than Admissions. e.g. approximately 70-90 offers)
    2) Oxford AAA M**p 543 29.0K 3 Average intake 84; 10.1% applicantffer ratio Typical Intake 75 applicant/offer ratio 08/09 cycle 1166/73 (6.26%)
    A*AA.0.2 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Not many more offers than Admissions. e.g. Cambridge approximately (200 offers, 5 or 6 applicants per offer, and typically a 90% conversion rate)
    3) Cambridge A*AA M** E**p FM**p (2009 AAA) 561 38.3K Recent Offers:Admissions Ratios 2006 (193:177) 2007 (205:185)

    A*AA.1 (380 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels.)
    4) UCL A*AAe M**A* (2009 AAAe M**A) 49530.6K (Approx 600 offers for 180 places)
    5) Warwick A*AA/AAAB/AAAb (2010 AAAb/AAAC/AAAB with FM M**B) 518 28.5K looking for 9 GCSE A*s
    (Cycle 08/09 approx 2,100 applicants for 142 places).
    Ridiculously Competitive (RC) Courses
    a.k.a as the next 6 unis that make up the Top 10.

    AAA.1.1 (360 Points) (non-AAA offers (Durham AAB 2008, Notts AABB, Bristol AAA-ABB 2009, Bath AAB (2009)))
    6) Durham AAA M*b m#a* 505 26.5K H Use contextual information 5 GCSE A*s required?
    7) Nottingham AAA/AABB (AAB/ABBB non-EU) M**p (Bsc Economics and Econometrics M**A) E**p m#a478 25.0K 40% Student excess in 2008 So look for 7 or 8 GCSE A*s. Summary stats No offers until after January 2010 deadline
    8) Bristol A*AA-ABB (2010 AAA-AAB )M**A E**p 451 27.1K H 44 places 906 applicants2009 rejection email (Rejecting a lot of applicants with Top 5 offers!)
    9) Bath AAA (2009 AAB) M**A E** declare AS grades preferred A-levels m#a* AS aaa actual and A2 AAA predicted preferred 483 26.8K 135 places 150-180 Offers 1600 applicants

    AAA.1.2(360 Points) (Not make ABB offers or accept ABB grades)(Bsc)
    10) St Andrews AAA (2009 AAB) 462 25.1K 09 application experiences (Times 8th(12th), Independent 9th(6th,9th), Guardian 5th (3rd, 8th))

    AAA-BBB.0 (300 Points) (In practice many students need a lot more than BBB to get an offer)
    11) EdinburghAAA-BBB (AAA prediction required unless there are contextual factors) (2010 BBB) M**B/M*A AAA and more than 6 GCSE A*s prefered 446 23.1K H H H(Times 20th(22th),Independent 12th(11th,16th),Guardian 10th(4th, 11th)) 2010 1347 Applications 209 offers

    What Admission Statistics are there?
    Admission Statistics for all the RRC and RC unis
    For each of the top 11 unis have collated for each year:
    i)Applicants
    ii)Offers
    iii)Places
    and from those 3 key variables derived:
    i) Applicants per Place
    ii)Applicants per Offer

    Why is LSE above Oxford and Cambridge?
    LSE is ranked as the hardest to get into on the basis that there is no interview to sell yourself at.
    Oxford is higher than Cambrdige due to the higher applicants per offer at Oxford (between 9 and 16 at Oxford c.f. between 5 and 6 at Cambridge).
    But at that extreme point of the table, features specific to your application may determine that one or another of the unis is harder to get into:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...4&postcount=61

    This is an issue on which there is not universal agreement (to say the least!). But I would say that if you want to apply to one uni out of LSE and Oxbridge and have not got stand out academics (esp. in terms of GCSE A*s), then I would suggest Oxbridge over LSE as at least that gives you an oppurtunity to sell yourself as an Economist and hence stand out that way,

    What changes have there been in this section since 2010?
    +LSE AAA TO A*AA M**A*
    +Warwick AAA to A*AA/AAAB/AAAb
    Durham stopped using GCSE modifie,. Instead use contextual information
    +Bristol AAA-ABB to A*AA-ABB
    ++Edinburgh BBB to AAA-BBB
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    ****
    0.1 th version of TAELT 2011 that is the same as TAELT 2010 except updated links
    ****

    Not Ridiculously Competitive (NRC) Courses

    These unis are relatively straightforward to get offers from. But:
    i)actually achieving the grades (esp AAA) may not be.
    ii)a lot of the data on TSR is probably for top students.
    iii)there are exceptions esp. if not doing A-level Maths.

