Starting PGDL at 48....

Afternoon all,
After some honest advice on potential career change. I'm currently an IT project manager for a high st bank and no longer get any joy out of that job. Been doing it (in various coding, managing roles) for 22 years and no longer have motivation to stay in that industry.

Law has appealed for a number of reasons - wont bore with details here, but in brief it's more than just an interest as I've gone through life. But also, I know it's only the first stage of a hard slog but the ability to do a PGDL to start a second professional career is appealing - it's not an option available for other careers.

I may take a year off to study or do PGDL part time over 2 years.

So the crux of the question. I'm currently 48 so I'm after advice, opinions, anecdotal feedback from anyone:

1. who has either been the same position - done conversion late and the challenges they found - getting training contracts, didnt get TC and what they did etc. Did you wind up having to fund your own SQE or equivalent ?

2. Anyone in the industry who has had older applicants for TC's etc and what they think when considering older candidates etc ? Difficulty finding placement with firm that will fund SQE ?

I'm really after the experience side for feedback. I've read older posts and general articles so I'm aware of the challenges I'd face. Trying to manage my own expectations in case worst case scenario I do the course and then nothing at the end. Just trying to be pragmatic around what I am wanting to do.

Please be as brutal as possible ! I know this isnt the lightest undertaking at the best of times !

Thanks in advance.

Nic - thank you so much for that post ! Found it really helpful and inspiring. I hadn't really looked at the MLaw as PGDL seemed like the more direct route. But will have a look into it now. Especially if the weighting allows some time/flexibility into carrying out supporting activities.

Sorry to reactivate a 2 week old thread but this caught my attention too. I've wanted to re-train as a solicitor since my late 20s and now aged 39 I think it's now or never! The firms I've spoken to so far have said they would consider an application for a training contract provided I had the SQE1 and 2 without needing a PGDL but I'm aiming at modest regional rather than national or city firms.

I currently work in the City and frankly I'm done with it. I also have a very rough idea (City solicitors feel free to explain why I'm wrong!) what City solicitors spend their early careers doing because I'm often their client and 99 times out of 100 I use City solicitors to write contracts I can't be bothered to write myself or because I know the answer to an issue but I want to partly transfer the risk of taking a decision with potential legal consequences from my firm on to theirs. I've never in 18 years working closely with City law firms ever engaged them in anything I would find interesting. The closest was when a firm of solicitors came in to educate us on tax avoidance laws. The money is exceptionally good though, or so I'm told.

What I would like to ask though is whether it is realistic for a 39 year old to enter the legal profession in a modest regional firm and make partner by 50? My concern is that although it's possible to become a solicitor at my age, age discrimination (and actually, to be fair, just a simple lack of time) would still limit me in how far I could take my career.

You may want to make your own thread for more replies.

It is possible to make partner within the timeframe you mention, and age discrimination probably won't be a factor in and of itself if you can fulfil what the firm is looking for -- which may be more on the bringing in and keeping clients side than on the legal practice side, very important to bear in mind and still not pointed out enough at law school. You can be a great lawyer and never make partner if you don't have the right contacts; in many firms, most people made up to partner are good at marketing and networking first and foremost.

As you correctly note, some of this will be down to the time you have to put into the career but a note of warning too: there is no guaranteed path to partnership, even if you put in the time and feel like you tick all the boxes. If you are flexible and you may make partner at some firm sooner or later, but not necessarily the one you train at, for example. However, bear in mind you might not make it at all and you may actually decide you don't want to because another path interests you more (so not necessarily a negative). Also, I am sure you have considered this, but it may be a question of your priorities and energy levels, these are different at 39 than at 23, quite obviously. Also, you may frequently be supervised by people younger and with less life experience and possibly even less business experience than you -- this may be no issue for you but I've seen a couple of older trainees struggle with this a bit.

(source: I am a solicitor and in my 40s...)

Thank you. This is a really good post and answers most of my questions so I suspect I won't need to open another thread!

It's no surprise to me when you suggest the partner's real skill is in bringing in business. It's much the same with managing directors at the bank I work for, although I guess we do have MDs that are strictly back office. It did cross my mind that my chance of making MD is slim to none so I shouldn't have too many hang ups about making partner! However, I think it's because I don't want to work for a goliath of the legal world that makes me more concerned that I have time to reach a similar level of seniority and pay as my current role (not necessarily a partner, but at least able to manage my own workload and supervised only by partners).

It also crosses my mind that the kind of law I want to work in is very different to the wholesale finance world I currently inhabit. Winning a client will be very different when it's individuals wanting help with their estate (I'm fairly certain I want to do Private Client law although Employment looks interesting too) because although there will still be longevity in the relationships, this won't be a case of managing 2 or 3 massive accounts but a great deal of smaller ones. So I suspect I will go into the profession with little to none of the right marketing skills!

What does concern me though is your last point. As a mature candidate, it does feel like a bit of a tightrope presenting yourself as both someone with skills and gravitas that takes a while to develop and also someone willing to be supervised by someone younger than them. I genuinely wouldn't have a problem being managed by someone much younger than me but I think proving it would be much harder. Do you have any tips on how to successfully persuade a recruiter of that fact? My concern is that as someone in banking who works with solicitors every day the reality is that I'm not going to enter this profession blind and I might even have had exposure to transactions the like of which my potential supervisor hasn't and some of these experiences might be worth talking about in an interview. However, I'm not stupid enough or arrogant enough to believe I know how to do a job better than someone who's finished their training and I've worked long enough to know age has little correlation to competence other than with our own younger selves! But how to convey that?

