Universal Jobmatch - New Jobcentre job search system

As I understand it the no apply button thing is because the employer hasn't signed up to receive applications electronically so you are meant to ring them to find out howto apply

Reply 23

OP

Original post by zippyRN

As I understand it the no apply button thing is because the employer hasn't signed up to receive applications electronically so you are meant to ring them to find out howto apply

I have noticed a few which have no contact details on lol.

In those cases you need to google the company.

Reply 24

OP

Can anyone tell me if the activity log is replacing the booklet?

The leaflet makes it sound like it does and my advisor made it sound like it was...

But I really don't want to risk being sanctioned. Can anyone confirm the situation?

Reply 25

Original post by Politics Student

Can anyone tell me if the activity log is replacing the booklet?

The leaflet makes it sound like it does and my advisor made it sound like it was...

But I really don't want to risk being sanctioned. Can anyone confirm the situation?

The activties booklet was never absolutely compulsory as I understand it,it 's just away of illustrating that you have undertaken what's in your agreement.

Reply 26

123-ABC

8

Isn't signing up to this optional?

Reply 27

Original post by 123-ABC

Isn't signing up to this optional?

principles are great when you can afford them, negotiating the DWP systems is all about gamesmanship.

Reply 28

Original post by Politics Student

Can anyone tell me if the activity log is replacing the booklet?

The leaflet makes it sound like it does and my advisor made it sound like it was...

But I really don't want to risk being sanctioned. Can anyone confirm the situation?

The DWP have not decided themselves. Universal Jobmatch (UJM) has been rushed through and does not comply with lots of legislation and has not been thoroughly assessed or tested.

Registering for UJM is optional. Your advisor can give you a direction to register to increase your employment chances; in the same way they could tell you to look at any employment website.

You do not have to give consent to the DWP to allow your advisor to have access to your account. If you do not consent then UJM is largely useless. Your advisor can ask you apply for certain jobs as usual, but without access to your account they can not validate what you have or have not been doing. In this case, you provide 'proof' as you would with any other job with the grey booklet.

If in any doubt always ask them to print out any jobs they ask you to apply for, that way you have a basis not to use UJM as you already have the information, and do not sign anything while you are there. Take it away with you. They have to get your written permission to do anything. It is pointless signing something under duress if you do not understand the implications of what you are signing, especially when it involves data protection or work programmes.

Reply 29

Original post by evantej

The DWP have not decided themselves. Universal Jobmatch (UJM) has been rushed through and does not comply with lots of legislation and has not been thoroughly assessed or tested.

Registering for UJM is optional. Your advisor can give you a direction to register to increase your employment chances; in the same way they could tell you to look at any employment website.

You do not have to give consent to the DWP to allow your advisor to have access to your account. If you do not consent then UJM is largely useless. Your advisor can ask you apply for certain jobs as usual, but without access to your account they can not validate what you have or have not been doing. In this case, you provide 'proof' as you would with any other job with the grey booklet.

If in any doubt always ask them to print out any jobs they ask you to apply for, that way you have a basis not to use UJM as you already have the information, and do not sign anything while you are there. Take it away with you. They have to get your written permission to do anything. It is pointless signing something under duress if you do not understand the implications of what you are signing, especially when it involves data protection or work programmes.

what makes you think that you are owed anything by anyone?

have you actually done an honest day's work in your life?

It surprises me how little one actually has to do to get JSA - to just do the minimum to satisfy a straight forward jobseekers agreement is little more than a day's work especially if you have your CV uploaded to a variety of sites... and getting to the job centre once a fortnight to sign ...

care to justify your assertion over it not complying with the law, acts and sections please not just the ranting of some entitled muppetologist

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 30

Original post by zippyRN

what makes you think that you are owed anything by anyone?

have you actually done an honest day's work in your life?

It surprises me how little one actually has to do to get JSA - to just do the minimum to satisfy a straight forward jobseekers agreement is little more than a day's work especially if you have your CV uploaded to a variety of sites... and getting to the job centre once a fortnight to sign ...

care to justify your assertion over it not complying with the law, acts and sections please not just the ranting of some entitled muppetologist

Most of your comment is irrelevant and rude. Nevertheless, this article provides a very short overview of some of the problems involved with Universal Jobsmatch. I have done 'an honest day's work'. And no, I did not neg you.