    AAA.2.2 (360 Points) Exeter/SOAS AAA-ABB (But mainly AAA)
    12) SOAS AAA m#b/c(2010 m#c) (2009 AAA-ABB (But mainly AAA)) 421 24.3K -- Confusing offer history (Times 40th (28th), Independent 40th(18th) , Guardian 13th(10th))
    13) Exeter (Ba) AAA-AAB m#a (But mainly AAA) M**Ap 426 22.8K -- not hard to get a (high) offer from

    AAB.2.1.1 (340 Points) (Birmingham ABB in 2009))
    14) Birmingham AAB m#a (2009 ABB) 412 24.1K (Times 10th(7th),Independent 14th(12th),Guardian 6th(4th)) 2008 Freshers Thread
    Applications in 2009: 2032 Places available in 2011: 126



    AAB.2.1.2 (340 Points) (ABB offers (Southampton ABBb in 2009, York: 2008 accepted York CF applicants who achieved ABB))
    15) York AAB M**p m#a 440 25.1K
    16) Southampton AAB/ABBB/AABC/AAAD M**C 425 24.9K (Times 19th(17th), Independent 12th(14th), Guardian 26th(32nd)) (2009 AAB/ABBb/ABBC/AABD/AAAE M*c)

    AAB.2.3 (340 Points) (Ba Course. ABB in 2008(Newcastle, Glasgow) ABB in 2009 (Glasgow) ABB offer for variant courses(Leeds) ) Loughbourgh ABB in 2009, Cardiff ABB in 2009
    17) Leeds (Ba) AAB m#a 427 21.2K (Times 32nd(29th),Independent 39th(24th),Guardian 29th)
    18) Glasgow (MA) AAB (AAA on resit) (BSc ABB) (ABB (AAB on resit) in 2009) 418
    19) Newcastle (Ba) X AAB m#b 410 21.8K (Times 31st(32th),Independent 20th(27th),Guardian 50th)
    20) Cardiff (BScEcon) X AAB M**B m#b (2009 ABB) 40122.2K (Times 30th(25th),Independent 31st(23th),Guardian 43th)
    21) Loughborough AAB m#c(2009 ABB/AAC/ABab/AAbc) 395 23.0K (Times 24th(16th), Independent 25th(25th), Guardian 33rd(23th))

    ABB.1 (320 Points) (Up to 11% of students have less than 320 points:Manchester (Ba) 9%)
    22) Manchester (Ba)ABB m#c resit AAB [BSc AAB M**B E**p m#b resit AAA] 419 23.2K (Times 38th(39th),Independent 32nd(36th),Guardian 30th) Offers/Places: (BA) BSc
    23) Sheffield X Ba: ABB (2011 AAB/ABB) m#b (2009 BBB-BBbb) Bsc:AAB M**B (ABB-BBbb in 2009) 379 21.3K Much more competitive in cycle 09/10 than in 08/9 (Times 26th(38th),Independent 22nd (37th),Guardian 46th (38th))
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    ****
    0th version of TAELT 2011 that is the same as TAELT 2010 except updated links
    ****

    Courses regularly in Clearing and Extra
    These unis appear in clearing and Extra a lot:
    i) Extra 2009 All except Ulster
    ii) Clearing 2009 All expect East Anglia, Strathclyde, Herriot Watts, Stirling, Dundee, Ulster, Nottingham Trent and Salford
    iii) Clearing 2008 All except Strathclyde and Ulster
    iv) Clearing 2007 All

    Why were there less unis in clearing in 2009?
    Well:
    i) in 2009 the increase in demand for places was less than the increase in places. Hence less demand by unis in clearing.
    ii) Adjustment started (e.g. East Anglia were in Adjustment)
    iii) 4 of the unis (Strathclyde, Herriot Watts, Stirling, Dundee) are Scottish and Scottish exam results are out a week earlier. So looks like those unis had found enough students to fill their empty places before the English and Wales results came in a week later.

    AAB.2.2 (340 Points) Accept lower offers: (ABB offers (Lancaster 2008) Only need 2 A-levels(Lancaster))(7%< 320 points;15%<360points
    24) Lancaster X CAAB/AAbb/ABaa (2010 at least M* maybe M** m#b) GS accepted 417 20.0K Course now Bsc (starting with 2009 graduates)

    AAB.3 (340 Points) QM BBB in 2009 21% of students < 320 points,44% students <360 points Clearing in 2008
    25) Queen Mary X C(C,C) AAB (2009 BBB) M**B 364 20.6K (Times 23rd(34th),Independent 23rd(32th),Guardian 22nd)

    AAB/ABB (340-320 Points) ABB-BBB in 2009 18% of students < 320 points;46% students <360 points Clearing in 2009
    26) Surrey X (C) uni website AAB/ABB E**p/M**p m#a (2010 ABB/BBB m#b) 363 21.8K