Hi AGW1983,

It sounds like you are giving the situation the consideration it needs. With this kind of understanding of the difficulties, I doubt you will struggle. As a mature student, I have seen have some mature students struggle with the fact that younger counterparts will often be as competitive as themselves, as well as with the fact that their years of experience do not necessarily hold a great deal of weight (particularly if moving into a completely new area). If you move into an area of law that you have experience in through a past career that will not be an issue.

You may not necessarily have a younger supervisor either but if you do, you will find that they will still be able to offer lots of support in other ways as your past experience will only provide background, not necessarily legal expertise. By being open to this, you will not have a problem convincing an employer that it will not be a problem.

As a mature student, I secured a training contract. It's a very competitive process but your experience may give you an advantage when it comes to people skills, task management, and presenting. I would still advise that you get involved with work placement schemes, mooting and other legal competitions- one of the issues you face as mature student is proving your commitment to the career change- taking part in these helps towards this.

Despite getting a training contract, I decided to change to the Bar and I have managed to secure pupillage. You may wish to consider which route is best for you- being used to self-management, would the self-employed route of becoming a barrister be more appealing? The Bar is incredibly competitive (even more so that the solicitor route) so this is something to bear in mind, I believe last years stats showed only 30% of mature students succeeded in getting a pupillage (there are reports on the BSB website). It's worth considering though.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you all the best with it. Career changing can be challenging but incredibly rewarding.

Nic
Student Ambassador at the University of Law

Afternoon all,
After some honest advice on potential career change. I'm currently an IT project manager for a high st bank and no longer get any joy out of that job. Been doing it (in various coding, managing roles) for 22 years and no longer have motivation to stay in that industry.

Law has appealed for a number of reasons - wont bore with details here, but in brief it's more than just an interest as I've gone through life. But also, I know it's only the first stage of a hard slog but the ability to do a PGDL to start a second professional career is appealing - it's not an option available for other careers.

I may take a year off to study or do PGDL part time over 2 years.

So the crux of the question. I'm currently 48 so I'm after advice, opinions, anecdotal feedback from anyone:

1. who has either been the same position - done conversion late and the challenges they found - getting training contracts, didnt get TC and what they did etc. Did you wind up having to fund your own SQE or equivalent ?

2. Anyone in the industry who has had older applicants for TC's etc and what they think when considering older candidates etc ? Difficulty finding placement with firm that will fund SQE ?

I'm really after the experience side for feedback. I've read older posts and general articles so I'm aware of the challenges I'd face. Trying to manage my own expectations in case worst case scenario I do the course and then nothing at the end. Just trying to be pragmatic around what I am wanting to do.

Please be as brutal as possible ! I know this isnt the lightest undertaking at the best of times !

Thanks in advance.

Hi,
Only just spotted this, dont use the site much anymore.
Short answer, yes I did start PGDL ! Started in Jan this year, doing part time weekend course at ULAW.

I made decision about a year ago. Had originally planned to start Sept 2022 but wound up on a major project which was going to take a lot of weekends to end of 2022.
Some ups and downs, got made redundant in Nov 2022 which really sealed the deal to want to start in Jan. I really wasn't enjoying IT so it was difficult to get motivated to apply for roles. However, near the end of my notice period the business side of my last project had a short term contract open up to end 2023 so that has suited me fine. 1. taking the pressure of finding a job and 2. getting some proper client facing business experience.

But onto what you want to know, how I'm finding the course. Main point- don't let age distract you. I am one of the oldest in my class of 20 but a good spread of ages from mid-20's up to late-40's. The class are a lovely bunch and we pull each other through the classes. There's less academic competition compared to undergrad. We share notes, hints, tips, ping each other when moots or side lectures come up etc. The university support system has been good, especially speaking to careers advisors. Very positive in terms of what older folk bring to table. The age factor has become one of my least worries. Join the Legal Cheek seminars on employment and career changing as they get some top notch recruiters from major firms. Got some really positive advice/

Under no illusions this is just a step and the slog for applying training contracts is yet to start.

If you go down this route don't underestimate the workload. I'm constantly chipping away at the reading. The bulk of the learning is self-guided using books and online material, then in-person workshops covering 4 units every 3-4 weeks. I find the weekends preceding the workshops are more or less tied up reading in prep. Then filling in gaps in the weekday evenings. But having a full time job means brain fried most evenings so not productive.

ULAW reckons its 25hrs studying per week. A slight exaggeration but not by much ! Only on one occasion was I not prepred for a workshop and I got no benefit. So now if I struggle for time I make sure I've had at least a cursory glance to participate. It's worth the effort as the benefit in being able to have meaningful discussions really consolidates the knowledge.

I was dithering between bar and solicitor but leaning towards solicitor. That decision may be made for me as I have no time to do the practice moots etc.

I'm now considering changing to do MA in law. It's simply a bolt on unit at end of the PGDL so if I dont wind up practicing I'll have a solid qualification to break into the legal world in a different role.

DM me if you want to discuss more.