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Goldman Sachs Internship

Bit of advice needed from anyone with some actual IB experience:

As I'm doing languages at uni, I take the third year out and have to go study or work abroad. For me, that means 6 months in Germany and 6 in Italy. Naturally, I see this as an ideal chance to rack up some work experience.

Goldmans has a a programme for this sort of thing, and it offers 6mths-1yr placements in the following divisions: Operations; Finance; Human Capital Management. The problem is that none of these are remotely front office, which is where I want to end up. In addition to these, I'll be going for spring and summer front office internships.

My questions then are:

1) Which is the best out of those 3 divisions?

2) Will I be pigeon-holed and have less of a chance at front office if I go on one of these placements? I.e. Should I go for it or do something else - there's an opp to go work for the FT in Germany, as well, although only as a language trainer.

3) Do you know of any 6-month front office placements in Germany or Italy? (Internships never last that long.)

Thanks for your advice in advance; much appreciated.

Reply 1

CityMonkey

11

fuglyduckling

Bit of advice needed from anyone with some actual IB experience:

As I'm doing languages at uni, I take the third year out and have to go study or work abroad. For me, that means 6 months in Germany and 6 in Italy. Naturally, I see this as an ideal chance to rack up some work experience.

Goldmans has a a programme for this sort of thing, and it offers 6mths-1yr placements in the following divisions: Operations; Finance; Human Capital Management. The problem is that none of these are remotely front office, which is where I want to end up. In addition to these, I'll be going for spring and summer front office internships.

My questions then are:

1) Which is the best out of those 3 divisions?

2) Will I be pigeon-holed and have less of a chance at front office if I go on one of these placements? I.e. Should I go for it or do something else - there's an opp to go work for the FT in Germany, as well, although only as a language trainer.

3) Do you know of any 6-month front office placements in Germany or Italy? (Internships never last that long.)

Thanks for your advice in advance; much appreciated.

I should make it clear at the start, I have no actual IB experience, but the following is what I've managed to pick up from talking to people working in IB and others...

1) I don't know the answer.

2) You won't have less of a chance, but it won't give you any sort of advantage. Generally, front office staff think back office staff are a waste of space and just doing monkey work. Thus, they have no respect for them or their work. Hence, saying you spent X months working in a back office is not going to impress any front office people. However, it certainly won't hurt your chances either, just not to use it as a way of getting an advantage basically. This is also reflected in people working full time in IBs' back offices; hardly any ever make it to the front office, once back office, always back office, even with an MBA, this is not my opinion but what I read numerous times on efinancialcareers.

Personally, I would do something which involves actual client face time in the country you go to, that would make you stand out as not many have done this sort of thing but also doesn't subject you to the prejudices of front office staff come interview time.

3) I'm sure a lot of banks do them. At the moment, JP are looking for a lot of people to do internships who speak European languages, although whether that is based in London or in respective countries I don't know. The good thing about internships on the continent also is that they are a lot more flexible as to internship length and time of commencement, wheras in London the internship season is basically the summer holidays. To be able to work for banks in front office in foreign countries, I would suspect requires a certain level of fluency and well only you can judge whether you have that. Just as a side note, I've heard of people put down languages on application forms and claim to only be able to talk to hold a conversation and then end up having entire interviews being carried out in that language, so take from that what you will about the fluency required.

Good luck.

Reply 2

pogel17

6

Hi,

I am in exactly the same position as you, i.e. being on a four year language course with the 3rd year out (this year).

While i think its great to be thinking about doing something IB related on you year abroad, i'm not sure its as feasible as you might think. Depending on your linguistic ability, it might be tough trying to work in a back office position speaking the local language, let alone a front office position. I'm going to Russia in September, but i'd never dream of being able to work in that kind of role unless i'd spent about 6 months there first.

By all means you might be able to do a Spring/Autumn internship in the UK or even abroad but you must be able to satisfy the university criteria of speaking the lnguage and being immersed in the culture of the languages you are studying. My advice would be to go on your year abroad to whichever country and make sure you get the best out of it in terms of learning the language and also getting some really great experiences. If you get any IB related work then great and if not, you can still do a summer internship at the end of that year abroad. Thats what i'm going to do. (Might be a bit difficult to get any applications done though from the middle of Siberia!)

Reply 3

CityMonkey

11

pogel17

Might be a bit difficult to get any applications done though from the middle of Siberia!)

Or subsequently get back for interviews and assessment centres!

Reply 4

Wrangler

2

LBC213

Generally, front office staff think back office staff are a waste of space and just doing monkey work. Thus, they have no respect for them or their work. Hence, saying you spent X months working in a back office is not going to impress any front office people.

I don't think this is entirely true. My main experience in IBs has been in the back office, with a little interlinking with front office and quants. Without wanting to blow my own trumpet, the people at Credit Suisse made it patently obvious that with my work experience and track record they'd gladly put me straight onto a grad training scheme (aimed at the front office).

I think it's about what you do with your time at a bank that counts. Impress a few people, it gets passed on to directors, who pass it on to other directors, who you speak to, who speak to other traders... it goes on. By the end of of my stint at CS, I've had meeting with several MDs: head of derivs IT Europe, and head of Global Marketing and Analytics (GMAG).

Certainly, a stint in the back office is not going to give you a golden ticket into the world of trading. But it adds a string to your bow, and you can make as much as you want from your time there. I knew very little about the world of investment banking before my time there - and I think the extra knowledge I've gained will be immensely beneficial.

:smile:

Fair enough.

I'm not denying that some of the back office work is mundane, and some of the people there less than mensa material. But that gives interns more of an opportunity to stand out (well, that's how I look at it).

:smile:

Reply 7

TheAP

9

fuglyduckling

Goldmans has a a programme for this sort of thing, and it offers 6mths-1yr placements in the following divisions: Operations; Finance; Human Capital Management. The problem is that none of these are remotely front office, which is where I want to end up.

I think Human Capital Management is a fancyway of saying HR. A middle office finance role wouldn't be too bad.

Reply 8

fuglyduckling

OP

2

Interesting opinions there. Thanks guys.

I'm torn between aiming to do something client-facing (in another sector) or back office IB work. I don't want to be pigeon holed but at the same time, I could make some good contacts, demonstrate and interest in the industry, and start to understand what the bank is about. If anyone else has any advice, I'd love to hear it!

Reply 9

fuglyduckling

OP

2

AFAIK: HCM = HR, Ops = Middle Office, Finance = Back Office

ops = back office

OP

TheAsianProdigy

ops = back office

Ah, too true! :wink:

At the moment, I'm thinking it'd be better to have a client-facing position in another industry than a back office one in IB...

Reply 12

TheAP

9

If you're considering doing a post grad, then working in the back office may be a good idea as it'll enable you to save alot of money, assuming Frankfurt roughly pays the same as London.