    ABB.2 (320 Points) Not in clearing for striaght ecnomics in 2008; accept lower offers: RH BBB(with Maths) in 2008, Sussex (BBB) Surrey (ABB/BBB?) City BBB in 2008; Intermediate numbers of students below 320: Liverpool 20%, Sheffield 22%, Sussex 25%, RH 26%
    27) Strathclyde X N ABB m#b(2009 BBC) 407
    28) Liverpool X ABB M*b (2010 BBB with Maths or Economics) 389 (Times 36th(42nd), Independent 29th(33rd), Guardian 22nd(31st))
    29) Royal Holloway X CABB if M**/AAB if M*b/AAA m#a M**p E**p (UCAS 2010 has ABC-BBB if M**/ABB if M*b/AAB if m#a) 386 26.0K
    30) Sussex X C ABB-BBB m#b 359
    31) City X ABB m#b (BBB in 2009) 355 21.3K (Times48th (41st), Independent 37th(40th), Guardian 43rd(34th))

    ABB.3 (320 Points) (More than 39% of students have less than 320 points: Essex 42%,UEA 40%, Leicester 49%, Reading 51%; Clearing 2007 and 2008 (all); % students 280 points and below ( Essex 20% UEA 15%, Leicester 19%, Reading 26%)
    32) Essex X C(C,C) 320 (AB (200 on UCAS Course Search)) m#c 319 23.7K ++ (very strong Research (RAE 2008 GPA 3rd, Power 6th) but 'hated' campus) (Times 19th, Independent 21st(19th), Guardian 30th(25th))
    33) East Anglia X N(N,C) ABB-BBB m#b 368 (Times 11th,Independent 30th(21th),Guardian 49th(37th))
    34) Leicester (Ba) X N(C,C) ABB m#b (BSc M**B) 347 19.3K(Times 20th, Independent 26th (28th), Guardian 25th(28th))
    35) Reading (BSc) X N(C,C) ABB/AAC/ABBe/AACe/BBBc/ABCc/AADc/BBCa/ABDa/ACCa/AAEa M*c (BA m#b) 358 21.2K (Times 35th,Independent 54th(39th),Guardian 55th(58th))
    36) Kent X C(C,C) 320 ABB (2010:320 BB 300 BB on UCAS Course Search 2010) m#b 318

    BBB.1 (300 Points) (Up to 14% of students have less than 280 points), Sheffield (6%), Liverpool (10%), Queen Mary (9%), Queens Belfast (0%),City (14%)
    37) Queen's Belfast X C BBB-BBCb m#b 354 16.0K (Times 43th(45th),Independent 53rd(41st),Guardian 38th(42nd))

    BBB.2 (300 Points) (Atleast 51% of students below 280 points) (Kent (54%), Swansea (51%)
    38) Aberdeen X N(C,C) BBB(2010 CCC or aabb) 338
    39) Swansea X C(C,C) 300 [Ba 280](2010 Ba 260) 277 16.9K (Times 35th,Independent 44th,Guardian 56th)

    BBC (280 Points)(% below 280 points: (Strathcylde 6%, Brunel 29%, Abeystwyth 55%)
    40) Brunel X C(C,C) BBCc (2009 BBC) M*c 308 22.4K (Times 47th,Independent 43th,Guardian 53th)

    BCC.1 (260 Points)(% points below 240 points: (Heriot Watt unknown, Central Lancashire unknown, Stirling 20%)
    41) Dundee X N(N,C) BCC (2010 CCC) 317
    42) Heriot-Watt X N(N,C) BCC 307
    43) Central Lancashire X N(C,C) 280-240 m#c (2010 260-220) 291
    44) Stirling X N(N,C) BCC (2010 BCcc) 312

    BCC.2 (260 Points)(% points below 240 points: (Hull 35%, Aberystwyth 40%, Portsmouth 42%, UWE 40%, Coventry 45%, Hertfordshire 66%, Kingston 80%)
    45) Aberystwyth X N(C,C) 260 m#c (2010 280 min of 80 from A-levels) 270 (Times 55th,Independent 61th,Guardian 48th)
    46) Hull X C(C,C) 260 266 22.1K (Times 25th,Independent 35th,Guardian 45th)
    47) Portsmouth X C(C,C) 260-300 m#b 265 23.0K
    48) UWE Bristol X C(C,C) 280-340 (2010 260-300) 265 18.7K(Times 57th,Independent 58th,Guardian 39th)
    49) Coventry X C(C,C) 260-320 m#c262 18.8K(Times 50th,Independent 52th,Guardian 19th)
    50) Hertfordshire X N(C,C) 260 m#c (240(220) on UCAS Course Search 2010) 203 18.6K (Times 61st(58th), Independent 58th (51st), Guardian 62nd (59th))
    51) Kingston X C(C,C) 260 m#c 195 17.5K (Times 63th,Independent 63th,Guardian 60th)