Reply 31

123-ABC

8

So reading the above post, Im guessing being directed to make a UJM account means you must make do it but allowing them to view is optional? My advisor seems to pressing me to do it for some reason.

Reply 32

OP

Original post by evantej

The DWP have not decided themselves. Universal Jobmatch (UJM) has been rushed through and does not comply with lots of legislation and has not been thoroughly assessed or tested.

Registering for UJM is optional. Your advisor can give you a direction to register to increase your employment chances; in the same way they could tell you to look at any employment website.

You do not have to give consent to the DWP to allow your advisor to have access to your account. If you do not consent then UJM is largely useless. Your advisor can ask you apply for certain jobs as usual, but without access to your account they can not validate what you have or have not been doing. In this case, you provide 'proof' as you would with any other job with the grey booklet.

If in any doubt always ask them to print out any jobs they ask you to apply for, that way you have a basis not to use UJM as you already have the information, and do not sign anything while you are there. Take it away with you. They have to get your written permission to do anything. It is pointless signing something under duress if you do not understand the implications of what you are signing, especially when it involves data protection or work programmes.

Thanks for the info.

I just went onto UJM and changed the permission settings in my profile.

My advisor will no longer be able to view my profile. To be honest I am happy to keep an updated record of notes on my job search activities through the system, but I would prefer the booklet.

There are a number of issues I currently have with the new system:

1) It is still extremely frustrating to use with the only distance setting that seems to actually give jobs within the set distance is if I set it to 2 miles. I have almost applied for jobs I cannot travel to because of the distance filter problem.

2) They have set up apply now system but employers have not had to submit job descriptions that give basic information on the role (even location) and when I struggle to locate information on the job, so there is the issue of applying blind to some roles.

3) The note system is limited to 250 characters for some stupid reason, which has meant for longer issues or job activity (recording the current stage of a grad scheme process can require 2 or more notes).

4) The message system is one way... This is an issue that really annoys me. If your advisor sends you a message through the system you should be able to reply.

5) My account is not saving searches unless I click recommended jobs (even then it spams the activity log).

6) One of my biggest issue with JSA is the rules limiting the time you can spend volunteering or in an educational programme if you were retraining. By having access to a system which requires you to upload a CV they will be able to keep tabs on any volunteering you are doing which of course means you have to fill out a form.

I mean for 6 there are ways round it and I have been using the "I only volunteer 5 hours a week" method when really I am volunteering a much longer time each week and covering other volunteers when ill. The volunteering is key retail experience which I have been doing for about 5 to 6 months in total, but I am not going to let the job centre tell me I can't do the volunteering. I also wanted to take up more volunteering, but if I add anything like that onto my CV through the new system they would know and I put my JSA at risk (of course their own work programmes are exempt from these rules).

7) Them being able to 'save jobs' for you to apply to. At least if they print off anything inappropriate I can just bin it and put it down on the activity list as applied for. However, the new system makes it easier for them follow up.

Reply 33

OP

Original post by 123-ABC

So reading the above post, Im guessing being directed to make a UJM account means you must make do it but allowing them to view is optional? My advisor seems to pressing me to do it for some reason.

If you have already registered you can change the permission under the profile tab.

If you really want to throw them off you can also change your email, as the email address is how they look up your account on the system.

From the UJM help section:

I authorise DWP to view my job data information
DWP can use your basic job data information to search for jobs on your behalf and save them for you. These jobs will appear on your 'Saved Jobs' page, as well as in your 'Job Results'. You can then view, apply or keep them saved for later. While this authorisation is not required, it is highly recommended to help make your job search more successful. Note that DWP will be able to see all your job searching activity, including your notes, feedback and saved searches.

I wonder if the advisers know if this is the case. I will leave mine locked to them and see what my advisor does.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 34

Original post by 123-ABC

So reading the above post, Im guessing being directed to make a UJM account means you must make do it but allowing them to view is optional? My advisor seems to pressing me to do it for some reason.

The reason you advisor is asking you to sign up is because the DWP wants 80% of current benefit recipients signed up by a certain time (the other 20% represents older people and those who have trouble accessing the internet).

