Information cannot be destroyed, so what happens to our minds when we die?

As is the case with energy, information can never be destroyed (not even in black holes). So what happens to the information stored in our brains (our memories, our personalities etc) when we die? Where does it go?

Reply 1

claret_n_blue

17

That depends on what the information, memories, etc actually IS. If its just electrical impulses then this electricity can stop. The brain rots away and the energy is converted into other forms of energy.

It is destroyed

I just smashed a battery with a hammer.

Reply 5

ThePhilosoraptor

5

The only way information can never be destroyed is if all information exists in the noumenal sense and is merely instantiated in the physical. But if this is the case the destruction of any particular physical instantiation presents no problem so why would something have to happen to it when a specific brain died?

Reply 6

green.tea

18

Original post by Shruti2

Information, memories etc are stored in the brain of a person. When a person dies, the brain decays along with the rest of the body. Where do you think all the information goes then?

It does always exist at that point in time tho. You just stop it existing any more but you cant stop that it did exist, so it isnt really destroyed.

Reply 7

Dis i like

OP

Original post by manchesterunited15

It is destroyed

You realise that by making this claim you are challenging the validity of the third law of thermodynamics?

Reply 8

username234673

17

Tell that to a magnet and a hard drive. :colone:

Reply 9

green.tea

18

Original post by Dis i like

You realise that by making this claim you are challenging the validity of the third law of thermodynamics?

What does the law of thermodynamics say about setting fire to a dictonary?

Reply 10

hevlar.kelmet

2

Original post by Dis i like

You realise that by making this claim you are challenging the validity of the third law of thermodynamics?

That's not what the third law of thermodynamics states, otherwise it would be practically contradicting the second law of thermodynamics.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 11

manchesterunited15

Original post by Dis i like

You realise that by making this claim you are challenging the validity of the third law of thermodynamics?

no i'm not

It goes to Jesus.

OP

Original post by manchesterunited15

no i'm not

The third law of thermodynamics states: "The entropy of a system at absolute zero is typically zero, and in all cases is determined only by the number of different ground states it has."

The time evolution of a physical system is effected by applying some transformation to the state of the system at a given moment, such that, if we have a state describable by some string x at a given point in time, the state at a later point in time will be described by a certain function f(x) of that state. If now there is a function f^-1 we can apply to that evolved state to again get out the state x, i.e. if f^-1(f(x)) = x, no information has been lost.

Information cannot be destroyed.

Reply 14

TheHistoryStudent

11

As expected I came to a philosophy thread and haven't a clue what's being said/going on.

However, since I am interested in this (being slightly interested in Physics, even if, like Philosophy, I don not understand it), perhaps I will have a go at answering.

If we take information as being indestructible, due to the law of Thermodynamics (which, somebody correct me if I'm wrong... isn't it to do with Entropy, and something going from a state of order to a state of disorder?), then, when we die the information stored within us cannot be destroyed. However, particularly in the case of memory, what if that information in the form of a memory of an event is something which is shared between several human beings, as part of a collective memory which is then passed on to others in XYZ form (books, newspapers, education, the internet etc). Surely as in the case of entropy, even though the original form of the information is gone (i.e. a person's own memory of an event - the only metaphor I can think of is one from Wonders of the Universe where you have a sand castle in the desert being blown by the wind, representing the memory of an event in a single person's mind, the desert the collective memory, and the wind time), the collective memory (everyone's memory of an event) continues and is passed on until only a little is known about it, but the information itself is still there - i.e. it goes from a state of order to disorder - from good memory to poor memory, but the event which sparked the memory still happened, and the information still exists.

That then raises the further question, pertaining to information, as someone said above - is it a physical thing at all? And then a second question pertaining more to memory - do people have to remember an event for information about it to exist (i.e. take ww2 as an example, the event happened, it had effects on the whole world, but will it still have happened if no one remembers anything about it? say... 20 million years into the future? If it did still happen, despite no memory of it, then surely the information is physical, but doesn't need a living person to carry it - hence death is irrelevant to the destructibility of information, if it didn't well... then that implies a connection between information and something to store it/know about it, which means information can be destroyed if that container is lost... which if the above guy who mentioned the laws of Thermodynamics is right, is impossible.

Hell... I don't know... apologies if my post is incomprehensible - I rarely visit the philosophy forum because I just don't understand what you guys talk about, I also don't understand physics much (at all...) either, so I've got a double-whammy of ignorance in this one...

Good question though! :biggrin:

Reply 15

Good bloke

19

Original post by Dis i like

As is the case with energy, information can never be destroyed (not even in black holes). So what happens to the information stored in our brains (our memories, our personalities etc) when we die? Where does it go?

The bit in bold is the part where your thesis falls down. You'll have to prove that. It seems to me that information can be destroyed; it has nothing to do with thermodynamics.

Reply 16

ThePhilosoraptor

5

Original post by Dis i like

The third law of thermodynamics states: "The entropy of a system at absolute zero is typically zero, and in all cases is determined only by the number of different ground states it has."

The time evolution of a physical system is effected by applying some transformation to the state of the system at a given moment, such that, if we have a state describable by some string x at a given point in time, the state at a later point in time will be described by a certain function f(x) of that state. If now there is a function f^-1 we can apply to that evolved state to again get out the state x, i.e. if f^-1(f(x)) = x, no information has been lost.

Information cannot be destroyed.

I may be misunderstanding you, but I think the OP would respond that the function of x =/= x on the basis that the brain (alive) had held information and (dead) now does not. (I.e. these two states are clearly not equal, so if the formula is saying they ought to be then there's been a mistake somewhere)

Reply 17

Sir Fox

18

Original post by Dis i like

As is the case with energy, information can never be destroyed (not even in black holes). So what happens to the information stored in our brains (our memories, our personalities etc) when we die? Where does it go?

Sure it can be destroyed. Well, not the actual knowledge itself, but the storage. If you write a random number on a piece of paper and burn the paper, that's it. The information might still be in your memory, but the paper is gone.

In our brains information is stored in a biochemical/electrical way, if you die the brain rots and the tiny pieces which make up 'an information' disintegrate, therefore and since your mind is the only place where this specific information is stored, the information itself vanishes.

Reply 18

manchesterunited15

Original post by Dis i like

The third law of thermodynamics states: "The entropy of a system at absolute zero is typically zero, and in all cases is determined only by the number of different ground states it has."

The time evolution of a physical system is effected by applying some transformation to the state of the system at a given moment, such that, if we have a state describable by some string x at a given point in time, the state at a later point in time will be described by a certain function f(x) of that state. If now there is a function f^-1 we can apply to that evolved state to again get out the state x, i.e. if f^-1(f(x)) = x, no information has been lost.

Information cannot be destroyed.

nah mate

Reply 19

anony.mouse

15

Memories and thoughts aren't physical though. We dont understand them fully, only that they're transferred by electrical impulses.