    CCC.1 (240 Points) (<20% of students sub 240 points in 2005/6) Ulster (15%)
    52) Ulster N 240 (160) 254 (Times 40th,Independent 46th,Guardian 27th)

    CCC.2 (240 Points) (Atleast 20% of students some 240 points) Manchester Met (50%), Salford (Unreported), Portsmouth (42%), Nottingham Trent (65%), Hertfordshire (66%), Bradford (Unreported)
    53) Nottingham Trent X N(N,C) CCC m#C 251 21.1K (Times 52th,Independent 50th,Guardian 20th)
    54) Manchester Met X C(C,C) 240 (140) m#c 256 16.3K
    55) Bradford X C(C,C) 240-260 (160) m#c 231

    CDD (200 Points)
    56) London Met X C(C,C) 200 m#c (207) (220 (160) on UCAS Course Search 2010)

    DDD (180 Points)
    57) Greenwich X C(C,C) 180-220 m#c 295 21.3K

    Changes since 2010
    ++Strathclyde BBC to ABB
    -Aberystwyth 280 to 260
    +++Aberdeen CCC to BBB
    +Dundee CCC to BCC
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    ****
    0th version of TAELT 2011 that is the same as TAELT 2010
    ****

    Note the following post is just a copy of a post from TAELT 2009.
    Hence the questions and answers may be out of date. Further any references to this cycle or last cycle may be confusing. Finally specifically (but not only) the audit of changes is incomplete given the new changes in TAELT 2010.

    What extra information is in the spreadsheet version?
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Cw&output=html

    The excel spreadsheet contains the information in the printed version plus more details:
    A-level applications As above plus some website links, the total QAA score, positions for each unis from each of the three Newspaper Economics League Tables and some partial series (e.g. Further Maths , excluded subjects and applicants per place).
    Scottish Applications Similar but for Scottish applications
    IB Applications Similar but for IB applications. Lets you compare UCAS points of IB qualifications with the actual average tariff of successful applicants.

    Clearing 2008 Contains data on clearing used in the Economics Clearing 2008 thread). It shows which unis were in clearing for economics in 2007 and 2008. For 2008 it shows the different situations for UK/EU and International students. As well as tracking over time the UK clearing situation.

    Most of the information on tariff distribution is not displayed above. And I have used the information to form the separate AAA,AAB,BBB and CCC groups. So the Tariff sheets are really worth looking out if you want to understand the validity of the groupings. (And if you are planning to use the group info to make application decisions you should want to understand them!)
    Tariff Frequency05-06 What % of students came in each of 10 tariff categories
    Tariff Accumulation 05-06 Summation of the sheet 3 data so can see what % of students got below a certain tariff
    Tariff Frequency06-07 What % of students came in each of 10 tariff categories
    Tariff Accumulation 06-07 Summation of the sheet 3 data so can see what % of students got below a certain tariff
    Change in Tariff Accumulation How the situation changed between the 06/07 and 05/06 years.

    QAA Reports 2001 Assessment of economics departmental quality.
    Output Data on what job categories econ graduates from each uni end up in. See this post from the Econ applications FAQ for more details

    Which courses are selected?
    Nearly all courses are straight economics (L100 and a few L101s) except:
    Oxford it is Economics and Management
    Glasgow is L150.

    Why are some universities followed by an X?
    The X means that the uni is currently in Extra 2009 for Economics.
    Note that unis appear in Extra unless they have told UCAS they have enough applicants. So there may be some false positives when Extra has just opened.

    Why are some universities followed by C, C(C), (C), N(C), C(C,C), C(N,C) etc?
    Clearing information encoded for the last 3 years:
    (,C) means that the uni was in clearing for straight economics in 2008 for UK/EU students
    (,N)means that the uni was not in clearing for straight economics in 2008 for UK/EU students

    (C) means that the uni was in clearing for straight economics in 2009 for UK/EU students
    () or (N) means that the uni was not in clearing for straight economics in 2009 for UK/EU students

    C means that the uni was in clearing for straight economics in 2010 for UK/EU students
    N means that the uni was in clearing for straight economics in 2010 for UK/EU students
    see TAELT 2010 for 2008 clearing information.

    Note that many of the 2009 clearing unis were in clearing for only a few hours.
    i.e. gone by the next day. For details see the 2009 Economics Clearing thread:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post20730707

    For UCAS Course Search for economics 2010:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...8#post27043918

    What do the letter (and sometimes numbers) immediately after the university name mean?
    They give the typical offer for each uni for economics in 2009.Upper case is A-level, lower case is AS-level. Where the offer is in terms of points for both AS-levels and A-levels then the A-level requirement is in brackets. Where the university has more than one typical offer both are given.

    Where did you get the typical offers from?
    The typical Offers are all sourced from UCAS 2009 entries for each university.

