If a tree fell in a forest and no one was there to here it fall would it make a sound

OP

Original post by Formerly Helpful_C

Yes, it does.

This is one of those pseudo-philosophical questions that helps to stroke the egos of a few.

well, i have done some thinking, okay you need a definition to explain what you perceive, but everything has an input and and an output so i question do we understand enough about the human mind, to explain (the input) the mechanism of the sound produced and how it relates to (the output), the signal interpreted by the brain i.e what is being decoded within the brain, so its not really pseudo it's just saying does are brain trick us or not I think that is what my argument has always boiled down to. I mean we as humans always define things by working backwards from what we perceive so I think of the brain acts as the middleman does it alter the input so that it is different from the output and if so we don't really no what is sound?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 63

xiyangliu

2

OP I am sensing that you are trying to define reality..

Everything we say feel is just electrical signals, every measurement we take is the just the reaction that the nature decides to make. So here comes to the question for everyone( I am asking for u :biggrin:

).

What is reality ?

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Reply 64

Swanbow

19

Yes. The vibrations from the fall cause a sound regardless of whether one is there to hear it or not. Reality exists without consciousness.

Reply 65

OP

Original post by xiyangliu

OP I am sensing that you are trying to define reality..

Everything we say feel is just electrical signals, every measurement we take is the just the reaction that the nature decides to make. So here comes to the question for everyone( I am asking for u :biggrin:

).

What is reality ?

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Yes and of course this whole argument has boiled down to having some idea of what reality is, but if we truly knew how the mind processed what it hears and sees then we surely we would know what sound truly is and thus it would not matter whether we were about to hear a sound or not.

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Reply 66

Architecture-er

19

Original post by Hitman3161

Yeah similar to what i said there is an element of ambiguity, but whats your hypothesis behind that answer?

There is no ambiguity.

As the tree falls it converts potential energy into kinetic energy. Upon impacting the ground, that kinetic energy is converted into heat and sound energy. So yes, it makes a sound even if no-one hears it, because it's energised the air molecules in a manner which is defined as sound waves.

edit: in other words, if the tree didn't make any sound it would first have to realise there was no sound receivers nearby, and it would probably catch fire because of the added heat energy.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 67

OP

Original post by Architecture-er

There is no ambiguity.

As the tree falls it converts potential energy into kinetic energy. Upon impacting the ground, that kinetic energy is converted into heat and sound energy. So yes, it makes a sound even if no-one hears it, because it's energised the air molecules in a manner which is defined as sound waves.

edit: in other words, if the tree didn't make any sound it would first have to realise there was no sound receivers nearby, and it would probably catch fire because of the added heat energy.

But that is what we observe to be true and from a physics point of view doesn't being observed change the behaviour of the thing observed. Of course this change is dependant on the influence of the observer but if you read the post above I'm talking our perception of reality and the brain being the link between what is real and not and to what extent?

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 68

username607202

17

If a man says something in the forest and a woman isn't there, is he still wrong?

Reply 69

the bear

20

Maybe it would make a very quiet sound ?

Reply 70

Original post by Swanbow

Yes. The vibrations from the fall cause a sound regardless of whether one is there to hear it or not. Reality exists without consciousness.

We look at everything through the lense of our minds. A different mind will construct reality differently. One would think reality must exist in an objective sense but would a bats perception resemble ours to any great degree? Would a creature designed to perceive reality perceive it in the same way as a creature designed to perceive only what it needs in order to survive? A reality must exist, probably, but "the" reality? The existence of human reality requires a human mind. No ear = no sound. Colours we cant see arent colours.

Reply 71

WakiMaki

Well it depends on how you look at sound.

If you look at sound as the vibrations sent through the air from it falling, then yes it does make a sound. But if you look at sound that it is the detection of those vibrations by your ears.. then no it does not. Personally i think it does make a sound yes because the sound waves still exist.

Reply 72

Architecture-er

19

Original post by Hitman3161

But that is what we observe to be true and from a physics point of view doesn't being observed change the behaviour of the thing observed. Of course this change is dependant on the influence of the observer but if you read the post above I'm talking our perception of reality and the brain being the link between what is real and not and to what extent?

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

But what you're talking about, a discussion on how our brains interpret the reality around us, doesn't change the fact that the tree would emit something we universally interpret as sound?

Reply 73

Original post by WakiMaki

Well it depends on how you look at sound.

If you look at sound as the vibrations sent through the air from it falling, then yes it does make a sound. But if you look at sound that it is the detection of those vibrations by your ears.. then no it does not. Personally i think it does make a sound yes because the sound waves still exist.

That still requires a human mind tho. Without that element non of the things in your argument exist. Sound waves exist only in the human mind because thats the interpretation of that element of what we call reality.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 74

WakiMaki

Original post by green.tea

That still requires a human mind tho. Without that element non of the things in your argument exist. Sound waves exist only in the human mind because thats the interpretation of that element of what we call reality.

Not really animals can hear noises so not the human mind. And also the vibrations would still exist regardless of us being able to pick them up or not. That would be like claiming UV light does not exist because we can't see it.

Reply 75

Original post by WakiMaki

Not really animals can hear noises so not the human mind. And also the vibrations would still exist regardless of us being able to pick them up or not. That would be like claiming UV light does not exist because we can't see it.

Animals have no idea of "sound wave".

Your missing my point. Vibration is a human interpretation which requires a human mind. It no more exists without it than marxism exists without marx.

Uv light is another human interpretation of information received through senses designed to survive, not to understand reality to a mind designed to survive not to understand reality. Theres no reason to think our abilities tell us how reality is. Would limited perception exist without limited mind?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 76

Skip_Snip

3

Even if there's no people around there'll be animals who can hear, and maybe a squirrel who's wondering why the ground is looking increasingly close-splat

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 77

Original post by Skip_Snip

Even if there's no people around there'll be animals who can hear, and maybe a squirrel who's wondering why the ground is looking increasingly close-splat

Ahh but would there be a splat if it couldnt be heard over the noise of the tree?

Reply 78

OP