Unless your advisor has given you a written mandate requesting that you sign up then you do not have to sign up. This is worth bearing in mind in general. Whenever they ask you to do something it is completely invalid unless they explicitly write down what you have to do, that what you have to do is mandatory, what evidence you have to provide to shown completion of the mandate, and potential consequences if you do not comply (i.e. being sanctioned). This must be written, but it can either be given to you then and there or posted to you. For example, say an advisor prints off a job and asks you to apply for it. If they do not follow correct procedure then it is not a mandate. If they sanction you for not applying for the job then any consequence is completely invalidated. The decision maker cannot accept the sanction because it is not legal. Simply put, you cannot be punished for something that they have no written evidence for. The verbal instruction is called a non-mandated activity.

The first point of the mandate, more important than writing it out properly, is actually '[e]nsur[ing] that the activity is reasonable in the participant’s circumstances'. You can use this to your advantage. If the advisor asks you to apply for a job that is two month's old, and almost certainly past the closing date, then you can say nothing. You just write down that you attempted to apply for the job as mandated but it was closed. On the other hand, you can challenge them then and there. If they try to give you something which requires access to your own vehicle or is in a completely different sector, and you have neither, then mention it. It would not be reasonable for them to mandate you to apply for these jobs given your circumstances.

The reason advisors do not do things properly is because mandates have to be followed up properly and it takes time, or because they simply do not know any better. The only time they use them properly - in my experience - is when organising appointments. In general mandates are seen as a way of getting unwilling jobseekers to comply.

If they mandate you to register for UJM then you have no real grounds to reject this request based on your circumstances. But they are only mandating you to register, not to actually use the website. Likewise, the following week they might mandate you to apply for a job on the website. If the job is reasonable then there is no reason for you to reject this. But they cannot, and I must stress this, they cannot mandate you to give the DWP access your account because that is illegal. They might attempt to get you to sign something that gives them permission, but do not (and these forms are probably illegal too, but that is another story). If you are in any doubt then take the form away and someone ask online for advice. This makes the whole thing a waste of time. They are simply mandating you to apply for a job which they cannot access 'proof' of because you have not given them access to look at your account. You provide proof in the way you always have, through the grey book.

Long winded, but I hope this has cleared things up for you.

Reply 35

username263907

It took me a while to register on it because at first you can't even see jobcentre in the list of services on gov.uk, just DEFRA and others, and then I had to open another window to find what I needed but it's basically the same as the old search, only this time jobcentre advisers can track when you've used it, and employers can find you instead of you finding employers, which is a good feature. I wish I'd seen this though

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/23/mi6-james-bond-advert :smile:

Reply 36

Original post by evantej

Most of your comment is irrelevant and rude. Nevertheless, this article provides a very short overview of some of the problems involved with Universal Jobsmatch. I have done 'an honest day's work'. And no, I did not neg you.

your arrogance is amazing, I notice that you have failed to address the key question and have just posted an editorial piece rather than actually evidencing your bold claims about illegality ...

your further posts talk about 'this is illegal' with regard to various parts of the operation of UJM but fail to evidence that to a satisfactory standard.

it's almost as if you just want to keep taking the money but not actually have to proveyou are doing anything.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 37

https://www.gov.uk/jobs-jobsearch

is the front page and includes a link to register ...

or for those currently claiming JSA did your JobCentre not provide you with this information at your signing closest toto19thNov

Reply 38

OP

Original post by evantej

If they mandate you to register for UJM then you have no real grounds to reject this request based on your circumstances. But they are only mandating you to register, not to actually use the website. Likewise, the following week they might mandate you to apply for a job on the website. If the job is reasonable then there is no reason for you to reject this. But they cannot, and I must stress this, they cannot mandate you to give the DWP access your account because that is illegal. They might attempt to get you to sign something that gives them permission, but do not (and these forms are probably illegal too, but that is another story). If you are in any doubt then take the form away and someone ask online for advice. This makes the whole thing a waste of time. They are simply mandating you to apply for a job which they cannot access 'proof' of because you have not given them access to look at your account. You provide proof in the way you always have, through the grey book.

Long winded, but I hope this has cleared things up for you.

I will keep this in mind. Thanks

Reply 39