    Can I get hold of the typical offers myself?
    Yes. Goto the UCAS website:
    select "search by subject".
    click on "e" and then select "economics" from the list.
    Then select "all Economics courses"
    Then you will get 4 pages of links to all the different economics courses for all the UK universities.
    The typical offer for each uni is available under "Economics"/"Entry Profiles"/"English, Welsh and Northern Irish Qualifications".

    What do the M**, M**A, M**B, M*,M*c M**p, M*p and m#c refer to?
    Thirdly I have encoded the requirements for Maths and Economics as follows:
    M** means A-level maths is mandatory
    M**A means A-level maths grade A is mandatory
    M**B means A-level maths grade B is mandatory
    M* means AS-level maths is mandatory
    M*c means AS-level maths grade c is mandatory
    M**p means A-level maths is preferred
    M*p means AS-level maths is preferred
    m#c means that GCSE Maths grade c is mandatory

    What about if I do not meet the GCSE requirement for Maths but am doing AS-level or A-level Maths?
    You should check with the uni concerned: they may be flexible.

    So if there is no M**p or M*P after a uni does that mean my application is not weakened if I do not have maths?
    No, I am afraid not. It just means that I have not found any reference where that uni states a preference for students who studied maths at school. And in many cases that is just because certain universities give virtually no info on what their entry requirements are.
    e.g. they don't even make explicit any preferences on A-levels e.g. that they prefer Economics to General Studies.
    My rule of thumb would be that for all competitive unis e.g. AAB.1.1+ that not having Maths A-level would be a significant disadvantage. (This may be less of an issue at the ..2 unis which are Ba e.g. AAA.2.2 SOAS). This is because econ at top unis is basically applied maths.

    What do the E**p and E*p refer to?
    E**p means A-level economics is preferred
    E*p means AS-level economics is preferred

    So if there is no E**p or E*P after a uni does that mean my application is not weakened if I do not have economics?
    As with maths it just means:
    1) that I have not found any reference where that uni states a preference for students who studied economics at school.
    2) that is just because certain universities give virtually no info on what their entry requirements are.
    3) my rule of thumb would be that for all competitive unis e.g. AAB.1.1+ that not having Economics A-level would be a significant disadvantage. Reasons for this include:
    i)hard to do a good econ PS when you have not studied economics at A-level.
    ii)doing A-level means you have got background knowledge and reassures unis that you are making an informed choice.
    iii)that lots and lots of econ students at top unis have A-level economics e.g. in 2007 80-90% of 1st year economics students at LSE, Warwick and UCL have A-level economics.

    What do the 3 digit numbers refer to?
    The 3 digit number is the average UCAS tariff score of 1st year undergraduates for 2006/7 from the Times table. UCAS have a table which gives the tariff for each qualification. The Times figure may well include some joint degrees. i.e. not just straight economics. Hence it may under-estimate the true level.

    How come a lot of the tariffs are above 360?
    Well the tariff includes points for all qualifications. So that is all AS-levels, any other UCAS point earning qualifications and all A-levels (even if that is >3) qualifications.
    And yes a lot of successful applicants do 4 A-levels plus a couple of AS-level kickers.

    What are the K numbers about?
    They give the average starting salaries for economics graduates from each uni as estimated by The Times newspaper:


    A couple of the uni have ++ or -- after them. What does that mean?They are an indication of how IMO course quality compares with the TAELT competition rating.

    So Birmingham is +++ because whilst it is "easy" to get offers from it is a good course. I don't go as far as the newspapers (Times has it as 7th, Independent as 12th and the Gaurdian as 7th) but it is better than 21st i.e. Birmingham is an improving course, and I would have it as top 15.

    Exeter and SOAS are -- as I am not convinced their courses are as good as the AAB.2.1 courses in the group below them. i.e. Exeter is Ba and SOAS Economics shares a common 1st year with the Ba Economics and Development Studies course.

    A couple of the uni have H or HHH after them. What does that mean?
    H stands for holistic, and HHH stands for very very holistic.
    Bristol is H and Edinburgh is HHH.

    What does holistic mean?
    Holistic means considering the whole person. And hence selection has less weight on academics than you might expect.

    Why have you given the Newspaper ratings for some universities? And not others?
    Where there is a big difference between the TAELT league position and one or more of the newspaper positions, all three Newspaper position are given. The newspaper ratings are also given for the out of position entries of Warwick and Edinburgh.

    Where the Newspaper rating is 10 or more positions above TAELT, the newspaper rating is in green.
    Where the Newspaper rating is 10 or more positions below TAELT, the newspaper rating is in red.

    I don't give the newspaper rating where they are (all) close to the TAELT positions as then they don't add much value.

    How do the Newspaper ratings compare with the TAELT ratings?
    The big differences seem to be for cities with large populations. The following unis are significantly higher in TAELT than in the newspapers (with size ratings for English cities in brackets):
    Manchester 400,000 (7th largest)
    Leeds 450,000 (4th largest)
    Newcastle 190,00 (20th largest)
    Cardiff 320,000
    Reading 230,000 (17th largest)
    This suggests that students want to get into large unis with exciting nightlife (even when the economics department is not that academically strong). This would result in courses having lots of applicants and hence high typical offers and average entry tariffs. Such unis would appear highly on TAELT but not in the newspaper League tables.

    And it is important to understand that the typical offer and Entry Standards should reflect all good (and bad) qualities that a uni has. So it is no good thinking that a uni is high in TAELT and has a good nightlife and so moving it mentally further up the table (unlike you would with the newspaper tables). Finally this article suggests that students may be happier in smaller unis anyway

    How many of the points are just from A-levels?
    About half of the Warwick Economist have 3 A-levels and about half have 4 A-levels.

    Where does all the data come from?
    I collected all the data manually so I apologise in advance for any mistakes. Please let me know of any and I will attempt to fix them.

    What do the XXX./0/1/2/3./1/2 groups mean?
    The 1st part is the headline typical offer. The 2nd part compares results of successful students with that typical offer. The 3rd part is a measure of course quality
    XXX
    This means that unis in that group typically make offers of XXX. Where the university has more than one typical offer the upper is used. Where 3 offers are used the middle is given.

    /0/1/2/3
    Sometimes groups are small and not broken down further. But sometimes they are. When unis typically require a higher level of academic performance than XXX then the .0 suffix is used.When XXX is normally adequate .1 is used. When one grade lower (i.e. XXY) is often adequate then .2 is used. Similalrly when a 2 grades underperformance (i.e. XXZ) is often adequate then .3 is used.

    /1/2
    The Final 1/2 term is rarely used. It unlike the 1st 2 parts reflects course quality. It is when it is clear IMO that two unis despite having the same offer and acceptance behaviour have different quality levels.

    What order are the unis in?
    Originally the unis were sorted by typical offer and then by the average tariff of students actually doing the course. Where UCAS gave 2 offers (e.g. Exeter AAB-ABB) the higher (AAB) was used. Where UCAS gave 3 offers (e.g. Bristol AAA-ABB) the middle (AAB) was used.

    However this resulted in some very big groups. For example there are 10 AAB and 15 ABB unis . So I decided to break them into unis that were likely or unlikely to accept students with a lower grade. The concept being that two unis should be in different groups if it could be reasonable to have the higher group uni as a firm and the lower group uni as an insurance. There are 4 main reasons why a uni may be in the lower group:
    i) explicit policy of sometimes giving lower offers. e.g. Exeter and SOAS are AAB-ABB
    ii) accepts breadth of qualification as a substitute for high grades. e.g. Southampton accepts ABBb instead of AAB
    iii) has a high proportion of it's students with tariffs below the typical offer. For example, the lower group of BBB unis all have at least 20% of their students below 280 points.
    iv)Has a history of accepting lower grade students. So up to 2008 Durham's typical offer was AAB and this year York typical offer was AAB but accepted (at least some) ABB students.

    Finally I have now tried to put the groups into order of how competitive they are. This was because some unis (e.g. Warwick and Edinburgh) make offers that are clearly not at Market clearing levels. Hence I moved them up. Similarly IMO it is relatively easy to get offers from Exeter and SOAS (even though it is a very high offer!)hence they are moved down.

    What are the Ridiculously Ridiculously Competitive Courses , Ridiculously Competitive Courses and Not Ridiculously Competitive Courses labels about?
    Well there is a big difference in how hard it is to get offers:
    i) from the top 5 unis and all the rest
    ii) from the top 11 unis and all the rest
    These labels emphasis this.

    So the number in front of each uni represent your ordering?
    Yes:
    i) but within a group the ordering is determined just by one years average tariff. Hence unstable
    ii) lots of personal factors you should consider when making your decision (e.g. city/campus uni, how far it is from home) that no objective (by which I mean generic, non-applicant specific) table can encompass.
    iii) The Scottish unis have a lot of Highers candidates and hence higher tariffs and hence higher positions.
    iv) Expecting TAELT to distinguish between similar unis is unreasonable. e.g. LSE being 3rd does not mean it is worse than Cambridge or Oxford. Hell, oxford don't even teach straight economics. (I did consider when I first created TAELT not including Oxford at all as they don't teach straight econ. But I thought dropping Oxford would cause more confusion than it was worth).

    What abut the AAA.0 and AAA.1 groups?
    Given how many offers UCL make per place (10:3) I have split them off. Cambridge in 07/08 were 1.09:1. I don't have the same figures for Oxford or LSE but I very much expect them to be much close that 1 than 3. Hence the split.
    For more on this issue check out the 3rd post of the Econ Uni Guide.

    What about the AAB.0 and BBB.0 groups?
    Warwick (explicitly) and Edinburgh (implicitly) demand more from (all: Warwick, most: Edinburgh) students than just the 3 A-level grades given by the typical offer. So to show that they are in their own subgroups.
    In the "Which unis should I apply to for econ guide?" the background with Warwick and Edinburgh is discussed on question "Are better universities necessarily in higher groups?
    ": http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=658957

    Why is Bristol in the separate AAB.1.0 group?
    Well given:
    i) how many students with top 5 offers were rejected by Bristol this cycle (08/09)
    ii)that Bristol were AAA in 2007 and that they are the only uni out of all 61 to go for a lower offer during the last 2 years. Suggests Bristol would still clear at AAA.
    iii)that Bristol are making a number of AAA offers
    Hence it seemed sensible to reflect this by giving it a more competitive group than the other AAB.1.1 unis.

    Why are the AAB.0 and BBB.0 groups out of order?
    I have:
    1) moved the AAB.0 group (Warwick) up to above the AAA.2 group
    2) moved the BBB.o group (Edinburgh) up to above the AAB.2 group.

    This is an attempt to put unis into the order they would be if they were priced
    to market. Means that:
    1) unis in higher groups are more competitive.
    2)the table is no longer (totally) in Typical Offer
    order
    3) Table now reflects that there is a discontinuity at the AAB.2 group in terms of competitiveness.
    4) the table bends the rule of having firm and insurance unis in
    higher and lower groups. But:
    i)that rule still applies with .1 .2 unis
    ii)that rule still applies within each XXX group.
    iii)the rest of the group orderings are consistent with the "hardness" to get into concept.
    iv)Can justify move on basis that .0 unis are not priced to market.
    5) users no longer have to mentally move Warwick and Edinburgh to make sense of
    the table as it has been done physically

    And why are there AAB.1.1 and AAB.1.2 groups?
    The AAB.1 unis all make AAB typical offers and don't accept ABB.
    The difference in the AAB.1.1 and AAB.1.2 is in terms of the course quality. I have put Leeds in a lower group as:
    i)It is BA not BSc.
    ii)In terms of output only 30% of Leeds Graduates get Business, Finance and Stats jobs. Whilst with Warwick, Bristol and Bath the percentages are 73%, 59%, 45%
    iii)It only got a QAA mark of 22
    iv)It is ranked 29th, 24th and 29th for econ by The Times, The Independent and The Guardian

    What do the colours mean?
    The colour of the uni represents how the typical A-level offer (in points terms) compares with the average actual points from all qualifications (i.e. not just A-levels but also AS-levels and any other reported qualifications).
    average<typical red
    average<typical+30 purple (30 points being half an AS-level a grade)
    average>typical+60 blue (60 points being an AS-level a grade)
    average>typical+120 green(120 points being an A-level A grade)
    otherwise black

    But I hate the colours!
    If you don't like the colouring then copy and paste it into a TSR post (as opossed to quoting) and it will all go black.

    If you want to know what the concept behind the colouring is check out this post.

    Are there any versions of this table for other subjects?
    Yes there is for PPE
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=916175
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k..._w&output=html

    Are there any versions of this table for earlier years?
    Yes there is TAELT 2009.

    I was inspired in this undertaking by the 2007 Entry Requirements post produced by Werty675. So I fully acknowledge my debt there.

    Significant changes 2007-2009 include :
    Down:
    -Bristol is AAB instead of AAA

    Up:
    +Durham is AAA instead of AAB
    ++SOAS is AAB instead of BBB
    +Leeds is AAB instead of ABB
    +Manchester is AAB instead of ABB
    + Lancaster AAB/AAbb/ABaa instead of ABB
    +Sussex is ABB instead of BBB
    +Essex is ABB instead of BBB
    +East Anglia is ABB instead of BBB
    +Reading is ABB instead of BBB
    +Kent is BBB instead of BBC
    +Aberystwyth is BBC instead of BCC
    +Heriot-Watt is BCC instead of CCC
    +Stirling is BCC instead of CCC

    (definite) changes since 2008:
    + Exeter AAA- ABB (But mainly AAA) instead of AAB
    + Durham AAA instead of AAB
    + SOAS AAA-ABB (But mainly AAA) instead of AAB-ABB
    + Newcastle AAB instead of ABB
    + Lancaster AAB/AAbb/ABaa instead of ABB

    Changes since 2009

    +Cambridge AAA to AAA* (maybe!)
    +UCL AAA to AAA* M**A*
    +Warwick AAB to AAA
    +Bristol AAA-ABB to AAA-AAB
    +Bath AAB to AAA-AAB
    Edinburgh BBB to BBB M**B/M*A
    +SOAS AAA-AAB to AAA
    +Birmingham ABB to AAB
    Lancaster atleast M* maybe M**
    ++QM BBB to AAB
    +Cardiff ABB to AAB/ABB
    +Loughborough ABB to AAB
    Liverpool BBB to AAB (if neither M nor E)
    Sheffield BBB-BBbb to ABB

    Do you know which of these course went into clearing?
    There is this list for 2007. But as I understand it it includes all economics courses (e.g. even agricultural economics) and not just L100 straight economics, so it can be a bit misleading.

    See this thread for 2008 clearing Economics data
    I managed this one so it does record:
    i) the difference between straight and non-straight economics.
    ii) the difference between UK/EU and International applications.

    Great. I now have a better idea how competitive each uni is. But how do I select which 5 unis to go for?
    Well in order to avoid the twin perils of both over and under applying check out the companion thread that is The Econ Uni Guide.
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Please let me know of any changes that need to be made from TAELT 2010.

    So far I have only updated post 1.
    and that is using the entry requirements on uni websites.
    i.e. no checking with UCAS Entry requirements or looking at tariffs from 2011 Newspaper league Tables.

    Changes so far:
    Warwick AAA to A*AA/AAAB/AAAb
    Durham stopped using GCSE modifie,. Instead use contextual information
    Bristol AAA-ABB to A*AA-ABB
    Edinburgh BBB to AAA-BBB
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Bit vague. Lol, I jk. Good job. Warwick requires 9A*s!?!? wow, I didn't expect that. Do LSE have any particular GCSE cut off?
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Paulwhy)
    Please let me know of any changes that need to be made from TAELT 2010.
    Thanks a lot for this, again! Would you like me to "de-stick" your 2010 thread and to replace it with this version?
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Warwick looking for 9 GCSE A*s?!
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mr_Deeds)
    Thanks a lot for this, again! Would you like me to "de-stick" your 2010 thread and to replace it with this version?
    Yes Please.

    (Original post by Cuzzz)
    not me personally, but if you have 2A* gcse's but also got a D at gcse in one subject. However, he is predicted A*A*AA for next year, In Eco, Politics , Maths and RS. Will his average Gcse's stop him from getting into Warwick/Durham etc. What is the best he could hope for and whats realistic.?

    ( He doesnt have an account but has asked me to ask. he wants you to be 100% honest).
    Start your own thread.

    (Original post by Adam92)
    Warwick looking for 9 GCSE A*s?!
    Does this surprise you?
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    edit: Happy stuff
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    LSE now want A*AA for straight econ with the A* in Maths.
    http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergra..._BSc_Econ.aspx

    Can't wait for this to be completed
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by luckylucifer)
    LSE now want A*AA for straight econ with the A* in Maths.
    http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergra..._BSc_Econ.aspx

    Can't wait for this to be completed
    Thanks.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by donutman)
    wow :/ ****. the government should stop foreigners from coming to uk unis for undergrad. then it would be less competitive and everyone is happy.
    Those foreign undergraduates make up a huge percentage of University's budgets. I think Oxbridge get 50% of their budget from foreign students alone.
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anonnumber6)
    Those foreign undergraduates make up a huge percentage of University's budgets. I think Oxbridge get 50% of their budget from foreign students alone.
    Can this thread be kept for details of what entry requirements uni require for economics?
    esp. on what changes there are from 2010 TAELT.

    Thanks
    Paulwhy
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I didn't know Warwick were such GCSE Nazis
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Paulwhy)
    Can this thread be kept for details of what entry requirements uni require for economics?
    esp. on what changes there are from 2010 TAELT.

    Thanks
    Paulwhy
    Ok kl. Baths uni essential GCSE A* in maths :[. on their website
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by donutman)
    Ok kl. Baths uni essential GCSE A* in maths :[. on their website
    That piece of information is already there in the Bath entry (see the m#a* bit):
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I have now updated the links for the first 3 posts and the average UCAS points of students for all 4 posts.
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    As Lancaster and Queen Mary were in Clearing, they are both going to get relegated. Any other suggestions?
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    deleted Salford as they no longer do economics.
    Strathclyde (BBC to ABB) and Aberdeen (CCC to BBB) are both going to get promoted due to higher entry requirements.
    Given the few places in clearing, post 4 is going to get decimated. e.g. 13 of the 27 were not in clearing this year.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?

    this is what you'll be called on TSR

  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?

    never shared and never spammed

  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By completing the slider below you agree to The Student Room's terms & conditions and site rules

  2. Slide the button to the right to create your account

    Slide to join now Processing…

    You don't slide that way? No problem.

Updated: April 14, 2014
Article updates
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.